Moving To Vegas To Play Poker

[chgocubs99 0]

Im new to this forum and all I can say is wow. THere is a bunch of BS posts on here. Sounds to me like a bunch of people who will never do anything in poker come in here and try and berate the poster and talk bunch of crap instead of actually providing some insight.Enough about that. I have tons of 1/2nl vegas experience at pretty much every casino in vegas since i live about 4 hrs away. MY advice to you is this. In order for u to have a good chance at success Id have about 15k saved up. The 1/2nl games are extremely soft. for those of you that dont think you can make a living playing 1/2nl optimaly I laugh at you. You are considered a poker pro If your sole income comes from poker and its enough to maintain the lifestyle you seek. I think u can easily beat these games buying in for 100$ altho i prefer to buyin for max. Raises ARENT 15$ in vegas the majority of players limp actually and then will call your 8bb raise with kj offsuit oop. If you cant beat these games then you shouldnt be playing for a living. I think i can avg about 15bb/hr no problem myself. All you do Is limp in every pot in position and wait to stack someone. Its that easy20 buyins is plenty to beat 1/2nl so 4k. Add your living expenses at 6 months would be about another 10k give or take to live comfortably. This is of course if your not working on the side because if you are and find a job that can pay off your bills and expenses then all u need is 20 buyins if ur a winning player

LOL this guy! These two are a match made in heaven. In the meantime, all of us that will "never do anything in poker" should probably leave this thread full of unbelievable, insightful posts like this and pretty much every response by the OP in this thread.

[chgocubs99 0]

That is one of my goals. I an epiphany recently on how important goals are. LOL .Obv I'll have to start at 1-2, but I'm confident I'll be able to beat games over 5-10NL. By my second year of consistent play I want to be playing 5-10. Hey VIck. Remember we did a cash transfer for FTP $ back in 07? I was working at the TCF bank in Montgomery. How have the internet pokers been treating you? Crushing the 100$ rebuys ? Rigggged, I think there was enough good information provided to call it a worthwhile thread for me. Some people look at post count (500 isn't a lot) and decide to post useless or highly sarcastic messages. And in very loose-passive 1-2 NL games you can play what would be considered a -EV preflop game and capitalize postflop. You're right about that. As for what I need to live comfortably, about 1000$ a month if I'm paying 500$ rent.

I could care less about your post count. I'm now posting useless, sarcastic messages since the thread has been a joke since someone suggested that shortstacking could be optimal/effective and then someone agreed with it.]

[JoblessBast 0]

I just beat a 5/10 game for like $1800 in about 4 hours. I bought in for $1500 and never went below that. I think that should be your plan....

I don't know if anyone is still discussing anything of importance here still but I'll try anyway...Was this at the Bellagio? How would you rate the 5/10NL games there? Have you played 5/10NL live elsewhere?How much $, bankroll and life, would you suggest for playing 2/5NL live full time?Thanks.

[TraptSteve 0]

LOL this guy! These two are a match made in heaven. In the meantime, all of us that will "never do anything in poker" should probably leave this thread full of unbelievable, insightful posts like this and pretty much every response by the OP in this thread.

Can you stop posting in this thread? You're being at troll at this point...

[chgocubs99 0]

Can you stop posting in this thread? You're being at troll at this point...

At this point? You must have missed my other 8500 posts, not much to most of them

[Acid_Knight 2]

I don't know if anyone is still discussing anything of importance here still but I'll try anyway...Was this at the Bellagio? How would you rate the 5/10NL games there? Have you played 5/10NL live elsewhere?How much $, bankroll and life, would you suggest for playing 2/5NL live full time?Thanks.

I've played 5/10 at Bellagio, Caesar's, Wynn, Red Rock, and The Venetian. They're usually really good.I'm really not gonna guess as to what bankroll you should have to play live poker for a living while living in Vegas.

