New Rule

[SilentButDeadly3 0]

BigD has spent more time on the poker forum than actually time spent playing poker. 'Nuff said.

[Vtlaxer09 4]

I still havent had an opportunity to slowroll someone... fml.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

BigD has spent more time on the poker forum than actually time spent playing poker. 'Nuff said.

Thanks for contributing to the discussion.Lets assume what you say is true. Lets even say that I haven't played a single minute of real, actual poker. Does that make anything I've said any less true? Does it make any point logically invalid?

[looshle 6]

BigD has spent more time on the poker forum than actually time spent playing poker. 'Nuff said.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Thank for contributing to the discussion, Loosh, insightful as always.

[chgocubs99 0]

Thank for contributing to the discussion, Loosh, insightful as always.

The disccussion ended like 40 posts ago. You don't have to respond and try to make the same point over, and over, and over, and over again to every new respondee that makes the slightest bit different of a counter argument.Yes, it does matter if you have never played poker before. You don't have to have played in the NBA to coach an NBA team, but you have to at least either played a little, or watched, studied and participated in the game EXTENSIVELY to understand it. Same goes for poker. If you have never played one hand of poker you are not qualified to speak on it and expect your opinion to be respected. I mean, it's the internet, so you can obviously do whatever you want, but your thoughts won't hold much merit.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

The disccussion ended like 40 posts ago. You don't have to respond and try to make the same point over, and over, and over, and over again to every new respondee that makes the slightest bit different of a counter argument.Yes, it does matter if you have never played poker before. You don't have to have played in the NBA to coach an NBA team, but you have to at least either played a little, or watched, studied and participated in the game EXTENSIVELY to understand it. Same goes for poker. If you have never played one hand of poker you are not qualified to speak on it and expect your opinion to be respected. I mean, it's the internet, so you can obviously do whatever you want, but your thoughts won't hold much merit.

See, and I think that opinions need to be judged on their logical merit, not on who's cck is the biggest, then blindly accepting that person's viewpoint uncritically. Which is the entire point of me of bringing this up. People accept that slow rolling is wrong uncritically, without thinking about it, based on emotion. I tried to make people think about it, and I get personally attacked.

[chgocubs99 0]

See, and I think that opinions need to be judged on their logical merit, not on who's cck is the biggest, then blindly accepting that person's viewpoint uncritically. Which is the entire point of me of bringing this up. People accept that slow rolling is wrong uncritically, without thinking about it, based on emotion. I tried to make people think about it, and I get personally attacked.

There have been at least 7 responses from people who thought about it and made valid points, yet you continue to pound home the point that no one is thinking about it. Do you want me to go quote them? There was one response from someone that attacked you, and then two responses that had nothing to do with the thread from people attacking you, more than likely because you have a douchebag reputation around here. But you already knew that.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

There have been at least 7 responses from people who thought about it and made valid points, yet you continue to pound home the point that no one is thinking about it. Do you want me to go quote them?

Yes, I know, and I've engaged them in discussion about the issue. But many people continue to come in here and say "slow rolling is for a-holes, end of story" Do I need to quote all of those posts?

There was one response from someone that attacked you, and then two responses that had nothing to do with the thread from people attacking you, more than likely because you have a douchebag reputation around here. But you already knew that.

Pot, meet kettle.

[BeaverStyle 1]

lol e-fights. IMO there can't be a devil's advocate here because no one has ever and will never claim that slow-rolling is anything but a classless unethical play in poker. Oh, except BigDMcGee. I don't see how it ever serves as a tactical play to tilt your opponent. Nothing like a good meaningless e-debate..

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I don't see how it ever serves as a tactical play to tilt your opponent.

Explain this. If we define "tilt" as an emotional condition that causes a player to play less than their A game, I don't see how it can be anything but beneficial to try and tilt them, if that opponent is tight/ tough. If your opponent is passive and predictiable ( IE bad), then "tilting" them (at least in the way of slow rolling them, to make them pissed) can actually make them play better against you, more apt to bluff you and play unpredictably, may actually start thinking about the game, instead of being in a jovial social mode ( Caro talks about this concept extensively).But, if you're playing someone who is good, who is tough and unpredictable, and is playing their A game.. I can't see why you wouldn't prefer them tilted and not playing their A game.

[chgocubs99 0]

Yes, I know, and I've engaged them in discussion about the issue. But many people continue to come in here and say "slow rolling is for a-holes, end of story" Do I need to quote all of those posts? Pot, meet kettle.

