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In a word - yes. Do you think that if the Republican party wins they won't take it as a mandate to continue to do what they've been doing? The only way to get reform is to deal them a hell of a blow. Personally I'd like to see the Republican Party go back to what they used to be. I used to be a Republican, but I didn't leave them, they left me.
Did I ask you?What drove you away from the party?
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The four person block of conservative (and younger) judges on the Supreme Court is secure. Federal judges are not that big a deal. Getting the GOP to dump the wacky religious ankle-weight it carries is worth a higher price than this lame fear-filled what-if scenario. Any federal judges Obama adds will only offset the conservatives Bush put into place.The GOP needs to desperately re-invent itself and go back to being the party of true fiscal conservatism and staying out of people's private lives. The only way to do this is to tell the religious right to take a hike.
Federal judges are a very big deal.You think that will run off the religious wing? You're nuts.
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Was going to say civil liberty and the war in Iraq Am. But if the Republicans were really honest with themselves they'd realize that Obama and McCain aren't that far apart on most issues. It's just a matter of who they'll give the money to after they've appropriated it from us. Other difference is just how intrusive they envision government to be and where. But any Republican that believes that McCain is conservative is believing a lie and lying to themselves. He's not and never been. But cheer up, looks like Palin's gearing up for 2012.
I think Palin may have a career outside of politics, in the media, possibly a talk show. I read that somewhere.
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Federal judges are a very big deal.You think that will run off the religious wing? You're nuts.
Not at all what I said. I said the best thing that could happen to the GOP is for the religious wing to go away. I have no idea how to go about doing that though.Federal judges are not as important as getting the Republican party back on track. Every president appoints some and the legal system manages to still do a C+ job no matter what.
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Did I ask you?What drove you away from the party?
Pretty much the Republican Party here in Montana. If you want radical religious right wing politics then it's the state for you. I am a Christian also but it's just crazy to think that by forcing your views on everyone else, you're preserving the United States as a Christian nation. It's not been for a long time. Christian-based yes but Christian no. Anyway, it's also been Bush's attack on our civil liberties as well. It's not just the Patriot Act, although that gets most of whatever press that talks about it at all. Anyway, for a long time, the Republicans were for smaller government. Then slowly, it's been more of government intruding into citizen's private lives. There's other things that have pissed me off at the Republicans here too. Like the kill off any piece of legislation even if it's in the best interests of the state just to get back at the Democrats. The Republican House refused to pass a budget during the regular session because it was Brian Schweitzer's budget and they wanted to score points off of him. So basically they forced a special session at who knows how many dollars because they wanted to make some kind of point. And then they went ahead and passed basically the same budget that was presented to them in the regular session. It's this kind of stuff that makes me madder than hell.So when I read the quote from John McCain saying "I'll embarrass a Democrat any time I get the chance." it makes me think of the state house Republicans in this state that'll go out of their way to cost us just so they can stick it to our Democratic governor and the Democrats in the state senate.
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Think about the hundreds of federal judges that Barry and his liberal buddies in the senate can appoint without anyone to stop or even slow them down. Is teaching the republican party a lesson worth the decades of destruction that can cause?
Another alarmist statement completely unsubstantiated.Keep up the good work, Republicans!
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I believe that the faster we can accelerate the inevitable pendulum swing to the left, the faster it will reach it's apogee and hopefully arc back downwards to a regrouped, coherent Republican party that is very, very different from the shameful abortion that they are today
I've heard this argument, and kind of like it. It's clear that right now neither party cares about anything but political power at the expense of ordinary citizens, and the only way it's going to change is to piss off so many people that enough people rise up. There is this rumble of discontent bubbling below the surface. It showed it's face with Ross Perot, it's showing it's face with Ron Paul, and I'm not even sure either one of those cases was/is because of their policies, it's because people are so sick of what the two big parties offer that they'll take anyone who promises to stand up to the status quo.It's very likely that after 4 years of Obama, if the Republicans haven't reorganized and revitalized into a coherent party, a third party will come out of nowhere and reach critical mass -- not necessarily enough to get elected, but to have a loud, clear voice.
