Auto Bail Out?

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

lol @ the UAW refusing to cut wages. I guess they'd rather all their members be unemployed than make what they would at Toyota.Aren't we done with unions yet?

Market is going to show what it thinks of the Senate today.It isn't going to be good. Could be a 1,000 point day.

[hblask 1]

Barney Frank: OK, I withdraw my comment about voting for him. What an idiot and a liar. It's not about welfare for corporations, and it's not about welfare for the employees. It's about welfare for politicians, in the form of billions of dollars of campaign contributions. And he's one to talk about lack of leadership, mister "there is no problem with Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac". As for the bailout falling apart, right result, wrong reason. The R's balked because they didn't get their form of central planning, not because they have a principled aversion to letting politicians engage in central planning. Time to google "how to start a militia".

[hblask 1]

$*&@#^$*&^(*& (#*&$@ Excuse me while I go google "how to overthrow a government"NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The Bush administration said Friday that it will consider using the money set aside to help banks and Wall Street to rescue the auto industry.The statement -- a change in the administration's long-held position -- might be the last best chance to keep troubled automakers General Motors and Chrysler LLC out of bankruptcy.The defeat of a $14 billion bailout plan in the Senate late Thursday left the administration little choice but to tap the $700 billion bailout approved by Congress in October, the Troubled Asset Relief Program or TARP, according to White House Press Secretary Dana Perino."Given the current weakened state of the U.S. economy, we will consider other options if necessary -- including use of the TARP program -- to prevent a collapse of troubled automakers," Perino said in a statement. "A precipitous collapse of this industry would have a severe impact on our economy, and it would be irresponsible to further weaken and destabilize our economy at this time."General Motors (GM, Fortune 500) has argued that it needs $4 billion by the end of the month or else it will run out of the money it needs to continue to operate. It said it'll need an additional $6 billion in the first two months of 2009. Chrysler said it needs $4 billion early next year.The Bush administration and congressional Democrats agreed earlier this week to use funds originally set aside to help the auto industry start producing more fuel efficient cars to fund $14 billion in loans. But while the measure passed the House Wednesday night, Republican opposition in the Senate kept it from winning the 60 votes it needed to bring the matter up for a vote

[All_In 0]

how can anyone support the repub. party when it was them who defeated the auto bailout?can't u people see that this industry supports MANY more? that potentially MILLIONS of people will be negatively affected?15 bill for 3 companies vs. (for example) 150 bil for AIG???it's all politics.and it's all in the wrong forum.

[nutzbuster 7]

how can anyone support the repub. party when it was them who defeated the auto bailout?can't u people see that this industry supports MANY more? that potentially MILLIONS of people will be negatively affected?15 bill for 3 companies vs. (for example) 150 bil for AIG???it's all politics.and it's all in the wrong forum.

I see what you did there.This whole thing is a joke. This country is officially in the toilet.I love how those bastards tried to attach riders onto this bill for raises for judges.Yeah...that's how you bail out a company and save the world...RAISES FOR JUDGES!!!!seriously... W T F ?

[El Guapo 8]

We need to issue a gag order on Harry Reid.He said something to the effect of "The stock markets are really going to show their disapproval of this tomorrow".This is the same idiot who stood up in front of the Senate a few months ago after the AIG debacle and said "one of the largest US insurance companies is about to go bankrupt, and you all know who it is" Which was completely unfounded and that statement single-handedly caused every major insurance stock to go down 30-40% that day. ONE DAY!He should be brought up on criminal charges for the things he has done in the last couple months.

[Jeepster80125 0]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLLOOLLLLLOLOLOLOOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLThat statistic is so incorrect is boggles my mind.Way to vet your sources.

ok.I thought it was an interesting link, so I posted it. If you'd like to post something that shows I'm wrong, I'd be happy to admit that I'm incorrect.Deal?Perhaps they meant that war cost 288 billion in 1944 dollars, and whatever that amount would be today? Over a trillion?

how can anyone support the repub. party when it was them who defeated the auto bailout?can't u people see that this industry supports MANY more? that potentially MILLIONS of people will be negatively affected?15 bill for 3 companies vs. (for example) 150 bil for AIG???it's all politics.and it's all in the wrong forum.

[All_In 0]

I see what you did there.This whole thing is a joke. This country is officially in the toilet.I love how those bastards tried to attach riders onto this bill for raises for judges.Yeah...that's how you bail out a company and save the world...RAISES FOR JUDGES!!!!seriously... W T F ?

didn't realize i subliminally put that in! maybe they should attach an internet gambling provision into this???

