Nut Flush Draw

[trystero 0]

Literally 3rd hand at the table, only "read" on villain is that on the first hand he open limped UTGOTF I felt my hand was too strong in a BvB to fold, and OOP it was one of those '**** it I'm all in' momentsAnyone find a fold or do you also shove? If you call what are your plans in the hand?Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flowMP ($9.65)Button ($6.20)Hero (SB) ($24.75)BB ($33.35)UTG ($14.90)Preflop: Hero is SB with A, Q1 fold, MP calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1, BB calls $0.75, 1 foldFlop: ($2.25) 7, 8, 5(3 players)Hero bets $1.75, BB raises to $7, Hero raises to $23.75 (All-In)

[mtdesmoines 3]

Literally 3rd hand at the table, only "read" on villain is that on the first hand he open limped UTGOTF I felt my hand was too strong in a BvB to fold, and OOP it was one of those '**** it I'm all in' momentsAnyone find a fold or do you also shove? If you call what are your plans in the hand?Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flowMP ($9.65)Button ($6.20)Hero (SB) ($24.75)BB ($33.35)UTG ($14.90)Preflop: Hero is SB with A, Q1 fold, MP calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1, BB calls $0.75, 1 foldFlop: ($2.25) 7, 8, 5(3 players)Hero bets $1.75, BB raises to $7, Hero raises to $23.75 (All-In)

what are you beating that the BB flips over? I think our draw is prob too thin to do this move vs an unknown

[No_Neck 0]

yeah I think you definitely over played this hand I would probably just fold the flop, you aren't getting paid off if you hit another spade most of the time and with a coordinated board like that he could easily have two pair or a straight especially if he limped UTG

[litlebullet 0]

ipits and immediately go wtf was i thinking.

[NoBBiR 0]

what are you beating that the BB flips over? I think our draw is prob too thin to do this move vs an unknown

I don't think 'what we're beating' is the point. We're not 'beating' anything he's flipping over, but we have a lot of outs against a lot of hands.Having said that, we don't even close to have enough equity against his flop raising range to shove this flop. The best hand you can hope he has is A8 or something. He has a ton of two pair, sets, straights, flushes. We basically NEVER have two overs. I also hate shoving monotone flops with just the naked one card NFD. When we do this, and our opponent has anything, the first hand they put us on is the naked NFD since they don't have the Ace.

[mtdesmoines 3]

I don't think 'what we're beating' is the point. We're not 'beating' anything he's flipping over, but we have a lot of outs against a lot of hands.Having said that, we don't even close to have enough equity against his flop raising range to shove this flop. The best hand you can hope he has is A8 or something. He has a ton of two pair, sets, straights, flushes. We basically NEVER have two overs. I also hate shoving monotone flops with just the naked one card NFD. When we do this, and our opponent has anything, the first hand they put us on is the naked NFD since they don't have the Ace.

replace what I said with this because it's pretty much what I was thinking.

[SGFULTON83 0]

I don't think 'what we're beating' is the point. We're not 'beating' anything he's flipping over, but we have a lot of outs against a lot of hands.Having said that, we don't even close to have enough equity against his flop raising range to shove this flop. The best hand you can hope he has is A8 or something. He has a ton of two pair, sets, straights, flushes. We basically NEVER have two overs. I also hate shoving monotone flops with just the naked one card NFD. When we do this, and our opponent has anything, the first hand they put us on is the naked NFD since they don't have the Ace.

This pretty much sums it up, I agree 100%.

[JaNnN 0]

Ok at this point we already have pushed and our opponent has called.-What would our win-percentage be if our opponent has a pair of T's or J's.-What would our win-percentage be if our opponent has a 6-7 suited hand.Just wondering.Thanks in advance,Jan

[trystero 0]

yeah I thought I had overplayed it too - villain calls with KcKh and I turn the 6s, fading the straight flush chopIt's one of those spots where I hate every option - folding seems weak when we COULD have 15 outs, calling is absurd, and shoving is one of those 'wtf was I thinking moves' Ultimately I said, it's blind vs blind, my hand has decent equity, so I went with a straight-out semi-bluffWhat do you do with QsQh?

[mtdesmoines 3]

yeah I thought I had overplayed it too - villain calls with KcKh and I turn the 6s, fading the straight flush chopIt's one of those spots where I hate every option - folding seems weak when we COULD have 15 outs, calling is absurd, and shoving is one of those 'wtf was I thinking moves' Ultimately I said, it's blind vs blind, my hand has decent equity, so I went with a straight-out semi-bluffWhat do you do with QsQh?