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Think about the hundreds of federal judges that Barry and his liberal buddies in the senate can appoint without anyone to stop or even slow them down. Is teaching the republican party a lesson worth the decades of destruction that can cause?
If it makes the Republicans find a little thing called "principles", then absolutely yes.
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The GOP needs to desperately re-invent itself and go back to being the party of true fiscal conservatism and staying out of people's private lives.
We found something to agree on!!!!QFT
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Not at all what I said. I said the best thing that could happen to the GOP is for the religious wing to go away. I have no idea how to go about doing that though.Federal judges are not as important as getting the Republican party back on track. Every president appoints some and the legal system manages to still do a C+ job no matter what.
Yea, cut off half it's base.There's a democrat wet dreamThis infomercial is what you get when you have too much money ( from possible illegal contributions from foreign countries who may also holding your real birth certificate and you share the same middle name with half the populous) all while giving vast sums back to hollywood for producing a well made propaganda piece ( with said monies).
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Yea, cut off half it's base.There's a democrat wet dreamThis infomercial is what you get when you have too much money ( from possible illegal contributions from foreign countries who may also holding your real birth certificate and you share the same middle name with half the populous) all while giving vast sums back to hollywood for producing a well made propaganda piece ( with said monies).
Wonder how much of said money came from overseas?
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Yea, cut off half it's base.There's a democrat wet dream
I doubt anyone is suggesting that the Republican party have mass Jesus purges.It's more like, I don't want my country run by a party that predicates it's social framework on superstition and wizardry and even though it's perfectly OK for you to believe in that in your own home, the instant those notions creep outward and start to cast a pallor on real world politics, you're going too far.I was raised in a religiously 'mixed' household. While we weren't deeply faithful, we never had that visceral hatred for religious folks- the kind that tends to come from purely secular, leftist type households. I was always open to the possibility that there was a god, I would even say for a time that I actually believed it. I can pin down the instant- the very moment- that I realized how absurd it all was (to me) and why I just couldn't let those things influence my own decision making process. We were driving back from an antique run in Northern Mississippi and pulled into a Ramada hotel in Georgia. They didn't have wireless internet but they did have a PC in the lobby, so after checking in, I sent the woman up to the room while I checked my email before bed. I sat down at the computer and noticed that there was already an open Internet explorer window, minimized at the bottom of the toolbar. I maximized it- it was a logged-in hotmail account that clearly belonged to the owner (XXXXXpatel@hotmail.com)Anyway, as I was reading through his email (sorry, I have no scruples about this sort of thing), I came to one of those "forwarded" ones with the title (paraphrase) FW:FW:FW: Open this For A Happy Day! So, I opened it, and it said (in English)-" Remember That Ganesh Always Loves You !!!!!!!!!!!!" and had an attached picture much like this.ganesh-full.jpgAnyway, I couldn't help but laugh.They actually believe that this absurd Elephant-headed cartoon thing is some sort of a 'god' that exists out there in the ether, minding their well being and impacting things down here on earth. Unfortunately (for the continued durability of the relationship between me and my god), the line of reasoning didn't stop there... I thought about it a lot, later that night. "Why is it that the Elephant-Man god is a joke, while my "god" seems more so much more reasonable?" "Is my god any more 'reasonable' than theirs?".. and then the inevitable, "Is the idea of "god" in any shape 'reasonable' at all?"From there, I thought pretty deeply about it- why belief in Deity is so universal to humans,, what would motivate people to be so seemingly irrational in this one regard... After contrasting these thoughts to everything I knew about people and human nature, I came to the conclusion that every atheist has. God is a creation of man- an intellectual pacifier that is flatly rooted in mans fears. Anyway, the point of the above wasn't to drift on some tangent or debate about why the notion of god is just so absurd, nor is it intended to lampoon people who do believe in god. The point is, I wonder what the Jesus wing of the Republican party would think if suddenly, Hotel Owners became the largest party contributor and we had to endure politicians talking about their deep beliefs in the magical Hindu Elephant Man. What religios Republicans need to understand is that their beliefs in the immortality of some Jew who got spiked to a big, wooden "t" appear just as ridiculous as the Pachyderm Savior, and until they can learn to keep those beliefs to themselves, they're cutting out a lot of people who may agree with a lot of their other fiscal and social platforms, but who just can't bring themselves to thank Ganesh for it.
