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Is It Over For The Republicans?


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As the traditional minority populations continue to increase in numbers, and thus continue to trend Democrat, what does the future hold?Is it possible we may never see another Republican president, or at least a Republican in the Reagan sense?Has the time finally come, or is it finally the right time to begin a groundswell towards a new, viable third party that could actually win? I have no clue...topic for debate, but my gut tells me the Republicans (or support for traditional Republican values) might be in serious troubleGod bless the USA...drinks are on me this weekend. :club:

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A Way Out of the WildernessBy Jeff FlakeWednesday, November 5, 2008; A26Well, we Republicans have just made history. Not the type of history we wanted to make, mind you, but history nonetheless. Not only did we lose the White House but, after losing our House and Senate majorities in 2006, we followed it up last night with even steeper losses in Congress.In January, Democrats will enjoy lopsided congressional ratios not seen since the 1970s. Let's face it: We Republicans are now, by any reasonable measurement, deep in the political wilderness.The temptation for Republican members of Congress today will be to assume the role of the post-Watergate Republicans of 1974 and accept minority status as a permanent condition. Indeed, the terrain is more difficult for us now than it was in 1992. Then, Republicanism was still largely defined by the Reagan years. Today the party is defined in the public mind by the Bush presidency. We've got a steep hill to climb.Much of the backroom maneuvering and media speculation in the coming weeks will focus on identifying new standard-bearers for the party. This is important, and after a second straight drubbing, the House Republican leadership should be replaced. But the far more critical task is determining what standard these new leaders will bear.I suggest that we return to first principles. At the top of that list has to be a recommitment to limited government. After eight years of profligate spending and soaring deficits, voters can be forgiven for not knowing that limited government has long been the first article of faith for Republicans.Of course, it's not the level of spending that gets the most attention; it's the manner in which the spending is allocated. The proliferation of earmarks is largely a product of the Gingrich-DeLay years, and it's no surprise that some of the most ardent practitioners were earmarked by the voters for retirement yesterday. Few Americans will take seriously Republican speeches on limited government if we Republicans can't wean ourselves from this insidious practice. But if we can go clean, it will offer a stark contrast to the Democrats, who, after two years in training, already have their own earmark favor factory running at full tilt.Second, we need to recommit to our belief in economic freedom. Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations" may be on the discount rack this year, but the free market is still the most efficient means to allocate capital and human resources in an economy, and Americans know it. Now that we've inserted government deeply into the private sector by bailing out banks and businesses, the temptation will be for government to overstay its welcome and force the distribution of resources to serve political ends. Substituting political for economic incentives is not the recipe for economic recovery.Most House Republicans opposed the recent bailout and will be in a strong position to promote economic freedom over central planning as the Obama administration stumbles from industry to industry trying to determine which is small enough to be allowed to fail and which is not. Since timetables will be in vogue, perhaps Republicans could even insist on a timetable for getting the government out of the private sector.There are, of course, other pillars of the Republican standard -- strong national defense, support for traditional values and the Second Amendment -- but these are not areas where voters question Republican bona fides. In any event, as we have seen over the past several months, economic woes tend to subsume other concerns. We shouldn't complain. We can now play our strongest hand.In some respects, raising a new standard was made easier by yesterday's rout. The Republican Party is not bound by election-year promises made by its presidential nominee. More important, the party is finally untethered from the ill-fitting and unworkable big-government conservatism that defined the Bush administration.This is not to say that it will be an easy transition. Congressional Republicans picked up some unattractive habits over the years in an effort to hold on to power. Whether it was relying on the redistricting process to help us choose our constituents, using the appropriations process as an ATM or passing legislation -- such as a generous prescription drug benefit and a bloated farm bill -- to pacify individual constituencies, these habits and voting patterns will be hard to break.But there is reason for Republicans to feel optimism. Politically, America remains a center-right country, and America loves a chastened and repentant sinner. As surely as the sun rises in the east, the Democrats will overreach.As long as we Republicans are willing to admit our folly, get back to first principles and work like there's no tomorrow, we've got 'em just where we want 'em.The writer, a Republican, represents Arizona's 6th District in the U.S. House.
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I feel mainly the party has failed to attract minorities in large numbers or the younger voters.We are (unfairly) seen as old, selfish, whites only, and mean (amongst other things). This is a perception that will take a herculean effort to turn around.

