Moving To Vegas To Play Poker

[TraptSteve 0]

did you move yet, or are you going to be a pussy?

rofl I guess you don't have to pay rent when you live in a car...

[TrueAce13 18]

TP/MM obv. I would definitely take the advice of Acid, he is smart

[JoblessBast 0]

I played the 2/5NL game at the Hard Rock recently. It has a $2000 max buy in which is pretty sweet imo. Of the notables that I remember in the game, there was:1 dude who admitted he was "still learning the game" and was god awful and sitting with about $1100 that he luckboxed his way into.1 MMA guy who just got back from a fight and was going to a party soon and dumped about $1K in about 15 minutes.1 dude who played these hands:-I raise to $25 with QhQs, he calls. Flop Jc9h3h. I bet $50 he calls. Turn 6h. I check, he bets $100, I shove, he calls with AdJs. He spikes the 3 outer.-I limp with 2h4h, he raises to $30, button calls and I call. Flop: Ah3h3d. I check, he bets $60, button folds, I call. Turn 5h. He bets $150, I raise to $300, he calls. River 8s, I push my last $200, he folds 7h7s face up.2 regs.I also played the 1/2NL game there and half the table were regs, and all the dealers knew them.

[Snamuh 0]

Something to think about. You claim that online poker is going to be gone soon. Assuming this happens (which I don't think it will), where do you think a lot of online grinders are going to go? A fair amount of them are going to head to Vegas to try and make a living off the live games. And they're likely going to be more skilled than you are (not trying to be a dick but most online players that grind 25 NL and above are actually pretty good players). This is going to dry up the Vegas games even more and should make them a lot tougher and is going to make your plan a lot less likely to succeed.

[chgocubs99 0]

First I posted this...

Sorry, but it is a fact that your optimal winrate is higher buying in full than it is on a short stack, assuming you are moderately competent at poker. If you aren't moderately competant, your winrate will be negative either way.

Then this in response to someone saying something similar to what I said above....

Yes. Not debatable.

Then this...

Though you don't care about the answer to the question and are instead saying this to challenge my "authority" on the subject, I'll do my best to answer anyway.Show me one professional poker player who buys in shortstacked. Does that "prove" anything? When 400 NBA players shoot a jump shot in basically the same manner...well I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing.Optimal online winrate would be probably 8-10ptbb/100 hands played, one-tabling 1/2NL (not that you really care about the numbers). I could do the math and translate that to $$$/hr live, but I won't waste either of our time since neither of us care. I've never seen a graph of someone shortstacking for more than 3ptbb/100. I don't have links, so don't ask. It's simply the product of soaking up information over the course of several years on poker forums, some of which, believe it or not, I actually learn from. If people weren't so stubborn, maybe they would too, instead of passing off some pipe dream fallacy as fact when, in reality, they really have no clue what they are talking about.Pick up on which people know what they are talking about when it comes to serious poker material, and which ones don't. With something as simple and obvious as whether shortstacking is an effective way for an above-average player to maximize winrate, you won't have to look very far.

If you can get through my sarcasm, 2-3 are actually valid points here....

There are three key points that I am going to try to drive home to you...okay 4.1) You are responding to a professional poker player that has years of experience, also happens to live in Vegas and play live, and is one of the more advanced poker thinkers on this site, and is giving you free, accurate, and worthwhile information THAT YOU ASKED FOR with "Meh". Just so you're aware.2) Quit bringing up the few hundred or so hands you played in the middle of summer last year. They're irrelevant.3) Quit bringing up the WSOP for Christ's sake. It doesn't matter, at all.4) I don't care what you do so ignore 1-3 if you want.

And then you went this route.

I know exactly who Acid is and, TBH, was hoping he would get around to this thread. I may not post here regularly, but I'm not new to the forum either. His input confirmed some of concerns.Which is why I typed "meh"... then said the amount of money I was initially going to move with was too small. I was agreeing with his critique. Not shrugging off his advice.Maybe you should use context clues next time. Cub fans annoy me Oh and FWIW... I know an easy game when I see one, and the 1-2 games I played in were JUICY!

Like I said, GL to you.

[antistuff 0]

rofl I guess you don't have to pay rent when you live in a car...

squat and roll baby squat and roll

[Shark527 0]

The cubs franchise is just a support system for losers. "THIS IS OUR YEAR!!"... very optimistic theme, just too stupid to realize.