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Scram, that is a valid point you make, albeit a long story to get there. But if in 20, 30, 40 years our society at large had a belief system that was along those lines, they I would expect the government to reflect that in some way.We govern to the masses, and our job is to reflect societies wishes, with out an overt theology or dogma, but to allow the people to choose for themselves.If over time 80% of this country were hindu, then I would expect there to be governmental changes that coincided with that, but at the same time hold the constitutions principles first.

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Scram, that is a valid point you make, albeit a long story to get there. But if in 20, 30, 40 years our society at large had a belief system that was along those lines, they I would expect the government to reflect that in some way.We govern to the masses, and our job is to reflect societies wishes, with out an overt theology or dogma, but to allow the people to choose for themselves.If over time 80% of this country were hindu, then I would expect there to be governmental changes that coincided with that, but at the same time hold the constitutions principles first.
I'm not suggesting that the influence of religion on politics isn't understandable' given the pervasiveness of religion in this country. I think the question we must ask ourselves is, is that influence "reasonable" even though it may be popular? I believe it isn't. Lots of people may believe in things that are totally wrong, or at a minimum, not a legitimate foundation for downward social management. Government is there to manage the affairs of man. Mankind has had a several millennia to debate the need for government and unfortunately, the debate is over. Government is a necessary function of any society that endeavors to be productive. Government, by it's very essence, acts in a role that has nothing to do with whatever roles are purported to be the roles of "god", When we try to create an unnatural confluence between the two- between the affairs of man and the interests of a "god" - it's impossible for us to act within the framework of reason.That we as a society have forcibly conjoined the two- god and government- is a grave error, motivated by people who are desperately trying to create an air of 'real-life legitimacy' to their concepts of god that are otherwise unquantifiable. On this issue, the Europeans have us crushed.
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Scram, that is a valid point you make, albeit a long story to get there. But if in 20, 30, 40 years our society at large had a belief system that was along those lines, they I would expect the government to reflect that in some way.We govern to the masses, and our job is to reflect societies wishes, with out an overt theology or dogma, but to allow the people to choose for themselves.If over time 80% of this country were hindu, then I would expect there to be governmental changes that coincided with that, but at the same time hold the constitutions principles first.
With population trends Muslims will be the majority of several European countries within a few generations. Jihad doesnt always use bombs.
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I'm not suggesting that the influence of religion on politics isn't understandable' given the pervasiveness of religion in this country. I think the question we must ask ourselves is, is that influence "reasonable" even though it may be popular? I believe it isn't. I believe that lots of people may believe in things that are totally wrong, or at a minimum, not a legitimate foundation for downward social management. Government is there to manage the affairs of man. Mankind has had a several millennia to debate the need for government and unfortunately, the debate is over. Government is a necessary function of any society that endeavors to be productive. Government, by it's very essence, acts in a role that has nothing to do with whatever roles are purported to be the roles of "god", When we try to create an unnatural confluence between the two- between the affairs of man and the interests of a "god" - it's impossible for us to act within the framework of reason.That we as a society have forcibly conjoined the two- god and government- is a grave error, motivated by people who are desperately trying to create an air of 'real-life legitimacy' to their concepts of god that are otherwise unquantifiable. On this issue, the Europeans have us crushed.
this. period. and not because of the last sentence. it's true, though, imo.