[JustDoIt 10]

$*&@#^$*&^(*& (#*&$@ Excuse me while I go google "how to overthrow a government"NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The Bush administration said Friday that it will consider using the money set aside to help banks and Wall Street to rescue the auto industry.The statement -- a change in the administration's long-held position -- might be the last best chance to keep troubled automakers General Motors and Chrysler LLC out of bankruptcy.The defeat of a $14 billion bailout plan in the Senate late Thursday left the administration little choice but to tap the $700 billion bailout approved by Congress in October, the Troubled Asset Relief Program or TARP, according to White House Press Secretary Dana Perino."Given the current weakened state of the U.S. economy, we will consider other options if necessary -- including use of the TARP program -- to prevent a collapse of troubled automakers," Perino said in a statement. "A precipitous collapse of this industry would have a severe impact on our economy, and it would be irresponsible to further weaken and destabilize our economy at this time."General Motors (GM, Fortune 500) has argued that it needs $4 billion by the end of the month or else it will run out of the money it needs to continue to operate. It said it'll need an additional $6 billion in the first two months of 2009. Chrysler said it needs $4 billion early next year.The Bush administration and congressional Democrats agreed earlier this week to use funds originally set aside to help the auto industry start producing more fuel efficient cars to fund $14 billion in loans. But while the measure passed the House Wednesday night, Republican opposition in the Senate kept it from winning the 60 votes it needed to bring the matter up for a vote

It is amazing that the politians caused this mess with Democrats being more responsible than Republicans. But yet they all are reelected and nobody is held responsible for their action. They all should be fired!!!!!!This SNL Skit is right on, of course it was taken out of their archives but it is out there.http://msunderestimated.com/SNLBailoutSkit.wmv

[Don Giovanni 0]

the government should be pushing GM's demise, not trying to prevent it. the only suitable government plan considering GM would be to make some popcorn and sit outside their headquarters while laughing and watching them go under. thats what we should have done to the banks too. then we could take the 700 billion and use it to actually make a difference. amazing that the government is so retarded that they can find a way to waste 700 billion dollars, an amount that could fix just about every problem in the world if used correctly.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

ok.I thought it was an interesting link, so I posted it. If you'd like to post something that shows I'm wrong, I'd be happy to admit that I'm incorrect.Deal?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...7/MNBVVL9GK.DTLOnly World War II was more expensive. That four-year war - in which 16 million U.S. troops were deployed on two fronts, fighting against Germany and Japan - cost about $5 trillion in inflation-adjusted dollars.http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/big-b...s-bigger-bucks/...the entire cost of World War II borne by the United States: $3.6 trillion, adjusted for inflation (original cost was $288 billion).http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_did_Wor...y's_dollarsWW 2 cost $2091.3 billion in 1990's dollarshttp://books.google.com/books?id=EasEioJQH...2&ct=resultWorld War II was far and away the most expensive for the American Economy in the twentieth century. In 1982 dollars World War II cost $57.4 billion dollars per month of the war.etc

Perhaps they meant that war cost 288 billion in 1944 dollars, and whatever that amount would be today? Over a trillion?

Where do you get 288 billion? Didn't your article say 4.1 billion, or am I an idiot?

[Jeepster80125 0]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...7/MNBVVL9GK.DTLOnly World War II was more expensive. That four-year war - in which 16 million U.S. troops were deployed on two fronts, fighting against Germany and Japan - cost about $5 trillion in inflation-adjusted dollars.http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/big-b...s-bigger-bucks/...the entire cost of World War II borne by the United States: $3.6 trillion, adjusted for inflation (original cost was $288 billion).http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_did_Wor...y's_dollarsWW 2 cost $2091.3 billion in 1990's dollarshttp://books.google.com/books?id=EasEioJQH...2&ct=resultWorld War II was far and away the most expensive for the American Economy in the twentieth century. In 1982 dollars World War II cost $57.4 billion dollars per month of the war.etcWhere do you get 288 billion? Didn't your article say 4.1 billion, or am I an idiot?

The original article I linked to did, and I looked it up when you called me on it.You're right though. I don't verify every single statistic in every story I read, I doubt you do either. good catch.

[Sal Paradise 57]

Where do you get 288 billion? Didn't your article say 4.1 billion, or am I an idiot?