[TraptSteve 0]

First I posted this...Then this in response to someone saying something similar to what I said above....Then this...If you can get through my sarcasm, 2-3 are actually valid points here....And then you went this route.Like I said, GL to you.

You skimmed over my OP and concluded "this is another 'going to vegas' post" without bothering to answer my 2 questions.Every post you made there aside from your 1-4 list was directed at other members. Seeing as you weren't addressing me or my questions, I ignored your side-debate on the merits of buying in for 50bb vs 100+bb.So, you have like 6+ posts in my thread and not one in regards to my two original questions. It is funny how forgot to include this...

Absolutely. My answer is I don't have the first damn clue. Maybe he was an early riser and liked to pack in the morning. And maybe he didn't have any friends. I'm an educated man, but I'm afraid I can't speak intelligently about the travel habits of William Santiago. What I do know is that he was set to leave the base at 0600. Now, are these the questions I was really called here to answer? Phone calls and foot lockers? Please tell me that you have something more, Lieutenant. These two Marines are on trial for their lives. Please tell me their lawyer hasn't pinned their hopes to a phone bill.

Apparently that was intended to have a point as well. You are a troll and an annoying Cubs fan.

[TraptSteve 0]

TP/MT obv. I would definitely take the advice of Acid, he is smart

FYP, agreed with the restJoblessBast, thanks for posting this.

Something to think about. You claim that online poker is going to be gone soon. Assuming this happens (which I don't think it will), where do you think a lot of online grinders are going to go? A fair amount of them are going to head to Vegas to try and make a living off the live games. And they're likely going to be more skilled than you are (not trying to be a dick but most online players that grind 25 NL and above are actually pretty good players). This is going to dry up the Vegas games even more and should make them a lot tougher and is going to make your plan a lot less likely to succeed.

I would be happy to have an increase in player pool. I hope 25 nl players play in a live 1-2 game. Most of small stakes NLHE games online are preflop poker.I think that the majority of players online (up to 1-2 nl) make better preflop decisions than the average live 1-2 player. The problem is the games are usually deeper live, so their 3-betting tactic won't have quite the same effectiveness of when they're doing it with 100 max bb. Also, the amount of hands they're playing will factor in as well. Going from 400/hr to maybe 30/hr often has an impact on their play. Again, FWIW I'd love to see micro-stakes NL players in a 1-2 game.

[Snamuh 0]

I would be happy to have an increase in player pool. I hope 25 nl players play in a live 1-2 game. Most of small stakes NLHE games online are preflop poker.I think that the majority of players online (up to 1-2 nl) make better preflop decisions than the average live 1-2 player. The problem is the games are usually deeper live, so their 3-betting tactic won't have quite the same effectiveness of when they're doing it with 100 max bb. Also, the amount of hands they're playing will factor in as well. Going from 400/hr to maybe 30/hr often has an impact on their play. Again, FWIW I'd love to see micro-stakes NL players in a 1-2 game.

Honestly I'm not sure you even know what you are talking about. I wasn't implying that micro stakes online players are going to move to Vegas. I was merely saying that I think that most online micro grinders are better than live 1/2 grinders. Perhaps that's debatable (I don't think so, but you do so I'll agree to disagree on this). The people that WILL be more likely to move to Vegas are the 1/2 to 5/10 grinders, the people that have already decided to try and make a living from poker online but will no longer have the ability to do so (unless they move to another country, which likely isn't an easy task). These SSNL and MSNL players are likely going to be miles ahead of the people you are used to playing with.

[TraptSteve 0]

Honestly I'm not sure you even know what you are talking about. I wasn't implying that micro stakes online players are going to move to Vegas. I was merely saying that I think that most online micro grinders are better than live 1/2 grinders. Perhaps that's debatable (I don't think so, but you do so I'll agree to disagree on this). The people that WILL be more likely to move to Vegas are the 1/2 to 5/10 grinders, the people that have already decided to try and make a living from poker online but will no longer have the ability to do so (unless they move to another country, which likely isn't an easy task). These SSNL and MSNL players are likely going to be miles ahead of the people you are used to playing with.

You honestly think MSNL players will bother with 1-2 NL? I don't. And I do agree that SSNL players will be better than the average 1-2 live player. I even said so in my response.Obviously the game would be tougher if it was suddenly transfused with 1-2 online players. It would still be exploitable and profitable - there will still be an occasional bad player or two at a table. You have to agree that online players not used to the pace of live games can struggle initially. I've seen this happen all the time to friends...

