Best Bigs In The Nba

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

Making it to the final 4 teams of the conference isn't a bad team. That pretty much makes you one of the best 8 teams in the league, and his numbers that year were closer to 25/12.

Other people said it, but Sam Cassell. Brand's good though.

[Jadaki 0]

Other people said it, but Sam Cassell. Brand's good though.

You are all on crack, Cassell is an okay player, but he was far from the go to guy on that team. I guarantee if there was a top 5 PG discussion that year Cassell would not have been anywhere near it just like he has never been anywhere near it. MVP VotesBrand - yesCassell - no

[chgocubs99 0]

Other people said it, but Sam Cassell. Brand's good though.

lol...riiiiiiighhhhhhhhttt.....Robert Horry is the reason the Spurs and Lakers won championships too...Shaq and Duncan were good though.

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

lol...riiiiiiighhhhhhhhttt.....Robert Horry is the reason the Spurs and Lakers won championships too...Shaq and Duncan were good though.

All I've been saying is you can't put Elton Brand in the same discussion as Tim Duncan. But don't underestimate what Sam Cassell does. It's not a coincidence every team he's been on has gone further than they ever have in recent history.Btw, Horry hit many more big shots than Shaq, but then again most players have done more in crunch time than him.

[babylondonks 5]

You are all on crack, Cassell is an okay player, but he was far from the go to guy on that team. I guarantee if there was a top 5 PG discussion that year Cassell would not have been anywhere near it just like he has never been anywhere near it. MVP VotesBrand - yesCassell - no

He was all-NBA second team with Minny. You are grossly underrating him, probably because he's now 38 and just as shot-happy as he was ten years ago. But with LAC he was averaging 17/6/4 which made him 2nd on the team in points after Elton (3rd if you count Maggette's 32 game season), he was also 2nd on the team in usage (once again 3rd if we don't count Corey). And as he was always pretty damn clutch, I think we can pretty safely say that he had a fairly large impact on that Clippers team. No matter what you say about Sam I am, he could get his shot off just about anywhere on the court against any defender, even last season when it looked like he could hardly jog without cramping up.

[Jadaki 0]

He was all-NBA second team with Minny. You are grossly underrating him, probably because he's now 38 and just as shot-happy as he was ten years ago. But with LAC he was averaging 17/6/4 which made him 2nd on the team in points after Elton (3rd if you count Maggette's 32 game season), he was also 2nd on the team in usage (once again 3rd if we don't count Corey). And as he was always pretty damn clutch, I think we can pretty safely say that he had a fairly large impact on that Clippers team. No matter what you say about Sam I am, he could get his shot off just about anywhere on the court against any defender, even last season when it looked like he could hardly jog without cramping up.

Dominate big men matter more in the NBA than a dominate PG does.Look at every team Cassell has done well on, its because he had a dominate low post player taking up double teams to help him get his shot off. Title with Houston, they just had a Hall of Fame center, deep playoff runs with the Clips and Wolves, they had a couple guys named KG and Brand. Sam I am (willing to shoot from anywhere with my eyes closed) was decent in his prime, but he isn't HOF material. He just keeps landing on teams with HOF big men.

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

Dominate big men matter more in the NBA than a dominate PG does.Look at every team Cassell has done well on, its because he had a dominate low post player taking up double teams to help him get his shot off. Title with Houston, they just had a Hall of Fame center, deep playoff runs with the Clips and Wolves, they had a couple guys named KG and Brand. Sam I am (willing to shoot from anywhere with my eyes closed) was decent in his prime, but he isn't HOF material. He just keeps landing on teams with HOF big men.

Except none of those guys did anything until he got there, and never did anything after he was gone. Except KG last year. Not a coincidence. But who was Milwaukee's dominant big man? Glenn Robinson? Ervin Johnson?

[babylondonks 5]

Dominate big men matter more in the NBA than a dominate PG does.Look at every team Cassell has done well on, its because he had a dominate low post player taking up double teams to help him get his shot off. Title with Houston, they just had a Hall of Fame center, deep playoff runs with the Clips and Wolves, they had a couple guys named KG and Brand. Sam I am (willing to shoot from anywhere with my eyes closed) was decent in his prime, but he isn't HOF material. He just keeps landing on teams with HOF big men.

I never said he was HOF material. I'm just saying that the Clippers were not going deep that year without him, and haven't done anything before or since.