I'd be so pissed if I were the villain.Maybe I'm still seething because this four flush shit happened to me about about 10 times in a week first week of Nov.

[trystero 0]

Ok at this point we already have pushed and our opponent has called.-What would our win-percentage be if our opponent has a pair of T's or J's.-What would our win-percentage be if our opponent has a 6-7 suited hand.Just wondering.Thanks in advance,Jan

With the full 15 outs we're in great shape, actually a favorite assuming he doesn't hold a spade. Against combo draws we're a ~3:2 underdog. Against the actual hand, kings, we're also a slight underdog.I don't want to be called here, like ever, so my play is mostly a bluff. I think it takes a decent hand to call our raise, and if he does call we're not in terrible shape; against two pair we're a little better than 2:1 - and if he does have a hand like he actually did, we're effectively racing. The board's so coordinated, though, that a fold MAY be best, but I think it's still close. With the NFD and two overs we just have so much equity; even against a set, we're 28% to win. I should also have some fold equity here...there's already $11 in the pot, too, so it'd be helpful if someone could run the EV numbers on this shove against his calling range. Besides, I deserve to get away with a little tilt now and then. I had been getting bled to death in Stud hi, so when I opened up a NLHE table I was in the mood to gamble and play a big pot.

[AimHigher 0]

With the full 15 outs we're in great shape, actually a favorite assuming he doesn't hold a spade. Against combo draws we're a ~3:2 underdog. Against the actual hand, kings, we're also a slight underdog.I don't want to be called here, like ever, so my play is mostly a bluff. I think it takes a decent hand to call our raise, and if he does call we're not in terrible shape; against two pair we're a little better than 2:1 - and if he does have a hand like he actually did, we're effectively racing. The board's so coordinated, though, that a fold MAY be best, but I think it's still close. With the NFD and two overs we just have so much equity; even against a set, we're 28% to win. I should also have some fold equity here...there's already $11 in the pot, too, so it'd be helpful if someone could run the EV numbers on this shove against his calling range. Besides, I deserve to get away with a little tilt now and then. I had been getting bled to death in Stud hi, so when I opened up a NLHE table I was in the mood to gamble and play a big pot.

It sucks now because I've read the result, but the fact that he open limped UTG one hand ago and is now raising a C-bet might weight his range towards stronger hands. Have you stoved your equity against his range as a whole?

[dapokerbum 0]

what are your thoughts on just calling the flop raise and reevaluating the turn?

[No_Neck 0]

what are your thoughts on just calling the flop raise and reevaluating the turn?

I think this is pretty bad because we are putting in wayyyyy to much money hoping that we hit, and are almost never getting paid off when we do. Your implied odds have to be way higher.

[dapokerbum 0]

I think this is pretty bad because we are putting in wayyyyy to much money hoping that we hit, and are almost never getting paid off when we do. Your implied odds have to be way higher.

So at that point it is either fold or go all in?Yuck, I guess I would fold.

[No_Neck 0]

So at that point it is either fold or go all in?Yuck, I guess I would fold.

clearly the right answer imo

[Solar 0]

Weird. I probably shove depending on mood, his bet timing or what day of the week it is. pretty close imo. I think kings is a really weird thing for him to show up with here, would have expected a 3-bet pf from kings. To me his raise size does seem to indicate an overpair/A8/two pair. He's trying to price you out. He is scared of the flush. Could just be basing that of results though... grrr. I don't mind either raise or fold..

[mtdesmoines 3]

Weird. I probably shove depending on mood, his bet timing or what day of the week it is. pretty close imo. I think kings is a really weird thing for him to show up with here, would have expected a 3-bet pf from kings. To me his raise size does seem to indicate an overpair/A8/two pair. He's trying to price you out. He is scared of the flush. Could just be basing that of results though... grrr. I don't mind either raise or fold..

"Trapping." It's all the rage at lower limits.

[Balloon guy 158]

What's your play if you're the pocket kings on that flop?Is his $7 raise the right amount?Or should he shove to close the door to draws?Me I call flop, and make decision about hand on turn.Is that too passive?

[mtdesmoines 3]

What's your play if you're the pocket kings on that flop?Is his $7 raise the right amount?Or should he shove to close the door to draws?Me I call flop, and make decision about hand on turn.Is that too passive?

Actually, I think the KK played his hand OK, except maybe calling the all in.

[NoSup4U 0]

I lol'd at folding here, especially bvb. IPITS. (he probably has less 'air' here than I'm used to, but he probably also has more top pair, overpair hands than I'm used to, most of which we're favorites against)Mark