[Snamuh 0]

You honestly think MSNL players will bother with 1-2 NL? I don't. And I do agree that SSNL players will be better than the average 1-2 live player. I even said so in my response.Obviously the game would be tougher if it was suddenly transfused with 1-2 online players. It would still be exploitable and profitable - there will still be an occasional bad player or two at a table. You have to agree that online players not used to the pace of live games can struggle initially. I've seen this happen all the time to friends...

You don't seem to think things through. No, most online players will attempt to play higher. Unfortunately not everyone will be able to compete at the higher levels because the amount of regs will increase and the amount of fish will stay the same, resulting in some players playing lower than they'd prefer to. As the games higher up get progressively difficult, people will move down. Each level will then get harder. The games overall will inevitably be much tougher.Regarding your second statement...wanna know how long I struggled at live 1/2 when I went to Vegas? One four hour session. I had never played live poker before. It was my 21st birthday a few months back. I was disappointed to have only made like 65.00 in that session. Few if any decent online players will struggle to beat current live games beyond a few sessions. Honestly, it's not difficult to adjust to live play, especially at the lower games.

[TraptSteve 0]

You don't seem to think things through. No, most online players will attempt to play higher. Unfortunately not everyone will be able to compete at the higher levels because the amount of regs will increase and the amount of fish will stay the same, resulting in some players playing lower than they'd prefer to. As the games higher up get progressively difficult, people will move down. Each level will then get harder. The games overall will inevitably be much tougher.Regarding your second statement...wanna know how long I struggled at live 1/2 when I went to Vegas? One four hour session. I had never played live poker before. It was my 21st birthday a few months back. I was disappointed to have only made like 65.00 in that session. Few if any decent online players will struggle to beat current live games beyond a few sessions. Honestly, it's not difficult to adjust to live play, especially at the lower games.

I think you are making a pretty big assumption that most small/mid-stakes players will move to Vegas. Keep in mind there is a good portion of online players who can't play in casinos due to their age. Also, many younger college students will decide to pursue their degree and seek careers in that field. Midstakes players may have families/homes as well as careers outside of poker preventing them from doing this.Even the people who play professionally with no restrictions/responsibilities keeping them from moving to Vegas may decide to stay & play where they live if the games are good enough.Also, I like how you based your opinion from one winning 4hr session.

[Snamuh 0]

Also, I like how you based your opinion from one winning 4hr session.

Again, you fail at reading comprehension. One four hour session was how long I struggled during my initial exposure to live poker, not my only live experience. I played about 12 sessions over two weeks (live poker is boring imo). And honestly, one four hour winning session was all I needed to form an opinion. Half the people at my table were absolutely atrocious, including the people that weren't complete droolers.

[TraptSteve 0]

One four hour session was how long I struggled during my initial exposure to live poker, not my only live experience. I played about 12 sessions over two weeks (live poker is boring imo). And honestly, one four hour winning session was all I needed to form an opinion.

Ok, I'm going to highlight the main points since this is becoming a cyclical arguement.1. Middle stakes online players will not move down to 1-2 NL live. The 5-10 pros (even 2-5) would not waste their time playing 1-2 for a living. Members who play mid-stakes on this forum said they'd never bother playing 1-2 live. The senario you suggested is just highly unlikely.2. Again, I like how you formed your opinion in first winning live session.

[Snamuh 0]

Ok, I'm going to highlight the main points since this is becoming a cyclical arguement.1. Middle stakes online players will not move down to 1-2 NL live. The 5-10 pros (even 2-5) would not waste their time playing 1-2 for a living. Members who play mid-stakes on this forum said they'd never bother playing 1-2 live. The senario you suggested is just highly unlikely.2. Again, I like how you formed your opinion in first winning live session.

Is it impossible for you to understand that when there are more predators further up on the food chain, there's less food available to trickle down to the bottom? Let me break it down. Group of MSNL winners come to Vegas to play 5/10 to 10/20. Marginal winners in that game currently are no longer able to beat those games and are forced to drop down to 2/5. 2/5 games get tougher. Same thing happens in 2/5 game. 1/2 becomes tougher as a result.

[king1305 0]

I still don't get how cubs44 is a troll when you're complaining about cubs99?