YOU'RE AN IDIOT YORKE.I think it was a misprint and they meant 4.1 trillion.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

The original article I linked to did, and I looked it up when you called me on it.You're right though. I don't verify every single statistic in every story I read, I doubt you do either. good catch.

All in a day's work. Yorke....AWAY!!!!

[Balloon guy 158]

All in a day's work. Yorke....AWAY!!!!

The clue was that it was a democrat war.Those dems are always overpaying for things

[FCP Bob 1,320]

The Canadian and Ontario Governments have agreed to provide support to the Detroit 3 if the US does. It will be 20% of the amount that the US Gov't provides which is in line with the 20% of North American auto production that is done here in Ontario.http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081212/...tdown_autos_cda

TORONTO - The federal and Ontario governments have agreed to provide up to $3.3 billion for the Canadian auto industry, but the bailout comes with the potential for thousands of job cuts. Federal Industry Minister Tony Clement said late Friday the two Canadian governments have agreed to provide the equivalent of 20 per cent of the US$14 billion that the Bush administration is considering in emergency aid for General Motors, Ford and Chrysler. Clement said the main restructuring will be done in the United States, but Canada is also prepared to provide help to save the troubled industry, which employs hundreds of thousands of people in direct and spinoff jobs in Ontario. "What we are signalling here tonight, both the governments of Ontario and Canada, is that we want to be part of the solution as well and it will be commensurate with the production that takes place here in Canada . . . about 20 per cent." Clement told reporters. That works out to about US$2.8 billion or C$3.3 billion at current exchange rates, of the proposed US$14 billion American bailout package. The Detroit Three currently employ more than 30,000 people at car assembly and parts plants in Ontario. If the U.S. carmakers cut that number of jobs in North America as they restructure their huge operations, a 20 per cent proportional cut in Canada could mean the loss of 6,000 direct jobs and more in spinoff employment at suppliers and other businesses. GM, Ford and Chrysler have already cut thousands of jobs from their Ontario operations under earlier streamlinings, including GM plans to close a pickup truck plant in Oshawa in May and a transmission plant in Windsor in 2010. Clement emphasized that the aid package is not a "blank cheque" for the industry. "This is about conditional support based on their long-term plans, based on them working with the parts suppliers, based on the unions being at the table, based on the United States continuing to be part of the solution, so there are some conditions," he said. The minister added that Canadian support is contingent on the U.S. passing its own aid package, but added he expects the Bush administration to announce its own bailout plan "very soon" after the U.S. Senate rejected an earlier proposal. "The federal and the Ontario governments are prepared to move quickly if and when the Americans approve a support package," Clement said. Clement wouldn't give any details Friday of how the funding would be divided between the federal and Ontario governments. The move by Canadian politicians comes after the U.S. Senate late Thursday rejected a US$14 billion plan, endorsed by President George Bush and congressional Democrats, that would have provided quick loans to the Detroit automakers. On Friday, GM, Ford and Chrysler were talking with the administration and the U.S. Federal Reserve about how they could still get the billions of dollars they say they need to survive. The talks included conditions that automakers would have to meet, said GM spokesman Greg Martin. The administration said no decisions had been made on the size or duration of the new bailout plan, or what type of concessions might be demanded from the struggling automakers, their workers, stockholders or others. Earlier Friday, Canadian governments came under increasing pressure to announce a multibillion-dollar aid package for the auto industry even before the White House finalizes details of its planned bailout of the battered Detroit Three. The president of the Canadian Auto Workers union said Friday that aid can't come quickly enough for General Motors, Ford and Chrysler and their Canadian subsidiaries. "The Canadian government should be proactive, announcing a Canadian financing package conditional on a U.S. package coming together," CAW president Ken Lewenza told a news conference. "We think if Canada was to move and move swiftly, then that would put pressure on the U.S. to respond more appropriately." Both the federal and Ontario governments had been reluctant to hand out any aid without first seeing the details of a comparable U.S. package so they can match any conditions and provide a proportional amount of funding. The need for some form of aid seemed to increase in urgency Friday as domestic and Japanese automakers in Canada announced they will cut production and extend temporary layoffs. General Motors (NYSE:GM) said it will shut down virtually all of its North American plants for January, cutting another 250,000 vehicles from its first-quarter production schedule by temporarily closing 21 factories. Some production, however, will continue at GM's plants in Ontario, said Stew Low, spokesman for General Motors of Canada. The Oshawa, Ont., truck plant will be down during the first week of January but has no more scheduled down time until the middle of March, Low said. Gary Coad, a father of two with twins on the way, said Friday was his last day of work after he was laid off from GM's Oshawa plant. He said he'd be willing to do whatever he could to keep his job, including taking a pay cut. "Jobs are so hard to come by I would do whatever they want," he said. But he remained optimistic. "I think it'll eventually come around," he said. "Not like it used to be, but I think I'll be back here in a couple of years. I'm very optimistic that way." Meanwhile, Japanese automaker Honda Motor Co. said it is cutting more production in North America as it adjusts to lower demand, but does not plan any layoffs in Canada. Lewenza said the CAW has not yet been asked to make any specific concessions, unlike the United Auto Workers, who were widely blamed Friday for the U.S. Senate's defeat of the aid package when they rejected upfront pay and benefit concessions. He added that wage cuts for autoworkers won't solve the financial problems of the Detroit Three, but said he's willing to work with the automakers to develop a solution to their woes. The Detroit Three automakers had been seeking a total of $6.8 billion in loans and credit lines from Ottawa and Ontario, saying they need some of that money before the end of the year as they struggle with a worsening economy. The automakers have said that without a bailout, they will soon run out of cash and could collapse. Chrysler could declare bankruptcy within "a few days" if the White House fails to intervene and provide automakers with emergency funds, and GM will likely follow suit, according to one industry analyst. This would set off a chain reaction that would put thousands of Canadians out of work, Joe D'Cruz, a professor at the University of Toronto's Rotman School of Management, said in an interview. "It's going to be a very turbulent environment," D'Cruz said. "It is going to trigger a really wide-scale set of changes in the Canadian automotive industry."