[TraptSteve 0]

I've played 5/10 at Bellagio, Caesar's, Wynn, Red Rock, and The Venetian. They're usually really good.I'm really not gonna guess as to what bankroll you should have to play live poker for a living while living in Vegas.

When I was at the Venetian, there was a table right next to the cage & the entrance to the high limit room. Judging from the stacks I noticed from a casual glance they seemed to be much bigger than the rest of the room.What game was that?Oh yeah, how do I use the 1-2$ /hr comps?

[powerpoker 0]

When I was at the Venetian, there was a table right next to the cage & the entrance to the high limit room. Judging from the stacks I noticed from a casual glance they seemed to be much bigger than the rest of the room.What game was that?Oh yeah, how do I use the 1-2$ /hr comps?

The venetian will spread anything so im assuming they usually have the 10-20 NL games back there. What color were the majority of chips on the table. 1-2/2-5, they use red and white chips and cash obv. 5-10 They use a salmon colored $10 chips and i believe in the 10-20 game they use a brigt orangeish color chips and cash. I moved out here 3.5 years ago and I did play for my only source of income and i only played 1-2 with some 5-10 O8 mixed in. I played for a bunch of months but the town is what drove my bankroll down. Having 100 dollar parlays on the world cup is not smart yet thats what i would do becuase the money at 1-2 was coming in to easy and I never "worked" for myself before so i took advantage of the freedom. I have a job now. If you going to be playin at the venetian you get 1 dollar an hour at the 1-2 game. When you get there have them swipe your card, when you leave have them clock you out. If you get hungry you can ask them to look up how much you have toward comps. Whatever they tell you, lets say you have 50 bucks, you tell them you want 20 dollar comp to a restaurant to eat. They will do the rest and you will get a slip of paper and give that to your waiter/waitress and thats about all there is to it.Only certain restaurants in there will accept comps from the poker room. Grande Lux, noodle asia, and the food court. If you have any other question feel free to PM me. I play 1-2 on my days off at the mirage 2x a week. I was playin 2-5 at the V for about 5 months but it was on a limited roll and i was takin a shot to run it up. Went well for a while then the games got a little tougher and i hit a bad run so im back to the low low stakes. Hope any of this helps. 1-2 players generally suck, usually only have 1 good player at my table on avg.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Also, the amount of hands they're playing will factor in as well. Going from 400/hr to maybe 30/hr often has an impact on their play.

Agree. I have seen this in action. ^^^^

Honestly I'm not sure you even know what you are talking about. I wasn't implying that micro stakes online players are going to move to Vegas. I was merely saying that I think that most online micro grinders are better than live 1/2 grinders. Perhaps that's debatable (I don't think so, but you do so I'll agree to disagree on this). The people that WILL be more likely to move to Vegas are the 1/2 to 5/10 grinders, the people that have already decided to try and make a living from poker online but will no longer have the ability to do so (unless they move to another country, which likely isn't an easy task). These SSNL and MSNL players are likely going to be miles ahead of the people you are used to playing with.

The live game is a little different with the added "human" element. I won't say online players can't make the adjustment because many do, but I have seen some struggle with the environment and being face to face with opponents.Both live and online games can be very tough or very soft at almost any level. Just depends on the players at the table.

[TraptSteve 0]

Agree. I have seen this in action. ^^^^ The live game is a little different with the added "human" element. I won't say online players can't make the adjustment because many do, but I have seen some struggle with the environment and being face to face with opponents.Both live and online games can be very tough or very soft at almost any level. Just depends on the players at the table.

Snamuh also believes that if a group of msnl online players came to Vegas... the trickle-down effect would make 1-2 & 2-5 unplayable.

Is it impossible for you to understand that when there are more predators further up on the food chain, there's less food available to trickle down to the bottom?

FWIW You've confused how food chains work.Assuming a group of mid-stakes NL online players moved to Vegas (even at once) it wouldn't dramatically affect the profitability of the smaller games. Why? More games in the lower levels (ie bottom of the food chain) vs the amount of msnl players dropping down (predators at the top of the food chain).I can create a visual model if it would help...

