**** It...let Obama Win

[brvheart 1,752]

This is such awesome logic. Pick one of the most public wastes of human life and use it as an example for people who are well off not working hard. I see someone like my dad who spent his whole life working at various jobs before he started a company with less than zero money to his name 20 years ago and built it up to be a great company that employs a few dozen people now that it's seeing some real success. For every retarded celebutant with daddy's credit card or corrupt enron executive you think should get the crap taxed out of them, there are a dozen hard working entrepreneurs in the same tax bracket who are out there creating jobs, innovating, and working their asses off. Someday, I hope to be one of them, and I don't want a bigger proportion of my income spent for me than already is. In other news, i don't think there's anyone here calling mccain a superstar. I'm sure not. But i am far more anti-obama than pro-obama, and it so happens that the non-obama option is mccain.

exactly.

[strategy 4]

In other news, i don't think there's anyone here calling mccain a superstar. I'm sure not. But i am far more anti-obama than pro-obama, and it so happens that the non-obama option is mccain.

the problem with this, in my humble opinion, is that it doesn't encourage accountability. the party will not listen to your pleas for smaller government if they are never questioned when they fail to deliver on that promise.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

the problem with this, in my humble opinion, is that it doesn't encourage accountability. the party will not listen to your pleas for smaller government if they are never questioned when they fail to deliver on that promise.

I think we both agree that it sucks. I'm personally for someone who's at least promising the smaller government than someone who is promising the opposite. Lesser of two evils imo.

[irishguy 14]

This is such awesome logic. Pick one of the most public wastes of human life and use it as an example for people who are well off not working hard. I see someone like my dad who spent his whole life working at various jobs before he started a company with less than zero money to his name 20 years ago and built it up to be a great company that employs a few dozen people now that it's seeing some real success. For every retarded celebutant with daddy's credit card or corrupt enron executive you think should get the crap taxed out of them, there are a dozen hard working entrepreneurs in the same tax bracket who are out there creating jobs, innovating, and working their asses off. Someday, I hope to be one of them, and I don't want a bigger proportion of my income spent for me than already is. In other news, i don't think there's anyone here calling mccain a superstar. I'm sure not. But i am far more anti-obama than pro-obama, and it so happens that the non-obama option is mccain.

The logic was awesome in that I was pointing out that not every well off person is productive just as not every poor person is lazy. The logic of pointing out the Paris Hilton's of the world is no more absurd then those that continually say hard working people have money and lazy people don't. It is not a cut and dry issue and everyone is not the caliber of your father.I respect the fact that your not calling McCain a superstar but often on this site in the constant bash Obama and defend McCain that is the message the comes across.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

The logic was awesome in that I was pointing out that not every well off person is productive just as not every poor person is lazy. The logic of pointing out the Paris Hilton's of the world is no more absurd then those that continually say hard working people have money and lazy people don't. It is not a cut and dry issue and everyone is not the caliber of your father.I respect the fact that your not calling McCain a superstar but often on this site in the constant bash Obama and defend McCain that is the message the comes across.

Really? You seriously believe there is no causal relationship between hard work or discipline and wealth? Because that's how it sounds, and that's completely insane.

[irishguy 14]

Really? You seriously believe there is no causal relationship between hard work or discipline and wealth? Because that's how it sounds, and that's completely insane.

By saying not everyone who is well off is hard working and not everyone is poor is lazy it sounds like this? Perhaps you've missed the not everyone part of my point. Clearly a large number of upper class are hard working but there are those that aren't just as there are a number of poor people who are lazy but there are those that are poor and hardworking. I don't know how you'd pull insanity out of what I wrote but I hope this clears it up.

[strategy 4]

I think we both agree that it sucks. I'm personally for someone who's at least promising the smaller government than someone who is promising the opposite. Lesser of two evils imo.

we'll see. I'd like to believe that obama might not be evil incarnate, just because he's the guy we're likely to see sworn in at this juncture. honestly, no one really knows what his intentions are. in a perfect world, we would have a candidate we could depend on to reduce spending and get the govt's budget back in order.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

By saying not everyone who is well off is hard working and not everyone is poor is lazy it sounds like this? Perhaps you've missed the not everyone part of my point. Clearly a large number of upper class are hard working but there are those that aren't just as there are a number of poor people who are lazy but there are those that are poor and hardworking. I don't know how you'd pull insanity out of what I wrote but I hope this clears it up.