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As the traditional minority populations continue to increase in numbers, and thus continue to trend Democrat, what does the future hold?Is it possible we may never see another Republican president, or at least a Republican in the Reagan sense?Has the time finally come, or is it finally the right time to begin a groundswell towards a new, viable third party that could actually win? I have no clue...topic for debate, but my gut tells me the Republicans (or support for traditional Republican values) might be in serious troubleGod bless the USA...drinks are on me this weekend. :club:
1. Get back to smaller and less intrusive government. This means in the private lives of American citizens as well as in the economic sector. 2. Reasonable oversight and regulation which means you don't have to regulat everything but where individual and corporate greed is possible, it needs to be at least watched if not regulated. This means keeping up with what's happening in the economic world instead of just trusting that the corporations will always act in the best interests of the people. Corporations are amoral entities and are mainly dedicated to making a profit for their shareholders by means fair or foul if allowed. 3. Get a reasonable energy plan that takes into account the notion that even if you don't believe global warming is human caused, that at least you know that pissing in our only nest isn't a great idea would be better if we cut some of the sewage. 4. For ANY armed conflict that you contemplate sending our troops into, have reasonable attainable goals and an exit strategy. We do not need to colonize or occupy any more countries. It simply spreads our resources too thin. This means pushing other countries to step up to the plate when there is a rogue nation that threatens everyone's peace and security. We don't need the lone ranger & tonto show anymore. 5. For crying out loud quit waving the flag and start taking care of the troops who help you protect our nation. This means decent medical care including mental health which right now is darn near impossible for a soldier to get unless he goes out and murders somebody. And then they don't treat him, they just med board him out for the rest of us to deal with. It's not right to send a soldier to war to experience things that no human should have to experience and then kick him/her loose when then get back for the rest of society to take care of. 6. This is part of the intrusiveness into people's private lives but GET OUT OF THE BEDROOM. It is fine to espouse Christian principles but to stop saying you're going to force them down the throat of those who don't agree. It's time to start being proactive in preventing teen pregnancy which means - yes- promotion of sex education both abstinence & birth control/disease control in schools. Fine to teach abstinence but also teach the rest. And by the way, I was impressed with Obama taking parents to task for not living up to their responsibilities regarding their kids and it's about time the Republicans did the same with regard to teen pregnancy. If you want parents to be responsible then call on them to BE RESPONSIBLE in teaching their kids about sex. Most of the parents who I've met that didn't want sex education in the schools didn't want it there because they were afraid the kids would get "ideas". News flash people - kids get enough ideas already in movies and on TV. Sex education just helps them separate fact from fiction which is a GOOD IDEA. 7. Being anti-abortion is fine. Making it a sole litmus test for public office means that you force a great number of very able and competent people out of the Republican side. I know this won't set well with the Christian conservatives but it's time to face the fact that the majority of people in the U.S. want some form of abortion to be legal. Until that changes, your focus needs to not be in electing leaders that are pro-life but convincing the people of the U.S.A. to be pro-life. Once that happens then electing pro-life leaders won't be a problem because if there's one thing politicians are it's pragmatic. And they will go where the wind blows. And right now it's not blowing in a pro-life direction. So get over that and start recruiting young people into your grassroots. 8. Making a good education accessible to more people is a must in this day and age. That's where people can start improving their lot in life and giving them a lift in that direction isn't a bad idea. That's where I like the idea of service to the community or country in exchange for tuition credits is one of the ideas I really liked about Obama. It's not a horrible socialist idea. It's something that we already do for our service people. So why not make a GI bill for those who join the Peace Corp with tuition credits? Or like the service even pay for their schooling while they're serving. To me this isn't socialism, it's an investment in the future of our kids. Kids that might not have the opportunity otherwise. To me the GI bill is a great example of a government program that works. So there ya go H. Am I right or not?