Except none of those guys did anything until he got there, and never did anything after he was gone. Except KG last year. Not a coincidence. But who was Milwaukee's dominant big man? Glenn Robinson? Ervin Johnson?

THE BIG DOG!

[GeneralGeeWhiz 0]

Biedrins had another great game last night. Too bad we lost.

[chgocubs99 0]

All I've been saying is you can't put Elton Brand in the same discussion as Tim Duncan. But don't underestimate what Sam Cassell does. It's not a coincidence every team he's been on has gone further than they ever have in recent history.Btw, Horry hit many more big shots than Shaq, but then again most players have done more in crunch time than him.

Is this a joke? OK, let me rephrase that...it is an accurate statement, but a pointless one when comparing the value of two players. Do you understand why?

Except none of those guys did anything until he got there, and never did anything after he was gone. Except KG last year. Not a coincidence. But who was Milwaukee's dominant big man? Glenn Robinson? Ervin Johnson?

Again, I am hoping this is not a serious statement.I agree with everything Jadaki said. Cassell is a nice offensive player, he can get his own shot against any defender at any time, and also knocked it down with a higher percentage than most players in the league. I don't have numbers in front of me but I'd guess his midrange jump shot FG% is among the best of all active players. He was also an atrocious defender. I love whne people tout average players as the reason for a team's success. Yea, he did well on a Bucks team that everything went right for over one season. Besides that, he's played with Hall of Famers on every team he's been on. They're the reason he's on winning teams, not the other way around. The fact that some of the players he's enjoyed success with have not enjoyed the same success without him is more of a coincedence that those same Hall of Famers happened to not be on good teams the other years. It just appears that Cassell is then the reason for their success because it happened more than a few times. It's just a fluke. A random deviation from the norm.

[tskillz187 0]

Sheed's a better big than Brand. Over careers, right now, on offense, on defense, wherever you want the comparison and no one is talking about him.Speaking of Sheed, I think that Clips team was a lot like Sheed's Blazers, a lot of solid/good/very good players but no one great. I actually really liked those Blazers teams.

[chgocubs99 0]

Sheed's a better big than Brand. Over careers, right now, on offense, on defense, wherever you want the comparison and no one is talking about him.Speaking of Sheed, I think that Clips team was a lot like Sheed's Blazers, a lot of solid/good/very good players but no one great. I actually really liked those Blazers teams.

MehBrand career, 20/10 with 2 blocks, 50% from the floor, 75% from the lineSheed career, 15/7 with 1.4 blocks, 47% from the floor, 71% from the lineBrand's played 4 more minutes per game, not negligable but certainly not a huge difference either. Brand turns the ball over slightly more. Sheed shoots threes at a league average percentage (rare for a big) which has to be taken into consideration, and is also a better 1 on 1 and team defender.Sheed's also a hothead but no teammate has ever publicly said anything negative about his team attitude that I am aware of, so I don't think that really has a place in the argument.Slight, but conclusive, edge to Brand in my opinion.

[babylondonks 5]

I can't see much I disagree with in the last few posts for once Cubs, I think you're right, Brand is a much better player than Sam, especially as a big man. However I will stand by my statement that the Clippers were not getting as far as they did without Cassell, though obviously without Brand they wouldn't even make the playoffs.The argument that Sam Cassell is the reason for a lot of these wins is a more persuasive one than the Scot Pollard argument however :)As for the Brand/Sheed. To be honest, I'd still prefer Sheed most days over Brand. Sheed is one of the best defending big men in the league, and he did wonders for Detroits D. I think that if Wallace was driven enough he could have been one of the best players in the league but instead he was more interested in having a good time; and full credit to him for deciding that. Also, I'm not sure if you can really use stats as a completely accurate representation because for the last number of years Sheed has been on what has been one of the best starting lineups in the game, which built its foundations upon teamwork. What I do know though, is that the guy can flatout shoot the ball with serious range.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmCf_dN8mUY

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

Is this a joke? OK, let me rephrase that...it is an accurate statement, but a pointless one when comparing the value of two players. Do you understand why?Again, I am hoping this is not a serious statement.I agree with everything Jadaki said. Cassell is a nice offensive player, he can get his own shot against any defender at any time, and also knocked it down with a higher percentage than most players in the league. I don't have numbers in front of me but I'd guess his midrange jump shot FG% is among the best of all active players. He was also an atrocious defender. I love whne people tout average players as the reason for a team's success. Yea, he did well on a Bucks team that everything went right for over one season. Besides that, he's played with Hall of Famers on every team he's been on. They're the reason he's on winning teams, not the other way around. The fact that some of the players he's enjoyed success with have not enjoyed the same success without him is more of a coincedence that those same Hall of Famers happened to not be on good teams the other years. It just appears that Cassell is then the reason for their success because it happened more than a few times. It's just a fluke. A random deviation from the norm.