Lazy is something you have brought up quite a bit. I agree with you that there are indeed of a number of poor people that aren't' lazy, but what I don't agree with is that there are a significant number of people who couldn't get out of the hole if they made different decisions. Ok, now you can say that I shouldn't judge other peoples behavior. Ok, fine, I would agree with that, if you would agree that I didn't have to pay for the previously mentioned poor choices. Recently I was job searching, and went online to look for dealing jobs(blackjack, poker dealer ect.) Every single casino I searched were short handed(I am not talking about Vegas, though the Vegas casinos I looked at were all hiring), I mean there were across the board job opportunities with chance for advancement. Many only required a GED, few required a college degree. There has to come a point where tough love takes over. If you want to provide basic food, shelter, and medical, for the people who absolutely refuse to live any kind of disciplined life, Ok, I will go for that, it would be cheaper than what Obama is proposing, and the Dems have been doing for the past 25+ years. A shitload of money has been wasted on "the poor" without the required result. What I can't stomach is trying to tell the failures of society that the reason they are failing is because the hard working folks and big business's are somehow screwing them. This is the exact same phenomenon that has led to terrorism. These oil rich nations have hugely wealthy leaders(from oil revenue) yet their populace is dirt poor and uneducated. For instance the govt of Saudi Arabia leaders support and cooperate with the US govt, but still promote anti-American propaganda among their citizens. This is the exact same class war propaganda that makes up almost entirely the Obama campaign.

[irishguy 14]

Lazy is something you have brought up quite a bit. I agree with you that there are indeed of a number of poor people that aren't' lazy, but what I don't agree with is that there are a significant number of people who couldn't get out of the hole if they made different decisions. Ok, now you can say that I shouldn't judge other peoples behavior. Ok, fine, I would agree with that, if you would agree that I didn't have to pay for the previously mentioned poor choices of others. Recently I was job searching, and went online to look for dealing jobs(blackjack, poker dealer ect.) Every single casino I searched were short handed(I am not talking about Vegas, though the Vegas casinos I looked at were all hiring), I mean there were across the board job opportunities with chance for advancement. Many only required a GED, few required a college degree. There has to come a point where tough love takes over. If you want to provide basic food, shelter, and medical, for the people who absolutely refuse to live any kind of disciplined life, Ok, I will go for that, it would be cheaper than what Obama is proposing, and the Dems have been doing for the past 25+ years. A shitload of money has been wasted on "the poor" without the required result. What I can't stomach is trying to tell the failures of society that the reason they are failing is because the hard working folks and big business's are somehow screwing them. This is the exact same phenomenon that has led to terrorism. These oil rich nations have hugely wealthy leaders(from oil revenue) yet their populace is dirt poor and uneducated. For instance the govt of Saudi Arabia leaders support and cooperate with the US govt, but still promote anti-American propaganda among their citizens. This is the exact same class war propaganda that makes up almost entirely the Obama campaign.

I am fairly certain that you and I have had this exact same conversation before so i really don't want to redo it but I do acknowlegde that yes a number of those who are poor have made some bad choices in there lives. I believe the previous conversation is where we got into cyclical nature of poverty etc. If I locate the thread I'll link it.EDIT: We'd gone through this same conversation in the Obama and the Plummer thread

[Zealous Donkey 0]

I am fairly certain that you and I have had this exact same conversation before so i really don't want to redo it but I do acknowlegde that yes a number of those who are poor have made some bad choices in there lives. I believe the previous conversation is where we got into cyclical nature of poverty etc. If I locate the thread I'll link it.EDIT: We'd gone through this same conversation in the Obama and the Plummer thread

The thing is Irish, I would be for a safety net. Hell, I am for slavery reparations, as long is there an agreement that once they are done it can't be brought up again. Thats right, I am saying I(who have never owned a slave) will sustain a onetime tax increase to people who were never slaves in order to get them to quit making excuses and living on their victimology. The safety net, reparations, would be cheaper than spending the same trillion dollars over and over again. Is no one curious about what has happened to the tons and tons of money that have been spent in the past 40 years in the name of social justice.The liberal message, now echoed by Obama is this: Hey the reason you are having trouble has nothing to do with the fact that you don't value education, nor does it have anything to do with the lack of respect for women or family in your culture. Nor does it have anything to do with the lack of work ethic. No the reason things aren't going well for you is because the tobaaco, pharmacutical, computer, banking, wall street businesses making so much money.

[El Guapo 8]

Not sure where to put this, and I don't want to start a new thread, but apparently some mock pollsters went to Harlem and other inner city areas (I admit right now I am hearing this second hand and have not researched it at all).When they asked who they are voting for the overwhelming majority said Barack Obama, when asked the follow up question "What do you think about his running mate, Sarah Palin?" Again, and overwhelming majority said she was great and that they would do good things together yada yada yada.Not really sure what to make of this.