As I've already said, the issue was dead. You're so concerned about getting the last word in and making a counterpoint to everything, and your logic is just circular at this point. I say the issue is dead and you are making the same point over and over, you say some people arent thinking, I point out a ton of people have and you keep replying in different was, and you say you have engaged them in discussion. And wow, in a thread there are some people that come in and drop their opinion without a well thought out, intelligent response. Yea, that's never happened before and is really, really shocking.As Beaverstyle just said, someone else said a little bit ago, and as I said like 50 posts ago, you are overanalyzing the issue just for the sake overanalyzing it. You're point has been made, there have been like 18 different people who say it is douchey, and you just won't give it up. As for your last point, I don't see respected forum members going around trolling my threads and trashing me for no reason, so maybe that's the issue you really should consider analyzing.

[chgocubs99 0]

Explain this. If we define "tilt" as an emotional condition that causes a player to play less than their A game, I don't see how it can be anything but beneficial to try and tilt them, and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

This is from two days ago. You're making the same responses and wording them differently. Remember?

You are way overanalyzing this. There is a social aspect and interaction in poker, and in certain social interactions the human race has come up with a set of guidelines established over many centuries. It allows us to live a more peaceful, relaxing lifestyle where we can all interact and respect each other on a consistent basis. Intentionally pissing people off goes against these societal guidelines, and it means you are a douchebag.I could complain about every meal I get at various restaurants around the city. I would eat for free pretty much every night. There's no reason I "shouldn't" do this. It's just a douche thing to do. Slowrolling is a douche thing to do. If your buddy wants to piss everyone off at the table and add a little bit to his winrate, that's his perogotive. I'd rather pay for my meals.

I'm arguing if it makes you perceived to be a douche, a jerk or an *******, of course it does. My question is, does that matter? Is sticking to etiquette contracts worth it? There are plenty of assholes in life, in your job, in the business world, who are complete and utter pricks, and they are extremely successful. Intentionally pissing someone off when your'e walking down the street has no upside. But doing it at a poker table can be +EV, and I'm just not sure saying that breaks some unwritten social contract is a good enough reason to give up EV.

I think it does matter and it is a reason to give up EV, and that's where the debate ends since there really is nothing further to discuss if we can't get past that. You're right about the assholes in everyday life, and I wouldn't be one to be successful. If that means that I am less succesful than a guy with equal skill of mine, I'm fine with that. Money isn't everything.

and that's fair enough, it's fair enough. I was just trying to come up with more reasons not to, that I'm not thinking of, besides " shouldn't". Because I, personally, don't really hold should or shouldn't as having much logical merit. I can totally see why you don't do it, but that answer doesn't hold much interest to me..

You could have stopped posting after that, since you were done making any new points and you can totally see why others wouldn't do it, but clearly don't care. So why even get their opinions then?

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

As I've already said, the issue was dead.And wow, in a thread there are some people that come in and drop their opinion without a well thought out, intelligent response. Yea, that's never happened before and is really, really shocking.As Beaverstyle just said, someone else said a little bit ago, and as I said like 50 posts ago, you are overanalyzing the issue just for the sake overanalyzing it. You're point has been made, there have been like 18 different people who say it is douchey, and you just won't give it up.

Any, what is you're motivation to come in here and be a d-bag about it? So you think this discussion is over? great, don't come in here. I don't think this discussion is over, and I enjoy talking about it. I don't go down to your work and knock the dick out of your mouth. Also, even if I'm"overanalyzing it for the sake of overanalyzing it" so what? What's wrong with an intellectual excerise. The fact is, you just plainly don't like me, and are only coming in here to be a dick to me, which you seem to do any chance you get, while I'm doing my very best to just talk slow rolling.

As for your last point, I don't see respected forum members going around trolling my threads and trashing me for no reason, so maybe that's the issue you really should consider analyzing.

Yeah, not all of us can make high quality threads likehttp://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...p;#entry2877923

[chgocubs99 0]

Any, what is you're motivation to come in here and be a d-bag about it? So you think this discussion is over? great, don't come in here. I don't think this discussion is over, and I enjoy talking about it. I don't go down to your work and knock the dick out of your mouth. Also, even if I'm"overanalyzing it for the sake of overanalyzing it" so what? What's wrong with an intellectual excerise. The fact is, you just plainly don't like me, and are only coming in here to be a dick to me, which you seem to do any chance you get, while I'm doing my very best to just talk slow rolling. Yeah, not all of us can make high quality threads likehttp://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...p;#entry2877923

I actually haven't had a problem with you in forever and haven't said anything negative to you or about you in ages. Glad to see you finally quit and moved on to personal insults, though, even though I didn't insult you once in this thread.edit: I have no clue what the point of that link was

[looshle 6]

Thank for contributing to the discussion, Loosh, insightful as always.