[Snamuh 0]

Snamuh also believes that if a group of msnl online players came to Vegas... the trickle-down effect would make 1-2 & 2-5 unplayable.FWIW You've confused how food chains work.Assuming a group of mid-stakes NL online players moved to Vegas (even at once) it wouldn't dramatically affect the profitability of the smaller games. Why? More games in the lower levels (ie bottom of the food chain) vs the amount of msnl players dropping down (predators at the top of the food chain).I can create a visual model if it would help...

I didn't say unplayable. I said it would become more difficult. From the sound of this post, your poker experience sounds fairly limited. The fact that you even asked the initial question implies this. And I believe you probably will struggle to make a living from poker in Vegas. Honestly without trying to be rude, from this post you sound like some typical live fish that plays poker infrequently and wants to take his shot at it. How much poker experience do you have? (Forgive my ignorance here, I'm just curious)I also understand how food chains work. How are there necessarily going to be more games at the bottom? If something were to happen to online poker, you'd be more likely to have an influx of good players into Vegas, whereas the amount of fish likely wouldn't change. Even if there were more games, they would be tougher, because the amount of fish at each table would be less than it is now, and you'd have more regulars scrambling for the money.

[Snamuh 0]

Agree. I have seen this in action. ^^^^ The live game is a little different with the added "human" element. I won't say online players can't make the adjustment because many do, but I have seen some struggle with the environment and being face to face with opponents.Both live and online games can be very tough or very soft at almost any level. Just depends on the players at the table.

If a bunch of solid online pros were no longer able to play online and instead were forced to play live for a living, they might struggle for a day, maybe a few days at most. Honestly though, I think they would adapt better than you think. I doubt you ever read the challenge thread but several of the guys there go play live occasionally in Vegas, CAZ, Commerce, or wherever, and they make a killing and are often LOLing about live pros.The fact is that online players are going to be seeing WAY more situations regularly than a live player is and this will be a large advantage to them, regardless of the human element.

[BaseJester 1]

I agree mostly with Snamuh with respect to online players. Playing lots of hands is a huge advantage, as is post-game analysis through hand histories and software. I can see two things being potential disastrous issues for a player with little live experience:

• Giving up blatant tells
• Getting involved in too many hands due to boredom

And those are both things that force of will or training can overcome. Suppose you had a new poker player to train for success in live cash games and 4,000 hours of his time to work on his game. How would you divide his time between the following?

1. Playing in a B&M
2. Studying
3. Playing online

I'd say 500 B&M, 750 Studying, and 2,750 online.

[TraptSteve 0]

Check out my responses on page 8, Snamuh. I doubt you're going to see that many take the trip. Especially winning 1-2 NL & even 2-4 NL online players. The ones who would be most likely to move to Vegas are the mid-stakes players who played professionally and can't find their game in their surrounding B&M casinos.I've played since 2003. Mostly live with some online games in between. Mainly at a poker game ran by a former Vegas dealer twice a week. !-2 Nl on Wednesdays, and 2-5 NL on Mondays. Once charity games became available I played in those with some of the regulars.I had questions about a bankroll because I never kept one. Normally just spent the money I won because I never had any goals for it... living rent free w/ a decent paying job. I purchased a car, payed cell phone bills, purchased whatever.Which is why I am not going out there until I save some more money. I'm also going to try to get a small BR online and force myself to maintain/build it at micro-stakes for practice.

[Nashtak 0]

Just a quick question. Beside fun and experience, any other reasons to move to Vegas to play Poker? Can't one just player 1/2 NL table at a local casino and just have the same results, money-wise?

[mtdesmoines 3]

Just a quick question. Beside fun and experience, any other reasons to move to Vegas to play Poker? Can't one just player 1/2 NL table at a local casino and just have the same results, money-wise?