[vbnautilus 48]

Not sure where to put this, and I don't want to start a new thread, but apparently some mock pollsters went to Harlem and other inner city areas (I admit right now I am hearing this second hand and have not researched it at all).When they asked who they are voting for the overwhelming majority said Barack Obama, when asked the follow up question "What do you think about his running mate, Sarah Palin?" Again, and overwhelming majority said she was great and that they would do good things together yada yada yada.Not really sure what to make of this.

Yeah I think someone posted the youtube to this already; it was a Howard Stern segment. People are stoopid.

[rjkdb8 1]

Not sure where to put this, and I don't want to start a new thread, but apparently some mock pollsters went to Harlem and other inner city areas (I admit right now I am hearing this second hand and have not researched it at all).When they asked who they are voting for the overwhelming majority said Barack Obama, when asked the follow up question "What do you think about his running mate, Sarah Palin?" Again, and overwhelming majority said she was great and that they would do good things together yada yada yada.Not really sure what to make of this.

Treat this the same as when you hear someone say they cannot support Obama because he is a Muslim.

[Vandees 0]

The liberal message, now echoed by Obama is this: Hey the reason you are having trouble has nothing to do with the fact that you don't value education, nor does it have anything to do with the lack of respect for women or family in your culture. Nor does it have anything to do with the lack of work ethic. No the reason things aren't going well for you is because the tobaaco, pharmacutical, computer, banking, wall street businesses making so much money.I like this quote. Preach on. Learn, work hard, respect yourself and others and ANYONE can be a success in this country. Anybody. That people refuse to believe this is a problem. But of course, since I've never been on welfare and was raised in the suburbs, I don't know anything about poverty (even though I worked fulltime overnights while attending and paying for college myself).

[Zealous Donkey 0]

Treat this the same as when you hear someone say they cannot support Obama because he is a Muslim.

I have never heard that from anyone except democrats accusing republicans of saying it. Again, I read several blogs, many conservative, and have never heard anyone say that he is a muslim.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

The liberal message, now echoed by Obama is this: Hey the reason you are having trouble has nothing to do with the fact that you don't value education, nor does it have anything to do with the lack of respect for women or family in your culture. Nor does it have anything to do with the lack of work ethic. No the reason things aren't going well for you is because the tobacco, pharmaceutical, computer, banking, wall street businesses making so much money.I like this quote. Preach on. Learn, work hard, respect yourself and others and ANYONE can be a success in this country. Anybody. That people refuse to believe this is a problem. But of course, since I've never been on welfare and was raised in the suburbs, I don't know anything about poverty (even though I worked full time overnights while attending and paying for college myself).

Again, I am not against assisting people temporarily to help them out of poverty, I am against confiscating billions of dollars in the name of helping the poor and then not helping them. I am also against class warfare that the democrats have been pushing all of my life.

[rjkdb8 1]

I have never heard that from anyone except democrats accusing republicans of saying it. Again, I read several blogs, many conservative, and have never heard anyone say that he is a muslim.

Well, i haven't heard anyone declare that Palin is Obama's running mate, i just suggested that the two claims be treated in the same way.But if you really haven't heard anyone make that claim you have had your head in the sand. Google it. There are countless viral emails making that claim, and one of them is currently #1 on snopes' list of the "hottest urban legends."http://www.snopes.com/info/top25uls.rssLast week, when Marcia Stirman, chairman of Otero County Republican Women in New Mexico, said of Obama in a letter to the local newspaper: “He’s a Muslim socialist,” it was national news.http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gNWZ7sC...QGTeVgD940BOV80And here is a Pew Research Center poll from last summer that found that 12% of Americans believe Sen. Obama is Muslim.http://pewresearch.org/databank/dailynumber/?NumberID=509

[BigLebowski 0]

Not sure where to put this, and I don't want to start a new thread, but apparently some mock pollsters went to Harlem and other inner city areas (I admit right now I am hearing this second hand and have not researched it at all).When they asked who they are voting for the overwhelming majority said Barack Obama, when asked the follow up question "What do you think about his running mate, Sarah Palin?" Again, and overwhelming majority said she was great and that they would do good things together yada yada yada.Not really sure what to make of this.

I'll tell you what to think of it. Get your head out of the GOP's ass and realize the same shit happens on both sides.You guys throw this shit around like only Obama supporters are this stupid. On a weekly basis Maher runs clips of....GASP....stupid ass republicans (and democrats alike) that can't name one legitimate reason why they are voting for said candidate. How is that different than knowing who is Obama's VP pick? Oh yeah...it's stupid black people instead of stupid white people. Anyone who reads the political threads knows who wouldn't give Obama credit if there was evidence he was the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.Since everyone seems to have missed it.....McCain is now endorsing direct socialistic intervention in the foreclosure fiasco. I want to hear someone try to argue this is for the greater good and it is what the democratic congress should have mandated in the first place.