[Nimue1995 1]

Barney Frank: OK, I withdraw my comment about voting for him. What an idiot and a liar. It's not about welfare for corporations, and it's not about welfare for the employees. It's about welfare for politicians, in the form of billions of dollars of campaign contributions. And he's one to talk about lack of leadership, mister "there is no problem with Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac". As for the bailout falling apart, right result, wrong reason. The R's balked because they didn't get their form of central planning, not because they have a principled aversion to letting politicians engage in central planning. Time to google "how to start a militia".

You don't have to start one H. There's one right down the road from me in Darby MT.,lol. I'm pretty sure they're still accepting new members.

[akoff 0]

The Canadian and Ontario Governments have agreed to provide support to the Detroit 3 if the US does. It will be 20% of the amount that the US Gov't provides which is in line with the 20% of North American auto production that is done here in Ontario.http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081212/...tdown_autos_cda

So your trying to bring this thread back on topic...you guys up north want to waste your money as bad as we do? They are not going out of business. let them fall, they will get back up. We go and toss out 15 or 20 billion now. Ok cool, the companies use that to hold together for 2 months or a quarter. Now what? what had changed? the bailout money is gone....and we have a company with union issues that force it to be unprofitable....and have spent 15 or 20 billion for nothing.These companies are either going to get changes in the agreements or go bankrupt. it is really that simple. it is not even argueable to people the run, understand business. It maybe cold but it is also the truth...this is no different then a sportsbetter trying to double up on monday night!!sucker bet don't do it!

[hblask 1]

My representative in Congress sent me this letter in response to comments on the auto bailout:

Thank you for contacting me to share your concerns regarding the recent Congressional action focused on the faltering automobile industry in the United States . I appreciate learning of your views.As you may be aware, the House of Representatives passed an auto bailout bill on December 10, 2008. I could not support this bill because it puts a government bureaucrat in charge of the marketing, investment, and HR decisions of private companies - and falls fell short of protecting taxpayers and accomplishing the ultimate goal of enabling the auto industry to become competitive again. After a failed procedural vote in the Senate, legislative action on the issue has come to a halt at the current time. I will continue to express to my colleagues in Congress that poor financial decisions and crippling union contracts should not be rewarded. Rather, the federal government should implement a commonsense, free market solution to our economic woes. To that end, I am cosponsoring H.R. 7309, legislation that would provide a two month tax holiday to let the American people decide for themselves which companies deserve bailing out and which do not.

Here's the bill:http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-7309

To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to suspend employment and income taxes for the first two months of 2009, and for other purposes.

