Live Poker Etiquette Question

[Pivvy2001 0]

quick question regarding etiquette at a live game (in a casino, not a home game, if that matters at all)in a limit hand involving only two players, where each street features a bet by Player A and a call by Player B, if A bets the river and then mucks as soon as B calls, is it bad etiquette for player C (not in the hand) to ask to see B's handin case that wasn't clear..... only A and B are in the hand on the river..... A bets and B calls..... A mucks and B waits to drag the pot and doesn't show cards..... what is the etiquette for another player, C, regarding asking to see B's hand?

[bdc30 0]

He's allowed to do so, but it's poor etiquette and he'll hopefully be mocked by the other players at the table.

[mase_gotsem 0]

id say show me your hand in a jokingly manner and hope he does .. but if he doesnt want too he shldnt have too since A mucked . its bad etiquette if you force him too show and you werent in the hand

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

quick question regarding etiquette at a live game (in a casino, not a home game, if that matters at all)in a limit hand involving only two players, where each street features a bet by Player A and a call by Player B, if A bets the river and then mucks as soon as B calls, is it bad etiquette for player C (not in the hand) to ask to see B's handin case that wasn't clear..... only A and B are in the hand on the river..... A bets and B calls..... A mucks and B waits to drag the pot and doesn't show cards..... what is the etiquette for another player, C, regarding asking to see B's hand?

The only reason, Etiquette-wise, that you ever should "need" to see someone's hand is because you think there's som manner of cheating going on. It's your right, as a player who was dealt in, to be able to ask to see any hand that went to show down, even the one that gets mucked. But it's considered bad form.

[WhatArunAA 0]

The only reason, Etiquette-wise, that you ever should "need" to see someone's hand is because you think there's som manner of cheating going on. It's your right, as a player who was dealt in, to be able to ask to see any hand that went to show down, even the one that gets mucked. But it's considered bad form.

dead on.

[sandwedge 30]

As a dealer, I see this rule abused on a regular basis. BigD, as whatarunaa said, is dead on. You shouldn't ask to see a mucked hand unless you suspect something. I do have a couple of stories...One night, a player sat down to my table as someone asked to see another player's hand. The new player looked up and said, "That's disrespectful. If anyone here asks to see a hand that I muck, I'll consider it a sign of disrespect". Now, I know this player pretty well, and while he's one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, he's also built like a heavyweight boxer. Nobody "disrespected" him that night, or any other that I know of.As a dealer, if someone asks to see the mucked hand, I tap in on the muck to kill it before I show it. Otherwise, it may be the winning hand and problems will ensue. About a month ago, I had two players go all in on the turn in a 2-5nl game. On a board of xxTJK, player A announced "I have two pair, and showed TJ. Player B mucked face down. Another player asked to see the mucked hand, so I tapped it to the muck and turned over AQ. Player B had just thrown away a $700 winner. I was probably the sickest person at the table, since player B averages >$15 per tip, and player A averages <$1 per tip.

[Pivvy2001 0]

As a dealer, I see this rule abused on a regular basis. BigD, as whatarunaa said, is dead on. You shouldn't ask to see a mucked hand unless you suspect something. I do have a couple of stories...One night, a player sat down to my table as someone asked to see another player's hand. The new player looked up and said, "That's disrespectful. If anyone here asks to see a hand that I muck, I'll consider it a sign of disrespect". Now, I know this player pretty well, and while he's one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, he's also built like a heavyweight boxer. Nobody "disrespected" him that night, or any other that I know of.As a dealer, if someone asks to see the mucked hand, I tap in on the muck to kill it before I show it. Otherwise, it may be the winning hand and problems will ensue. About a month ago, I had two players go all in on the turn in a 2-5nl game. On a board of xxTJK, player A announced "I have two pair, and showed TJ. Player B mucked face down. Another player asked to see the mucked hand, so I tapped it to the muck and turned over AQ. Player B had just thrown away a $700 winner. I was probably the sickest person at the table, since player B averages >$15 per tip, and player A averages <$1 per tip.

Thanks for the answers (BigD put it pretty succinctly). I knew that it is bad etiquette to ask to see a mucked losing hand. This was just the first time that I had ever seen a situation in which the winner of the pot didn't table cards either (and correspondingly, the first time that I had seen someone get upset about that and insist that the winner table the cards.Is the etiquette better, the same, worse if the person who lost the hand also being disrespectful if they ask to see the hand (I assume the answer is yes and that they should have just tabled their cards if they wanted to see).....

[psujohn 0]

in a limit hand involving only two players, where each street features a bet by Player A and a call by Player B, if A bets the river and then mucks as soon as B calls, is it bad etiquette for player C (not in the hand) to ask to see B's hand

If the entire hand has been contested heads up it's definitely poor etiquette. Now if there was a 3rd player in the hand who folded on the river and you had noticed a betting pattern like this from these two guys you have a reason to ask to see both hands.BTW at Borgata they would make player B turn up his hand. It's a really bizarre house rule they have that I've actually had confirmed by a floor because the exact situation happened to me. On river I check, villain bets, I call, villain mucks and dealer explains I have to turn up my hand even though I'm the only person left with live cards.

[chgocubs99 0]

If anyone asks this to me, I reach into the muck, grab my cards, and head to the parking lot with them and leave.