When you aren't a complete monkey, and play with people on a regular basis, you don't use horrible etiquette only to MAYBE tilt them and for sure, rub it in their faces/disrespect them. The same goes for co- workers. You don't treat them like shit if you think it has a remote chance of getting a very very small payraise over them unless you're a complete piece of shit.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I actually haven't had a problem with you in forever and haven't said anything negative to you or about you in ages. Glad to see you finally quit and moved on to personal insults, though, even though I didn't insult you once in this thread.

LOL the " I don't come down to your work" is just a joke thing, it's a reference to clerks ( I think...) It's just a figure of speech ( admittedly a crude one) I didn't intend for it to be a personal insult. Unless you're talking about me linking that thread, which I mean, was a direct counterpoint to your point. Threads don't get more trollish and contentless than that one, sorry but it's true. I was going to post something to that effect in the thread at the time, but it got locked before I could.

[chgocubs99 0]

When you aren't a complete monkey, and play with people on a regular basis, you don't use horrible etiquette only to MAYBE tilt them and for sure, rub it in their faces/disrespect them. The same goes for co- workers. You don't treat them like shit if you think it has a remote chance of getting a very very small payraise over them unless you're a complete piece of shit.

Well put, said before in different ways, and common sense to most, but he'll debate it in some way for the sake of i"intelligent analysis". My only hope is that me posting this makes him not do it for the sake of proving me wrong or getting a jab in at me.I'll get his response ready for you now..."How is that treating him like shit? You didn't break any rules!"

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

When you aren't a complete monkey, and play with people on a regular basis, you don't use horrible etiquette only to MAYBE tilt them and for sure, rub it in their faces/disrespect them. The same goes for co- workers. You don't treat them like shit if you think it has a remote chance of getting a very very small payraise over them unless you're a complete piece of shit.

Looshie, once again, I am just trying to talk aobut this from a hypothetical standpoint.. what are the pros and cons of slowrolling, with people having the knee jerk " slow rolling is for P's of S, end of story" reaction. There is an advantage to be had be disrespecting people, Looshie, for having people angry at you at the table, to actively dislike you. People like to pretend there isn't, but there is, and I don't know why I'm a "Complete monkey" for talking about it.

[chgocubs99 0]

LOL the " I don't come down to your work" is just a joke thing, it's a reference to clerks ( I think...) It's just a figure of speech ( admittedly a crude one) I didn't intend for it to be a personal insult. Unless you're talking about me linking that thread, which I mean, was a direct counterpoint to your point. Threads don't get more trollish and contentless than that one, sorry but it's true. I was going to post something to that effect in the thread at the time, but it got locked before I could.

I didn't say I was trolling or don't troll, I said respected members don't troll my posts or threads.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

"How is that treating him like shit? You didn't break any rules!"

No, you are absolutely treating them like sht, by slow rolling. That's why it can effective. I'm not saying that it's nice. Just that there probably is gain to be had by doing it.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I didn't say I was trolling or don't troll, I said respected members don't troll my posts or threads.

great, so you want to have a 'respected members of the forum" battle now, to see who gets to be homecoming king? LOL man, Cubs, like I said before, if you don't want to talk about slow rolling, then please don't. I really am just trying to talk about that issue in this thread, not pick nonsensical fights, and I'm not all together sure why it matters to you so much why I want to continue talking about it.

[chgocubs99 0]

great, so you want to have a 'respected members of the forum" battle now, to see who gets to be homecoming king? LOL man, Cubs, like I said before, if you don't want to talk about slow rolling, then please don't. I really am just trying to talk about that issue in this thread, not pick nonsensical fights.

I don't know what this means, nor do I care. This whole issue is closed as far as I'm concerned.

[uncooper 1]

I think you can make a logical distinction between the slowroll and showing cards. When you show cards, you are trying to deliberately manage the perception of how you are playing the game. Slowrolling can only be depicted as trying to change the perception of the type of person you are. Showing a bluff can make your opponent think "He plays a wide range from EP". Slowrolling can only make your opponent think "This guy is a major assface."That said, I won't try to make the point that this particular distinction crosses an ethical line (or doesn't).

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I don't know what this means, nor do I care. This whole issue is closed as far as I'm concerned.

Dully noted, for the 4th time. Thanks for playing, see you next year.