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"That we as a society have forcibly conjoined the two- god and government- is a grave error, motivated by people who are desperately trying to create an air of 'real-life legitimacy' to their concepts of god that are otherwise unquantifiable. On this issue, the Europeans have us crushed."I disagree, I think for a largely Christian country we've done a remarkable job of NOT conjoining the two. And if the Europeans "have us crushed" its because they have become "more godless", not because they have found some better way to balance the two.

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"That we as a society have forcibly conjoined the two- god and government- is a grave error, motivated by people who are desperately trying to create an air of 'real-life legitimacy' to their concepts of god that are otherwise unquantifiable. On this issue, the Europeans have us crushed."I disagree, I think for a largely Christian country we've done a remarkable job of NOT conjoining the two. And if the Europeans "have us crushed" its because they have become "more godless", not because they have found some better way to balance the two.
Stupid Americans putting religious freedom in their Constitution.
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"That we as a society have forcibly conjoined the two- god and government- is a grave error, motivated by people who are desperately trying to create an air of 'real-life legitimacy' to their concepts of god that are otherwise unquantifiable. On this issue, the Europeans have us crushed."I disagree, I think for a largely Christian country we've done a remarkable job of NOT conjoining the two. And if the Europeans "have us crushed" its because they have become "more godless", not because they have found some better way to balance the two.
if you wanted to say "more godless" = secular, you're right. churches still exist over here, you know...
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if you wanted to say "more godless" = secular, you're right. churches still exist over here, you know...
Yes they do. But polls Ive read show a distinct drop in the percentage of Europeans who attend Church even on a casual basis, and a drop in the percentage who believe in god at all. (You're new here...I'm an atheist, so Im not implying thats a bad thing, I just take issue with a claim that somehow governance/legislation in the US is unduly influenced by religion.)
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I doubt anyone is suggesting that the Republican party have mass Jesus purges.It's more like, I don't want my country run by a party that predicates it's social framework on superstition and wizardry and even though it's perfectly OK for you to believe in that in your own home, the instant those notions creep outward and start to cast a pallor on real world politics, you're going too far.Anyway, the point of the above wasn't to drift on some tangent or debate about why the notion of god is just so absurd, nor is it intended to lampoon people who do believe in god. The point is, I wonder what the Jesus wing of the Republican party would think if suddenly, Hotel Owners became the largest party contributor and we had to endure politicians talking about their deep beliefs in the magical Hindu Elephant Man. What religios Republicans need to understand is that their beliefs in the immortality of some Jew who got spiked to a big, wooden "t" appear just as ridiculous as the Pachyderm Savior, and until they can learn to keep those beliefs to themselves, they're cutting out a lot of people who may agree with a lot of their other fiscal and social platforms, but who just can't bring themselves to thank Ganesh for it.
Leaving the religious debate out,The religious right isn't asking for Jesus to be mentioned in the pledge, or the schools or have any requirements at all. In fact most of the church people I know are more fearful of the government imposing on them if they start getting public funding for their kids private schools etc. Nevada has more churches per capita than any other state, yet it has legalized prositution and gambling. The religious right wants to have their voices heard, and since they are the single largest voting block, you'd think they'd get a little attention.We've had a large Christian base since the beginning of this country, and so far so good. To pretend that Judeo-Christian influences are potentially harmful to the republican party is nothing more than the far left telling us how we can be better bridge builders with them. i.e. forsake our beliefs and adopt there's.Now here's the funny part. Piss off the religious right and you have a republican party that will have about 1/3 the membership of the democrats. I guess fear of the hotel owners who worship elephants isn't a good enough reason to me for the republican party to make itself irrelevant as a political party.Don't believe me, vote in a pro-abortion candidate next time, see how strong your " we're not with those religious guys" republican numbers are without us.You'd have to all learn to speak spanish and vote for Cinco de Mayo to replace Easter to ever have a chance in any national election again.Or you can go on pretending the religious right is powerless and small in numbers.
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if you wanted to say "more godless" = secular, you're right. churches still exist over here, you know...
Aren't they paying the salaries of the Luthern pastors in the Netherlands or some Scandanvian country?That's a bit more of a connection than a seperation
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