What's "local?"Do you have to drive 50 miles to "work" every day? Is there a game every time you arrive? How many games are there?How much new money gets loaded on the tables every night? Is that new money ^^^ dead money? How many players are drunk? What quality of life is available locally?Vegas draws people because there's a lot of tables, a lot of drunks and gamblers, a lot to do, etc. ... Also, you can become anonymous in Vegas. Most "local" rooms I've played in, there are around five "regulars" at the table. They know each others' styles. They soft-play each other. They share info in the hallway. Being in a place like Vegas eliminates a lot of that. If a table sucks, move. There's 1,000 more. Locally, you have to sit it out.

[Whatever 1]

First off you don't want to be like a lot of people in this forum who have a family and dream that they could do something like this.

I can't imagine ever wanting to play 1/2 NL for a living in a casino.

[TraptSteve 0]

What's "local?"Do you have to drive 50 miles to "work" every day? Is there a game every time you arrive? How many games are there?How much new money gets loaded on the tables every night? Is that new money ^^^ dead money? How many players are drunk? What quality of life is available locally?Vegas draws people because there's a lot of tables, a lot of drunks and gamblers, a lot to do, etc. ... Also, you can become anonymous in Vegas. Most "local" rooms I've played in, there are around five "regulars" at the table. They know each others' styles. They soft-play each other. They share info in the hallway. Being in a place like Vegas eliminates a lot of that. If a table sucks, move. There's 1,000 more. Locally, you have to sit it out.

Yeah, it almost borders on collusion. At a Riverboat Casino in Joliet, Il (I want say the name, but there are only 2 in Joilet, one of which spreads poker), there is only one 2-5 NL table and a 3-6 & 5-10 FL. The game I played late at night had a couple of tourists and bad player overall.What concerned me was a couple of players in their mid-20's who sat next to each other. They're regulars and I've played with one of them at a home game. He happened to be the big winner that night. Anyway, there was one hand in particular that reeked of collusion.Both players are in the blinds, I raise Ace-rag to 25$ from the cutoff after it's folded to me. Both players call.Flop : A - K -10 rainbow Checks all around - FWIW just focus on the turn playTurn: 10 which creates a flush drawSb checks, BB bets 50, Hero calls, Sb Raises to 250The BB at this point does a hollywood then says out loud as if I wasn't even in the hand "I'm folding a 10".I muck, and the Sb takes the pot. About a minute later he told me he had flopped "Mississippi... broadway... ace high straight" then put me me on AQ.20 minutes pass without any major hands from them before they both leave for a dinner break. The one breached basic poker etiquette by discussing his hand with players still to act. The BB's line looks EXTREMELY fishy. Who checks twice OOP with a straight, esp on that turn?His buddy claiming to have folded a ten with me still to act makes it look worse. To me it was a blatant move between them. I will not return to that game.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Yeah, it almost borders on collusion.

Umm, which side of the collusion border do you mean? Because to me it IS collusion.

[Nashtak 0]

What's "local?"Do you have to drive 50 miles to "work" every day? Is there a game every time you arrive? How many games are there?How much new money gets loaded on the tables every night? Is that new money ^^^ dead money? How many players are drunk? What quality of life is available locally?Vegas draws people because there's a lot of tables, a lot of drunks and gamblers, a lot to do, etc. ... Also, you can become anonymous in Vegas. Most "local" rooms I've played in, there are around five "regulars" at the table. They know each others' styles. They soft-play each other. They share info in the hallway. Being in a place like Vegas eliminates a lot of that. If a table sucks, move. There's 1,000 more. Locally, you have to sit it out.

Right.. thanks for the reply.