[TraptSteve 0]

Is it impossible for you to Let me break it down. Group of MSNL winners come to Vegas to play 5/10 to 10/20. Marginal winners in that game currently are no longer able to beat those games and are forced to drop down to 2/5. 2/5 games get tougher. Same thing happens in 2/5 game. 1/2 becomes tougher as a result.

Clearly, you continue to overestimate a key point: The amount of MSNL players that will will flock to Vegas in relation to the amount of games available in Vegas.You do realize that there are casinos on the strip that feature primary 1-2 & 2-5 NL? Lets throw out a generous estimate: 20-30 MSNL players decide, all at once mind you, to migrate to Las Vegas and take on the 5-10+ games. The games would be saturated with talent and the weakest of the regular player pool (pro's/semi-pro's - excluding recreational players with no bankroll requirements) would have to drop down.Now, lets make another generous assumption that about 20 regular 5-10 players have to drop down.Considering the amount of 2-5 games spread compared to 5-10 and up, the increase in overall/collective difficulty would be marginal. There will still be many other 2-5 games to choose from, for both regulars & players moving down in levels. Odds are the 1-2 games would rarely find a 2-5 player dropping down.

understand that when there are more predators further up on the food chain, there's less food available to trickle down to the bottom?

Your simple 'trickle-down' senario fails because it doesn't account for the increased amount of games at the smaller levels. Obviously, the profitability of 1-2 games would be virtually unaffected by an influx of 5-10+ players.

[TraptSteve 0]

I still don't get how cubs44 is a troll when you're complaining about cubs99?

Cubs44 is cooZ. I think someone lumped him with cubs99 and I didn't seperate the two. Honestly though, you'd understand the WhiteSox/Cubs dynamic if you're from the area.

[BigRob1107 0]

dude why don't u build up to like 6k online playing 25nl that would take you like 2 months so you can go play on a decent roll and save money working in the mean time. Also playing online teaches you about fundamental concepts that will help you crush live games IMO. bets sizing, hand ranges, board texture etc.

[Vick12 0]

I lol'd....

[Acid_Knight 2]

I just beat a 5/10 game for like $1800 in about 4 hours. I bought in for $1500 and never went below that. I think that should be your plan....

[riggggged 0]

Im new to this forum and all I can say is wow. THere is a bunch of BS posts on here. Sounds to me like a bunch of people who will never do anything in poker come in here and try and berate the poster and talk bunch of crap instead of actually providing some insight.Enough about that. I have tons of 1/2nl vegas experience at pretty much every casino in vegas since i live about 4 hrs away. MY advice to you is this. In order for u to have a good chance at success Id have about 15k saved up. The 1/2nl games are extremely soft. for those of you that dont think you can make a living playing 1/2nl optimaly I laugh at you. You are considered a poker pro If your sole income comes from poker and its enough to maintain the lifestyle you seek. I think u can easily beat these games buying in for 100$ altho i prefer to buyin for max. Raises ARENT 15$ in vegas the majority of players limp actually and then will call your 8bb raise with kj offsuit oop. If you cant beat these games then you shouldnt be playing for a living. I think i can avg about 15bb/hr no problem myself. All you do Is limp in every pot in position and wait to stack someone. Its that easy20 buyins is plenty to beat 1/2nl so 4k. Add your living expenses at 6 months would be about another 10k give or take to live comfortably. This is of course if your not working on the side because if you are and find a job that can pay off your bills and expenses then all u need is 20 buyins if ur a winning player

[TraptSteve 0]

I just beat a 5/10 game for like $1800 in about 4 hours. I bought in for $1500 and never went below that. I think that should be your plan....

That is one of my goals. I an epiphany recently on how important goals are. LOL .Obv I'll have to start at 1-2, but I'm confident I'll be able to beat games over 5-10NL. By my second year of consistent play I want to be playing 5-10.

I lol'd....

Hey VIck. Remember we did a cash transfer for FTP $ back in 07? I was working at the TCF bank in Montgomery. How have the internet pokers been treating you? Crushing the 100$ rebuys ? Rigggged, I think there was enough good information provided to call it a worthwhile thread for me. Some people look at post count (500 isn't a lot) and decide to post useless or highly sarcastic messages. And in very loose-passive 1-2 NL games you can play what would be considered a -EV preflop game and capitalize postflop. You're right about that. As for what I need to live comfortably, about 1000$ a month if I'm paying 500$ rent.

[dreamcrusher28 0]

I'm pretty sure that's a gimmick account. At least I hope it is.