Well they're both true. Ask anyone who saw almost every minute of Shaq's Laker career. As for Cassell, his value can't be measured on paper or a stat sheet. You must be a baseball guy, because you love stats, but they can be very misleading in basketball, and with some players they can be completely irrelevant. You said he's an atrocious defender, but he was an excellent team defender, and I would much rather have the latter than the former on a good team.As for Wallace and Brand, anyone who wouldn't choose Rasheed Wallace over Brand to give your team the best chance to win a championship is completely insane.

[chgocubs99 0]

Well they're both true. Ask anyone who saw almost every minute of Shaq's Laker career. As for Cassell, his value can't be measured on paper or a stat sheet. You must be a baseball guy, because you love stats, but they can be very misleading in basketball, and with some players they can be completely irrelevant. You said he's an atrocious defender, but he was an excellent team defender, and I would much rather have the latter than the former on a good team.As for Wallace and Brand, anyone who wouldn't choose Rasheed Wallace over Brand to give your team the best chance to win a championship is completely insane.

How can stats be misleading? Over the course of an 82 game season, they are going to go be pretty accurate. If things like turnovers, field goal percentage, and rebounding aren't important, we must be watching two different games. In order to make an NBA squad you have to have at least some sembelance of being able to execute the plays that are called, set picks, and play individual and team defense. Some are better than than others at it, but if Sheed is a 9 as a team defender, and Brand is a 4, how much better of a player does that make Sheed if everything else is exactly equal? It's not quantifiable. I am coming at you with facts, and you are saying facts can't tell the whole story. You're not giving me anything, really, except that you think I'm insane.Sheed's won a championship and got to a ton of conference finals, each time on teams with several above average NBA players. Brand was not able to get to a championship with Quinton Ross and Shaun Livingston, or on any of the atrocious Bulls teams he was on to start his career. That maks Sheed a no brainer choice, even with all the evidence you've seen to the contrary?Oh yea, and don't ever use the words "Cassell" and "excellent defender" in the same sentence again, in any context please. Thanks.

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

How can stats be misleading? Over the course of an 82 game season, they are going to go be pretty accurate. If things like turnovers, field goal percentage, and rebounding aren't important, we must be watching two different games. In order to make an NBA squad you have to have at least some sembelance of being able to execute the plays that are called, set picks, and play individual and team defense. Some are better than than others at it, but if Sheed is a 9 as a team defender, and Brand is a 4, how much better of a player does that make Sheed if everything else is exactly equal? It's not quantifiable. I am coming at you with facts, and you are saying facts can't tell the whole story. You're not giving me anything, really, except that you think I'm insane.Sheed's won a championship and got to a ton of conference finals, each time on teams with several above average NBA players. Brand was not able to get to a championship with Quinton Ross and Shaun Livingston, or on any of the atrocious Bulls teams he was on to start his career. That maks Sheed a no brainer choice, even with all the evidence you've seen to the contrary?Oh yea, and don't ever use the words "Cassell" and "excellent defender" in the same sentence again, in any context please. Thanks.

First of all, I don't think you're insane. I think maybe we have two different ideas of what's most important for a basketball player. Brand may put up 20/11 to Rasheed's 17/8 over the course of a season, but that doesn't have anything to do with who the better basketball player is. A player's value is determined on who will have a greater impact in a 7-game series, and not who puts up better numbers against New Jersey's Nenad Krstic in November. And in a 7-game series you would rather have Wallace than Brand.

[chgocubs99 0]

First of all, I don't think you're insane. I think maybe we have two different ideas of what's most important for a basketball player. Brand may put up 20/11 to Rasheed's 17/8 over the course of a season, but that doesn't have anything to do with who the better basketball player is. A player's value is determined on who will have a greater impact in a 7-game series, and not who puts up better numbers against New Jersey's Nenad Krstic in November. And in a 7-game series you would rather have Wallace than Brand.