[strategy 4]

pretty sure the author of jeepster's source probably meant to type 4 trillion. it's a nice half-way point between the numbers yorke linked./late to the party

[Randy Reed 0]

Dear Employees & Suppliers, Congress and the current Administration will soon determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation's history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis......................As an employee or supplier, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard. Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support. Troy Clarke President General Motors North America Response from: Gregory Knox, Pres. Knox Machinery Company Franklin, Ohio Gentlemen: In response to your request to contact legislators and ask for a bailout for the Big Three automakers please consider the following, and please pass my thoughts on to Troy Clarke, President of General Motors North America. Politicians and Management of the Big 3 are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has spread like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping this nation, awaiting our new "messiah", Pres-elect Obama, to wave his magic wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep "living the dream"… Believe me folks, The dream is over! This dream where we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded "laborers" without paying the price for these atrocities…this dream where you still think the masses will line up to buy our products for ever and ever. Don't even think about telling me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEM's throughout the Midwest during the past 30 years and what I've seen over those years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting. Troy Clarke, President of General Motors North America, states: "There is widespread sentiment throughout this country, and our government, and especially via the news media, that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management which it certainly is not." You're right Mr. Clarke, it's not JUST management…how about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag ass…so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time…for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour work week. How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics…for putting out too many parts on a shift…and for being too productive (We certainly must not expose those lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?) Do you folks really not know about this stuff?!? How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea: "over the last few years …we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors." What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!? Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them? The K car vs. the Accord? The Pinto vs. the Civic?!? Do I need to go on? What a joke!< /span> We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades. It's time to pay for your sins, Detroit. I attended an economic summit last week where brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu, from the Institute of Trend Research, surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of "bailout money". "Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems," but despite what people like politicians and corporate magnates would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day… and the following very important thing would happen…where there had been greedy and sloppy banks, new efficient ones would pop up…that is how a free market system works…it does work…if we would only let it work…" But for some nondescript reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn't work - that we need the government to step in and "save us"…Save us my ass, Hell - we're nationalizing…and unfortunately too many of our once fine nation's citizens don't even have a clue that this is what is really happening…But, they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams…yeah - THAT'S really important, isn't it… Does it ever occur to ANYONE that the "competition" has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades in this country?... How can that be??? Let's see… Fuel efficient… Listening to customers… Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul… Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr. W. Edwards Deming four decades ago when he taught that by adopting appropriate principles of management, organizations could increase quality and simultaneously=2 0reduce costs. Ever increased productivity through quality and intelligent planning… Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like "the enemy"… Efficient front and back offices… Non union environment… Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn't be telling anyone anything they really don't already know down deep in their hearts. I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone to bail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into - my children do this on a weekly, if not daily basis, as I did when I was their age. I do for them what my parents did for me (one of their greatest gifts, by the way) - I make them stand on their own two feet and accept the consequences of their actions and work through it. Radical concept, huh… Am I there for them in the wings? Of course - but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults. I don't want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government. Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins. Bad news people - it's coming whether we like it or not. The newly elected Messiah really doesn't have a magic wand big enough to "make it all go away." I laughed as I heard Obama "reeling it back in" almost immediately after the final vote count was tallied…"we really might not do it in a year…or in four…" Where the Hell was that kind of talk when he was RUNNING for office. Stop trying to put off the inevitable folks … That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000… People who jump across a border really don't deserve free health care benefits… That job driving that forklift for the Big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year… We really shouldn't allow Wal-Mart to stock their shelves with products acquired from a country that unfairly manipulates their currency and has the most atrocious human rights infractions on the face of the globe… That couple whose combined inc ome is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home… Let the market correct itself folks - it will. Yes it will be painful, but it's gonna' be painful either way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side of it all, is a nation that appreciates what it has…and doesn't live beyond its means…and gets back to basics…and redevelops the patriotic work ethic that made it the greatest nation in the history of the world…and probably turns back to God. Sorry - don't cut my head off, I'm just the messenger sharing with you the "bad news". I hope you take it to heart. Gregory J. Knox, President Knox Machinery, Inc. Franklin, Ohio 45005

[MikeJohnson724 0]

All the people defending it. Let's hear about how nice your Ford is and how long it has lasted you with minimal cost. These companies make a crappy product, why should they stay in business?How about all the small business in town, maybe the Government should help them also?