[BaseJester 1]

BTW at Borgata they would make player B turn up his hand. It's a really bizarre house rule they have that I've actually had confirmed by a floor because the exact situation happened to me. On river I check, villain bets, I call, villain mucks and dealer explains I have to turn up my hand even though I'm the only person left with live cards.

I think all of AC is that way. Bally's & Harrah's are the same, at any rate.

[rawkodd 0]

if the cards actually hit the much the point is moot...and player c is a douche

[Ship_itt 0]

He's allowed to do so, but it's poor etiquette and he'll hopefully be mocked by the other players at the table.

agreed.. if i were the player that mucked, i would ask player C to show his cards everytime he tried to muck for the rest of the time he was at the table..

[Largetotals 0]

my noobishness is showing but what does tapped it into the muck mean?

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

my noobishness is showing but what does tapped it into the muck mean?

Okay, so there's a big pile of discard cards and unused cards in a live game. That's the muck. When a hand has hit the muck, it's considered officially dead. When a dealer "taps the cards"to the muck, they are taking a player's discarded hand, touching it to the muck to *kill" the hand, and then flipping it over, to show what the hand was.Also, on an unrelated note, I think people get way too upset about other people asking to see their hand. Online, I look at every single hand that goes to show down to see what people had. I know it's a different game, or what ever, but people shouldn't take it so personally. Rules of etiquette change, and I think eventually it will be no big deal to ask to see someone's hand.

[nutzbuster 7]

quick question regarding etiquette at a live game (in a casino, not a home game, if that matters at all)in a limit hand involving only two players, where each street features a bet by Player A and a call by Player B, if A bets the river and then mucks as soon as B calls, is it bad etiquette for player C (not in the hand) to ask to see B's handin case that wasn't clear..... only A and B are in the hand on the river..... A bets and B calls..... A mucks and B waits to drag the pot and doesn't show cards..... what is the etiquette for another player, C, regarding asking to see B's hand?

The only reason, Etiquette-wise, that you ever should "need" to see someone's hand is because you think there's som manner of cheating going on. It's your right, as a player who was dealt in, to be able to ask to see any hand that went to show down, even the one that gets mucked. But it's considered bad form.

dead on.

As a dealer, I see this rule abused on a regular basis. BigD, as whatarunaa said, is dead on. You shouldn't ask to see a mucked hand unless you suspect something. I do have a couple of stories...One night, a player sat down to my table as someone asked to see another player's hand. The new player looked up and said, "That's disrespectful. If anyone here asks to see a hand that I muck, I'll consider it a sign of disrespect". Now, I know this player pretty well, and while he's one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, he's also built like a heavyweight boxer. Nobody "disrespected" him that night, or any other that I know of.As a dealer, if someone asks to see the mucked hand, I tap in on the muck to kill it before I show it. Otherwise, it may be the winning hand and problems will ensue. About a month ago, I had two players go all in on the turn in a 2-5nl game. On a board of xxTJK, player A announced "I have two pair, and showed TJ. Player B mucked face down. Another player asked to see the mucked hand, so I tapped it to the muck and turned over AQ. Player B had just thrown away a $700 winner. I was probably the sickest person at the table, since player B averages >$15 per tip, and player A averages <$1 per tip.

all this.But don't be too upset...if he insta mucked you: A) know he was full of shit, and B ) is prolly now tilting a little.Advantage you.

[uncooper 1]

...in a 2-5nl game...B averages >$15 per tip,

Unless he tips like once every 1000 hands, doesn't this make the game unbeatable for him?

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Unless he tips like once every 1000 hands, doesn't this make the game unbeatable for him?

don't know how much live poker you play, but for many people playing live, "beating the game" isn't their number 1 priority.

[chgocubs99 0]

agreed.. if i were the player that mucked, i would ask player C to show his cards everytime he tried to muck for the rest of the time he was at the table..

Don't stoop to his level

[cujo33 0]

What do you say to someone in this situation, because its happended to me before at a home game.Friend is a real sloppy chipstacker, and doesn't get the concept of having big denomonations in the front. Anyway friend bets.I ask, "How much you got left?"Friend says, "I don't need to tell you."

[nutzbuster 7]

What do you say to someone in this situation, because its happended to me before at a home game.Friend is a real sloppy chipstacker, and doesn't get the concept of having big denomonations in the front. Anyway friend bets.I ask, "How much you got left?"Friend says, "I don't need to tell you."

DONKTASTIC!

[Zephire 0]

Now don't quote me on this, but I had a situation before in the 2-5 game at the Horseshoe, where I called a guys bet on the river and he insta-mucked. Someone asked to see my hand, and the dealer said that since the called hand mucked, I didn't have to show my hand, which I gladly didn't, and thought that I wouldn't have to show.I've kinda adapted this rule for when I'm dealing as well. I really think that since they mucked, you shouldn't be forced to show a winning hand, sine them mucking equals you winning anyway, regardless of your two cards.Mucked hand heads up = other guy winning. Cards don't matter at that point. I dunno?

[psujohn 0]

Mucked hand heads up = other guy winning. Cards don't matter at that point. I dunno?

Yes. But winning doesn't mean you don't have to show. At least in AC.