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As the traditional minority populations continue to increase in numbers, and thus continue to trend Democrat, what does the future hold?Is it possible we may never see another Republican president, or at least a Republican in the Reagan sense?Has the time finally come, or is it finally the right time to begin a groundswell towards a new, viable third party that could actually win? I have no clue...topic for debate, but my gut tells me the Republicans (or support for traditional Republican values) might be in serious troubleGod bless the USA...drinks are on me this weekend. :club:
The same things were said about the Dems when they couldnt get a dog catcher elected, and the same was said after the Clinton mandates about the GOP. Politics, like the economy, is subject to cycles. My guess is this will be a short (ie 2 year for Congress 4 year for POTUS) cycle for the Dems.As Obama's inability to turn rhetoric into reality becomes apparent, the "he's going to pay mortgage and fill my gas tank" sees the economy in a shambles and the middle class sees the effects of trickle up poverty the Dems will have a tough time.
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I feel mainly the party has failed to attract minorities in large numbers or the younger voters.We are (unfairly) seen as old, selfish, whites only, and mean (amongst other things). This is a perception that will take a herculean effort to turn around.
Man, you guys are in full out "the sky is falling" mode. If the economy doesn't turn around, you'll have a Republican president as short as 4 years from now. there are a vast amount of voters who aren't ideological at all, they are just superstitious, and will vote for a republican for that reason alone. All you need is a youngish, photogenic, charismatic leader who can give a speech and look good in 10 second sound bites, and you're all set. Don't be so defeatist.. Reagan won by much, much larger margins and it didn't kill the democratic party.
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Good stuff in here. I'm not sure if my ideas will fit in with Dems or Reps, lefties or righties but here's a few things I wish the government would focus on.1) Prescription drugs - Penicillen for a human is $100 and the exact same pill, same manufacturer and all, if ordered for an equine is $5. There is something desperately wrong there.2) Require/demand/regulate that oil companies (BP, Exxon, etc.) spend a certain percentage of profit on finding a way to make us less dependant on foreign oil. NO CEO is worth what the oil company execs are getting paid.3) Fix our immigration problem. Either kick them all out quickly or find a way immediately to get them off social services. I don't think "Give me your tired and hungry" meant they stay here until we all starve to death. NO social services should be available to them until they are paying into Social Security, paying income tax, etc.4) Immediately stop believing that the US is the main source of ensuring peace and prosperity in every squabble in the world. Let someone else take the lead for a while and we'll support as needed. Get out of Iraq now. The constant bombing/demolition just to turn around and rebuild is getting rediculous. "Teach them to fish" and survive on their own and I don't think that require the amount of military forces we have there now. BTW, what is the "war" about now? Saddam is gone, there are no weapons of mass distruction, Osama isn't in Iraq.........so why are we still there?5) Revamp/reconstruct our own social services system. There are thousands, if not millions, on the welfare rolls that should not be there. If it's job loss, spend some money to train them for jobs available now. If it's momma's having babies that can't afford them, set them on the right track and then set them free. More babies should not equal more government aide. Give people the skills needed to get back in the work force and stop throwing money at people that are too lazy to feed themselves.

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Possibly. I think it's a terrible idea. McCain wanted to do it too.
I never underestimate a politican's willingness to see us out for political gain. Both bush and McCain needed the Immigrant vote to win elections in Texas and Arizona, and really to win National election. I hadn't really thought of it, but courting hispanic immigrants is the next big prize for the two parties. As of right now, it's certainly up for grabs, as Hispanics lean left, but nothing like the way blacks do. They are still a population that the GOP can court, and as such I imagine something like amnesty is inevitable.
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I never underestimate a politican's willingness to see us out for political gain. Both bush and McCain needed the Immigrant vote to win elections in Texas and Arizona, and really to win National election. I hadn't really thought of it, but courting hispanic immigrants is the next big prize for the two parties. As of right now, it's certainly up for grabs, as Hispanics lean left, but nothing like the way blacks do. They are still a population that the GOP can court, and as such I imagine something like amnesty is inevitable.
It sickens me to think this may be a major reason that amnesty gets granted.