[blackmont 0]

Im sure this thread is beaten to death already. but i'l add some points.How come no one has mentioned the fact that many vegas casino's have larger buy-ins at 1/2 some dont even have 1-2.I mean if you plan to go there and play 1-2. you're limited to which casinos. and then furthermore some of those casino's have 1-2 max of 300. so a 100 buy in is pretty ridiculous.Anyways, here is the gist of it. You need to CRUSH live 1/2 to even consider it. and when i say crush, i mean you can no longer get action from other regulars, and the pit boss' are telling you to move up limits and take shots.honestly, if you're good enough and log the hours, and dont run horrible, you can average 1000 a week @ live 1/2 Now, if you need to pay rent, car, insurance, food etc from your winnings. i'd say forget it. just stop now. You really should only be grinding 1/2 because you are actually a winning 2/5 and 5/10 player. who needs to get back to that level, so is living expense free while building a roll.theres also another fact no one has mentioned about live fulltime play. We all know that many people play a few times a month, beat the games and assume they can turn pro.but theres a whole different life style that you;re unaware of. for example, as a live pro, at those limits your most profitable times are evenings and weekends.if a game is good, you NEED to stay in it. you'll be eating at the casino a lot. and thus. spending money on food. not to mention any other distractions found in vegas.

[TraptSteve 0]

Im sure this thread is beaten to death already. but i'l add some points.How come no one has mentioned the fact that many vegas casino's have larger buy-ins at 1/2 some dont even have 1-2.I mean if you plan to go there and play 1-2. you're limited to which casinos. and then furthermore some of those casino's have 1-2 max of 300. so a 100 buy in is pretty ridiculous.Anyways, here is the gist of it. You need to CRUSH live 1/2 to even consider it. and when i say crush, i mean you can no longer get action from other regulars, and the pit boss' are telling you to move up limits and take shots.honestly, if you're good enough and log the hours, and dont run horrible, you can average 1000 a week @ live 1/2 Now, if you need to pay rent, car, insurance, food etc from your winnings. i'd say forget it. just stop now. You really should only be grinding 1/2 because you are actually a winning 2/5 and 5/10 player. who needs to get back to that level, so is living expense free while building a roll.theres also another fact no one has mentioned about live fulltime play. We all know that many people play a few times a month, beat the games and assume they can turn pro.but theres a whole different life style that you;re unaware of. for example, as a live pro, at those limits your most profitable times are evenings and weekends.if a game is good, you NEED to stay in it. you'll be eating at the casino a lot. and thus. spending money on food. not to mention any other distractions found in vegas.

My mother is telling me to move out and take shots... does this count?k srsly a mod needs to kill this thread off

[blackmont 0]

Again, you fail at reading comprehension. One four hour session was how long I struggled during my initial exposure to live poker, not my only live experience. I played about 12 sessions over two weeks (live poker is boring imo). And honestly, one four hour winning session was all I needed to form an opinion. Half the people at my table were absolutely atrocious, including the people that weren't complete droolers.

define "struggle" wouldnt your live play statements contradict you as someone who promotes online play/players being superior in skill for their levels?I mean, its sample size and winning over large number of hands that you believe makes online players that much better, correct?and now you're making judgment after 2 weeks of play? sounds kinda silly.And you basically strengthen the OP's argument when you say (live poker is boring imo) Being able to play 1 table for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and profit at a high win rate without slipping up due to boredom or cold cards is a skill. a skill not everyone who wins online can pickup.The opposite however is a online player who plays 10 tables at once, and beats small stakes for large proft because of his multi tabling. Thats also a skill.and there are both players playing in both versions of the game.

[mr_druid 0]

if you live in Chicago, either play horseshoe or take the train to Milwaukee & play @ potowatomi. Play those rooms for 6-8 months and see how you do. It will give you a better idea where you are at as a live player. Tom.

[MovingIn 0]

Without getting too deep into this discussion, I must add that you typically need to show a consistent profit over 500-1000 hours to know if you can definitely beat a live game. This goes for both snamuh (given his claim that he can beat live poker based on a handful of winning hours) and the OP.