[Loismustdie 0]

we'll see. I'd like to believe that obama might not be evil incarnate, just because he's the guy we're likely to see sworn in at this juncture. honestly, no one really knows what his intentions are. in a perfect world, we would have a candidate we could depend on to reduce spending and get the govt's budget back in order.

You don't know what his intentions are because you are not listening. Simple as that.

[Loismustdie 0]

I'll tell you what to think of it. Get your head out of the GOP's ass and realize the same shit happens on both sides.You guys throw this shit around like only Obama supporters are this stupid. On a weekly basis Maher runs clips of....GASP....stupid ass republicans (and democrats alike) that can't name one legitimate reason why they are voting for said candidate. How is that different than knowing who is Obama's VP pick? Oh yeah...it's stupid black people instead of stupid white people. Anyone who reads the political threads knows who wouldn't give Obama credit if there was evidence he was the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.Since everyone seems to have missed it.....McCain is now endorsing direct socialistic intervention in the foreclosure fiasco. I want to hear someone try to argue this is for the greater good and it is what the democratic congress should have mandated in the first place.

I disagree with McCain on that. He still is a better choice than Obama. Frankly, there are thousands of people in this country who are better choices than Obama. But, we must make history. History must be made. It's going to be awesome when the first black president mutilates this country unrecognizable. Way to help race relations, my man!!

[strategy's_touch 0]

You don't know what his intentions are because you are not listening. Simple as that.

lol? I've listened to a few hours of his speeches over the last few months, including his acceptance speech. I know what he says he intends to do, but I'm not dumb enough to think his campaign babble will correlate with the realities of his presidency.

[CaneBrain 95]

You don't know what his intentions are because you are not listening. Simple as that.

Show me a president whose presidency looked anything like their campaign message. Just one. Bush jr was going to be a uniter, remember? A fiscal conservative? I am going with the smart guy over the old guy/crazy christian gal pu pu platter.

[Loismustdie 0]

lol? I've listened to a few hours of his speeches over the last few months, including his acceptance speech. I know what he says he intends to do, but I'm not dumb enough to think his campaign babble will correlate with the realities of his presidency.

Except what he intends to do is doable, in that he can ****ing do it, like it's been done before, with disastrous results, and he will do it because he believes in the ideas anyway, he has his whole adult life. If you think he will recognize that he is wrong when you know he is I can't help you. The difference is this- if Bush would have told me what Obama is saying I would not vote for him. Obama is giving us the worst possible solutions, brazenly, and you are still willing to vote for him because "Aww, he won't REALLY do that, cmon, no one does what they say they will." Dude, that's stupid. Like, really stupid.

[strategy 4]

Except what he intends to do is doable, in that he can ****ing do it, like it's been done before, with disastrous results, and he will do it because he believes in the ideas anyway, he has his whole adult life. If you think he will recognize that he is wrong when you know he is I can't help you. The difference is this- if Bush would have told me what Obama is saying I would not vote for him. Obama is giving us the worst possible solutions, brazenly, and you are still willing to vote for him because "Aww, he won't REALLY do that, cmon, no one does what they say they will." Dude, that's stupid. Like, really stupid.

obama has promised much to many while simultaneously pledging to do it without adding to the budget deficit. he will effectively take himself out of the running for re-election if he follows through on all of the programs he's promising before the budget is in order. so, to respond to this ridiculous diatribe: no, it is not in his best interests to go forward with his established goals in the near term, and I guarantee he is well aware of that fact.also, it'd be great if you could stop framing this like it's some heated discussion between two people on opposite ends of the spectrum.

[Loismustdie 0]

obama has promised much to many while simultaneously pledging to do it without adding to the budget deficit. he will effectively take himself out of the running for re-election if he follows through on all of the programs he's promising before the budget is in order. so, to respond to this ridiculous diatribe: no, it is not in his best interests to go forward with his established goals in the near term, and I guarantee he is well aware of that fact.also, it'd be great if you could stop framing this like it's some heated discussion between two people on opposite ends of the spectrum.

The thing is, it's very heated for me. I believe that Obama could care less about re-election. All he wants to do is give the country a nice push in the left direction, because that's what he believes in. Have you listened to his past and present speeches? They are the same, he never goes off message. He is incredibly clear about his intentions.