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Good stuff in here. I'm not sure if my ideas will fit in with Dems or Reps, lefties or righties but here's a few things I wish the government would focus on.1) Prescription drugs - Penicillen for a human is $100 and the exact same pill, same manufacturer and all, if ordered for an equine is $5. There is something desperately wrong there. It isnt $100 here.2) Require/demand/regulate that oil companies (BP, Exxon, etc.) spend a certain percentage of profit on finding a way to make us less dependant on foreign oil. NO CEO is worth what the oil company execs are getting paid.What gives anyone the right to dictate how a company spends its profits? If there are no profitable alternatives why should they be saddled with the cost? If there are profitable alternatives they would be the first to jump on them because they have distribution in place. And by definition a CEO is worth what he's getting paid, the market sets rates, and thats the way it should be.3) Fix our immigration problem. Either kick them all out quicklyfine the employers that hire them and watch the jobs dry up and the self deportation that started with the economic downturn will do the job. or find a way immediately to get them off social services. I don't think "Give me your tired and hungry" meant they stay here until we all starve to death. NO social services should be available to them until they are paying into Social Security, paying income tax, etc.4) Immediately stop believing that the US is the main source of ensuring peace and prosperity in every squabble in the world. Let someone else take the lead for a while and we'll support as needed. And if they don't, and it endangers us? Get out of Iraq now. This is just ignorant and you should know that by now. The constant bombing/demolition just to turn around and rebuild is getting rediculous. "Teach them to fish" and survive on their own and I don't think that require the amount of military forces we have there now. BTW, what is the "war" about now? Saddam is gone, there are no weapons of mass distruction, Osama isn't in Iraq.........so why are we still there?Because until the government stablizes, if we leave we'll be back soon and at much greater cost. We'll be out of there in due time, but it cant be rushed.5) Revamp/reconstruct our own social services system. There are thousands, if not millions, on the welfare rolls that should not be there. If it's job loss, spend some money to train them for jobs available now. If it's momma's having babies that can't afford them, set them on the right track and then set them free. More babies should not equal more government aide. Give people the skills needed to get back in the work force and stop throwing money at people that are too lazy to feed themselves.You forgot "and let charities take care of them", because thats what should and I believe will happen.
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It sickens me to think this may be a major reason that amnesty gets granted.
welcome to the real world. Crassly pushing through programs and policies to court blocks of voters is what our politcal process is built on. You Ron Paul guys are so cute.
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We'll have four years of "moderate Obama" with a few placatory programs put through to really cement the rabble vote. Obama Term Deux is the one we really have to worry about... That's when he has nothing to lose and can stop paying lip service to the issues that he really doesn't support/oppose, deep down. Term Limits for a president ensure a four year period of "moderacy" ruination for a country. They basically affirm that the last four years of a presidency are no longer constrained by doing 'what's right by the people'. In the last term, idealism, dogma and underhanded motivations can really take root. If GWB wasn't a classic example of this, nothing is.

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We'll have four years of "moderate Obama" with a few placatory programs but through to really cement the rabble vote. Obama Term Deux is the one we really have to worry about...
As it was with Bush...
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We were in this exact same situation in 1992 and Newt Gingrich led a Republican revolution in 1994. The same thing can happen if we can come up with a well-spoken leader who can inspire the party and the country.J.C. Watts...where are you?

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We'll have four years of "moderate Obama" with a few placatory programs put through to really cement the rabble vote. Obama Term Deux is the one we really have to worry about... That's when he has nothing to lose and can stop paying lip service to the issues that he really doesn't support/oppose, deep down. Term Limits for a president ensure a four year period of "moderacy" ruination for a country. They basically affirm that the last four years of a presidency are no longer constrained by doing 'what's right by the people'. In the last term, idealism, dogma and underhanded motivations can really take root. If GWB wasn't a classic example of this, nothing is.
Yeah, but this assumes that the Dem's will also hold both houses of congress. If the GOP has control of the either house (or both, preferably) then he'll just be a Clinton ( whom I know many of you guys associate with Engles, but in reality was forced to be extremely moderate). If you guys can find some sex scandal to keep him distracted with, he'll be even less effective.
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52/48 isn't exactly a Landslide.I remember When Bush 41 was running at record high Approval Ratings - there was talk of the death of the Democrat Party and it might take a DECADE for it to recover.Then less than 6 Months later Clinton was President Elect and the Republicans were being declared Dead.Then came Newt and the "Contract with America" and the Democrats were Dead again.Then Clinton proved to be made of Teflon and Republicans were on life support.Then Bush 43 "Stole" the election from Gore and Democrats were in tatters.Then Bush's Speech 911 and State of the Union Address were EACH called among the best speeches EVER given by a President and his Approval ratings soared.Then Approval Ratings started dropping, but Bush still beat that guy that people can't even remember anymore.Then more dropping approval ratings and Newsweek asked How do the Republicans Recover?Then the Republicans unite behind a SINGLE candidate months before the Democrats can stop the in-fighting to select a nominee.And even when Republoicans are most vulnerable and should be behind by 10% or more, McCain somehow goes ahead in the Polls!!!Then the stock market tanks and McCain "suspends" his campaign to fix the Credit Crisis - and he drops like a rock......and "plummets" to the points where 52% of voters choose his opponent.52%The gap between winning and losing is narrower than ever in history.