[akoff 0]

Dear Employees & Suppliers, Congress and the current Administration will soon determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation's history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis......................As an employee or supplier, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard. Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support. Troy Clarke President General Motors North America Response from: Gregory Knox, Pres. Knox Machinery Company Franklin, Ohio Gentlemen: In response to your request to contact legislators and ask for a bailout for the Big Three automakers please consider the following, and please pass my thoughts on to Troy Clarke, President of General Motors North America. Politicians and Management of the Big 3 are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has spread like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping this nation, awaiting our new "messiah", Pres-elect Obama, to wave his magic wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep "living the dream"… Believe me folks, The dream is over! This dream where we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded "laborers" without paying the price for these atrocities…this dream where you still think the masses will line up to buy our products for ever and ever. Don't even think about telling me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEM's throughout the Midwest during the past 30 years and what I've seen over those years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting. Troy Clarke, President of General Motors North America, states: "There is widespread sentiment throughout this country, and our government, and especially via the news media, that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management which it certainly is not." You're right Mr. Clarke, it's not JUST management…how about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag ass…so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time…for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour work week. How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics…for putting out too many parts on a shift…and for being too productive (We certainly must not expose those lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?) Do you folks really not know about this stuff?!? How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea: "over the last few years …we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors." What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!? Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them? The K car vs. the Accord? The Pinto vs. the Civic?!? Do I need to go on? What a joke!< /span> We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades. It's time to pay for your sins, Detroit. I attended an economic summit last week where brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu, from the Institute of Trend Research, surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of "bailout money". "Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems," but despite what people like politicians and corporate magnates would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day… and the following very important thing would happen…where there had been greedy and sloppy banks, new efficient ones would pop up…that is how a free market system works…it does work…if we would only let it work…" But for some nondescript reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn't work - that we need the government to step in and "save us"…Save us my ass, Hell - we're nationalizing…and unfortunately too many of our once fine nation's citizens don't even have a clue that this is what is really happening…But, they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams…yeah - THAT'S really important, isn't it… Does it ever occur to ANYONE that the "competition" has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades in this country?... How can that be??? Let's see… Fuel efficient… Listening to customers… Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul… Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr. W. Edwards Deming four decades ago when he taught that by adopting appropriate principles of management, organizations could increase quality and simultaneously=2 0reduce costs. Ever increased productivity through quality and intelligent planning… Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like "the enemy"… Efficient front and back offices… Non union environment… Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn't be telling anyone anything they really don't already know down deep in their hearts. I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone to bail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into - my children do this on a weekly, if not daily basis, as I did when I was their age. I do for them what my parents did for me (one of their greatest gifts, by the way) - I make them stand on their own two feet and accept the consequences of their actions and work through it. Radical concept, huh… Am I there for them in the wings? Of course - but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults. I don't want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government. Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins. Bad news people - it's coming whether we like it or not. The newly elected Messiah really doesn't have a magic wand big enough to "make it all go away." I laughed as I heard Obama "reeling it back in" almost immediately after the final vote count was tallied…"we really might not do it in a year…or in four…" Where the Hell was that kind of talk when he was RUNNING for office. Stop trying to put off the inevitable folks … That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000… People who jump across a border really don't deserve free health care benefits… That job driving that forklift for the Big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year… We really shouldn't allow Wal-Mart to stock their shelves with products acquired from a country that unfairly manipulates their currency and has the most atrocious human rights infractions on the face of the globe… That couple whose combined inc ome is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home… Let the market correct itself folks - it will. Yes it will be painful, but it's gonna' be painful either way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side of it all, is a nation that appreciates what it has…and doesn't live beyond its means…and gets back to basics…and redevelops the patriotic work ethic that made it the greatest nation in the history of the world…and probably turns back to God. Sorry - don't cut my head off, I'm just the messenger sharing with you the "bad news". I hope you take it to heart. Gregory J. Knox, President Knox Machinery, Inc. Franklin, Ohio 45005

OMG...great ****ing letter. That is spot on I wish wrote well enough to have done it myself.

[Jeepster80125 0]

This ad cost $100,000 to run. Good thing that cost will be deducted from Chrysler's corporate taxes, reducing their liability further! I wonder whose bonus will be paid by the savings.ad from http://blogmaverick.com/2008/12/22/you-kno...-toast-because/

[Vandees 0]

This ad cost $100,000 to run. Good thing that cost will be deducted from Chrysler's corporate taxes, reducing their liability further! I wonder whose bonus will be paid by the savings.ad from http://blogmaverick.com/2008/12/22/you-kno...-toast-because/

Wow, so 22% of my tax money goes out of the United States? Awesome, you're welcome Chrysler!!!!!