Why?

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

Why?

Because he's the better player. He's going to be able to guard Brand and make it difficult for him to score, and without a double team, so you're seemingly best player is creating no advantage for any of your other players. On the other end Wallace can get any look he wants over Brand who's much smaller in both height and length. So you're either going to have to double team him or accept that mismatch and make Rasheed beat you. Depending on the other players on the floor you might have to even switch him off Wallace, which is ok, but that gives you a greater chance of your other frontcourt player getting in foul trouble, and effectively taking a mental beating for seven games while he gets scored on one end, but doesn't have that role on the team to go back at them on the offensive end, which can take that player out of a series altogether. Now you're relying on a bench player to play bigger and more significant minutes against a starter on the other team, therefore creating another advantage for another player on Rasheed's team, whether it be Maxiell, Amir Johnson, or McDyess in their case. This is why Tim Duncan is so good, in a playoff series he can't be guarded without a double team so quite often he takes the opponent's entire frontcourt out of a series. This is also why Dwight Howard can't be at the top of this list yet, because he doesn't have a well-rounded enough post game to score consistently on the better post players in the league, which are often occupied by the best teams as you go deeper in the playoffs.

[chgocubs99 0]

Because he's the better player. He's going to be able to guard Brand and make it difficult for him to score, and without a double team, so you're seemingly best player is creating no advantage for any of your other players. On the other end Wallace can get any look he wants over Brand who's much smaller in both height and length. So you're either going to have to double team him or accept that mismatch and make Rasheed beat you. Depending on the other players on the floor you might have to even switch him off Wallace, which is ok, but that gives you a greater chance of your other frontcourt player getting in foul trouble, and effectively taking a mental beating for seven games while he gets scored on one end, but doesn't have that role on the team to go back at them on the offensive end, which can take that player out of a series altogether. Now you're relying on a bench player to play bigger and more significant minutes against a starter on the other team, therefore creating another advantage for another player on Rasheed's team, whether it be Maxiell, Amir Johnson, or McDyess in their case. This is why Tim Duncan is so good, in a playoff series he can't be guarded without a double team so quite often he takes the opponent's entire frontcourt out of a series. This is also why Dwight Howard can't be at the top of this list yet, because he doesn't have a well-rounded enough post game to score consistently on the better post players in the league, which are often occupied by the best teams as you go deeper in the playoffs.

Every player in the league is smaller than Rasheed in length. If he can be effective getting any shot he wants why does he only shoot 47% from the floor? Is that a lot different in the playoffs? Is he trying harder to make his shots go in the hoop because the playoffs have started?Your thoughs on Howard are way off as well.

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

Every player in the league is smaller than Rasheed in length. If he can be effective getting any shot he wants why does he only shoot 47% from the floor? Is that a lot different in the playoffs? Is he trying harder to make his shots go in the hoop because the playoffs have started?Your thoughs on Howard are way off as well.

Ok.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

Your thoughs on Howard are way off as well.

No they arent.

[chgocubs99 0]

Ok.

No they arent.

Oh.Does Lebron need to develop a better 3 point shot or post up game to become a truly elite player?Should Shaq work on his midrange game?When you are unstoppable at something, it doesn't matter if you can't "do it all."

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

Oh.Does Lebron need to develop a better 3 point shot or post up game to become a truly elite player?Should Shaq work on his midrange game?When you are unstoppable at something, it doesn't matter if you can't "do it all."

I'm not sure you understand how a player's particular strengths and weaknesses affect the dynamic of their team within a game.

[chgocubs99 0]

I'm not sure you understand how a player's particular strengths and weaknesses affect the dynamic of their team within a game.

This says nothing.

[Jadaki 0]

I love Sheed, I'm a UNC fan afterall. But at no time in his career has he ever had to be the focal point of a teams offense. At UNC it was Vince Carter, on the Bullets he backed up C-Webb. On Portland he never really carried the team as they had a lot of pieces, though he did a great job that while he was there being the biggest hothead in the league. And we all know the Pistons have a lot of talent and always have since he was there.There has never been a time where he has had to carry a team on his back for any significant time, its not the type of player he is. Sheed is a great piece, a phenomenal talent, but Brand is still better overall.