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1) Prescription drugs - Penicillen for a human is $100 and the exact same pill, same manufacturer and all, if ordered for an equine is $5. There is something desperately wrong there. It isnt $100 here. The point is, we're being jacked around by drug companies. I know they need money for more research but they don't have to price gouge their customers.2) Require/demand/regulate that oil companies (BP, Exxon, etc.) spend a certain percentage of profit on finding a way to make us less dependant on foreign oil. NO CEO is worth what the oil company execs are getting paid.What gives anyone the right to dictate how a company spends its profits? If there are no profitable alternatives why should they be saddled with the cost? If there are profitable alternatives they would be the first to jump on them because they have distribution in place. And by definition a CEO is worth what he's getting paid, the market sets rates, and thats the way it should be. Do you really believe that the CEO of Exxon is worth $17 million a year plus bonus while the American public was paying $4+ a gallon for gas? The oil companies SHOULD be extremely worried about us finding an alternative source for power, so it would be in their best interest to find a way to make us less dependant on foreign oil. Call it an incentive for the future of the US. 3) Fix our immigration problem. Either kick them all out quicklyfine the employers that hire them and watch the jobs dry up and the self deportation that started with the economic downturn will do the job. That's a great idea but at this point, we aren't staffed to investigate all the employers. or find a way immediately to get them off social services. I don't think "Give me your tired and hungry" meant they stay here until we all starve to death. NO social services should be available to them until they are paying into Social Security, paying income tax, etc.4) Immediately stop believing that the US is the main source of ensuring peace and prosperity in every squabble in the world. Let someone else take the lead for a while and we'll support as needed. And if they don't, and it endangers us? If it endangers the USA, that's another matter. But we have military forces in areas that are not presenting a threat to the USA. Get out of Iraq now. This is just ignorant and you should know that by now. The constant bombing/demolition just to turn around and rebuild is getting rediculous. "Teach them to fish" and survive on their own and I don't think that require the amount of military forces we have there now. BTW, what is the "war" about now? Saddam is gone, there are no weapons of mass distruction, Osama isn't in Iraq.........so why are we still there?Because until the government stablizes, if we leave we'll be back soon and at much greater cost. We'll be out of there in due time, but it cant be rushed. Why? Why are we there? I'm convinced that the government in Iraq is never going to be stable. It hasn't been stable in the past 1900 years, why would our presense there suddenly stablize them. If/when we leave, it will simply be a matter of time until they are ripping each other to shreads again. Do we go back every time or just never leave? Why?5) Revamp/reconstruct our own social services system. There are thousands, if not millions, on the welfare rolls that should not be there. If it's job loss, spend some money to train them for jobs available now. If it's momma's having babies that can't afford them, set them on the right track and then set them free. More babies should not equal more government aide. Give people the skills needed to get back in the work force and stop throwing money at people that are too lazy to feed themselves.You forgot "and let charities take care of them", because thats what should and I believe will happen. These people aren't going to seek out charities when they can sit at home and have a check dropped off at the mailbox. Government welfare should have a distinct timeline and drop off date.

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1) Prescription drugs - Penicillen for a human is $100 and the exact same pill, same manufacturer and all, if ordered for an equine is $5. There is something desperately wrong there.
Why would anyone need penicillin for a sick horse, to rub it on the bullets?
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Good stuff in here. I'm not sure if my ideas will fit in with Dems or Reps, lefties or righties but here's a few things I wish the government would focus on.1) Prescription drugs - Penicillen for a human is $100 and the exact same pill, same manufacturer and all, if ordered for an equine is $5. There is something desperately wrong there.2) Require/demand/regulate that oil companies (BP, Exxon, etc.) spend a certain percentage of profit on finding a way to make us less dependant on foreign oil. NO CEO is worth what the oil company execs are getting paid.3) Fix our immigration problem. Either kick them all out quickly or find a way immediately to get them off social services. I don't think "Give me your tired and hungry" meant they stay here until we all starve to death. NO social services should be available to them until they are paying into Social Security, paying income tax, etc.4) Immediately stop believing that the US is the main source of ensuring peace and prosperity in every squabble in the world. Let someone else take the lead for a while and we'll support as needed. Get out of Iraq now. The constant bombing/demolition just to turn around and rebuild is getting rediculous. "Teach them to fish" and survive on their own and I don't think that require the amount of military forces we have there now. BTW, what is the "war" about now? Saddam is gone, there are no weapons of mass distruction, Osama isn't in Iraq.........so why are we still there?5) Revamp/reconstruct our own social services system. There are thousands, if not millions, on the welfare rolls that should not be there. If it's job loss, spend some money to train them for jobs available now. If it's momma's having babies that can't afford them, set them on the right track and then set them free. More babies should not equal more government aide. Give people the skills needed to get back in the work force and stop throwing money at people that are too lazy to feed themselves.
Most of this is the opposite of conservatism, which is what I would like to focus on. Get back to conservatism and we are in like flynn.
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1) Prescription drugs - Penicillen for a human is $100 and the exact same pill, same manufacturer and all, if ordered for an equine is $5. There is something desperately wrong there. It isnt $100 here. The point is, we're being jacked around by drug companies. I know they need money for more research but they don't have to price gouge their customers.2) Require/demand/regulate that oil companies (BP, Exxon, etc.) spend a certain percentage of profit on finding a way to make us less dependant on foreign oil. NO CEO is worth what the oil company execs are getting paid.What gives anyone the right to dictate how a company spends its profits? If there are no profitable alternatives why should they be saddled with the cost? If there are profitable alternatives they would be the first to jump on them because they have distribution in place. And by definition a CEO is worth what he's getting paid, the market sets rates, and thats the way it should be. Do you really believe that the CEO of Exxon is worth $17 million a year plus bonus while the American public was paying $4+ a gallon for gas? The oil companies SHOULD be extremely worried about us finding an alternative source for power, so it would be in their best interest to find a way to make us less dependant on foreign oil. Call it an incentive for the future of the US. 3) Fix our immigration problem. Either kick them all out quicklyfine the employers that hire them and watch the jobs dry up and the self deportation that started with the economic downturn will do the job. That's a great idea but at this point, we aren't staffed to investigate all the employers. or find a way immediately to get them off social services. I don't think "Give me your tired and hungry" meant they stay here until we all starve to death. NO social services should be available to them until they are paying into Social Security, paying income tax, etc.4) Immediately stop believing that the US is the main source of ensuring peace and prosperity in every squabble in the world. Let someone else take the lead for a while and we'll support as needed. And if they don't, and it endangers us? If it endangers the USA, that's another matter. But we have military forces in areas that are not presenting a threat to the USA. Get out of Iraq now. This is just ignorant and you should know that by now. The constant bombing/demolition just to turn around and rebuild is getting rediculous. "Teach them to fish" and survive on their own and I don't think that require the amount of military forces we have there now. BTW, what is the "war" about now? Saddam is gone, there are no weapons of mass distruction, Osama isn't in Iraq.........so why are we still there?Because until the government stablizes, if we leave we'll be back soon and at much greater cost. We'll be out of there in due time, but it cant be rushed. Why? Why are we there? I'm convinced that the government in Iraq is never going to be stable. It hasn't been stable in the past 1900 years, why would our presense there suddenly stablize them. If/when we leave, it will simply be a matter of time until they are ripping each other to shreads again. Do we go back every time or just never leave? Why?5) Revamp/reconstruct our own social services system. There are thousands, if not millions, on the welfare rolls that should not be there. If it's job loss, spend some money to train them for jobs available now. If it's momma's having babies that can't afford them, set them on the right track and then set them free. More babies should not equal more government aide. Give people the skills needed to get back in the work force and stop throwing money at people that are too lazy to feed themselves.You forgot "and let charities take care of them", because thats what should and I believe will happen. These people aren't going to seek out charities when they can sit at home and have a check dropped off at the mailbox. Government welfare should have a distinct timeline and drop off date.
You're not doing any better.
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