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thats because you don't really have any points.
Wrong. That is because my points aren't things that can be shown to you in a little text box on a website. Spirituality is something you experience. If you don't have the experience, then there's nothing to discuss. Experience. Not blabbering. You ask me to prove something that is entirely experiential. So you know it all. Great. I now have no interest in speaking with you. Next!I see I am wasting my time with these ones, but maybe some lurker will get something out of what I said.
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Wrong. That is because my points aren't things that can be shown to you in a little text box on a website. Spirituality is something you experience. If you don't have the experience, then there's nothing to discuss. Experience. Not blabbering. You ask me to prove something that is entirely experiential. So you know it all. Great. I now have no interest in speaking with you. Next!I see I am wasting my time with these ones, but maybe some lurker will get something out of what I said.
you're making stuff up and passing it off as something you know to be true. you have no factual basis for your opinions.
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Antistuff,You make no sense. Something is true if someone wrote it somewhere that I can site? God, why am I having this conversation? My friend, I just hope you are 22 and under. There's more to life than the confines of your narrowly determined "facts".
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So, what is God's reasoning for the genocides in Africa? Were they just assholes too? Took their starvation/disease for granted?
Nope, you forget that everything awesome is god's will, but everything not so great is something outside of his control that can be conveniently ignored.
I think you need to put down the bible and educate yourself.
QFT
I'm starting to sense that you guys don't understand that the Bible is the Word of God...Of course, I can see how you guys are wise enough to know all truth without it.
Except that there is actually zero proof that anything written in any relgious book ever is the word of god.Oh wait i'm being ignorant and confining myself to the limitations of facts, evidence and logical reasoning, how terrible of me.
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Nope, you forget that everything awesome is god's will, but everything not so great is something outside of his control that can be conveniently ignored. QFTExcept that there is actually zero proof that anything written in any relgious book ever is the word of god.Oh wait i'm being ignorant and confining myself to the limitations of facts, evidence and logical reasoning, how terrible of me.
I'm not sure who you are talking to??? When did I ever mention god's will?Proof is in the experience. How else could any of the stuff written in spiritual books be proven? Someone please come up with a repeatable scientific experiment to verify the truth of spiritual books. It can't be done. Oh well. Peace. This is dumb. I feel like I am surrounded by high schoolers who think they know everything but no one is telling them they barely even got out the gates yet.
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...deleted it cus, who really cares anyway??? Sometimes a dying hors needs to be put out of her misery, right?EDIT:Sorry everyone. I probably shouldn't have come out of lurkdom just to talk about spirituality. People seem to think I care what they think on the matter, and I guess that is the tone/climate of this forum. I think I will just go back to lurkdom, and enjoy the interesting political discussions. Peace.

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Antistuff,You make no sense. Something is true if someone wrote it somewhere that I can site?
i said nothing to imply that. you're drawing conclusions based on our own biases. its cute, in an adorable puppy with distemper sort of way.
God, why am I having this conversation?
i see what you are trying to do with this attitude here. it doesn't work. you probably don't understand what you are tying to do. thats even cuter.
My friend, I just hope you are 22 and under. There's more to life than the confines of your narrowly determined "facts".
again, you're drawing conclusion based on your own biases. by the very nature of what facts are, there can, in fact, be nothing more than them. everything that's not fact is fiction. duuuuhhhhhhh.
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i said nothing to imply that. you're drawing conclusions based on our own biases. its cute, in an adorable puppy with distemper sort of way. i see what you are trying to do with this attitude here. it doesn't work. you probably don't understand what you are tying to do. thats even cuter. again, you're drawing conclusion based on your own biases. by the very nature of what facts are, there can, in fact, be nothing more than them. everything that's not fact is fiction. duuuuhhhhhhh.
Blah x3.Wait let me edit. It's nothing against any of you. This conversation was dead from the start. It is impossible to convey what I know to you. Bye.
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fyp: However, there is indeed a correlation between liberal University indoctrination and likelihood of strong religious belief.
Another way of saying it is that the more one accepts 21st century knowledge the less one accepts 1st century knowledge. Also, the population of people who score very high on knowledge-independent intelligence tests are highly skewed against strong religious belief.
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I was talking with a gentleman at work a few nights ago and I was saying how I just didn't think this country could economically handle an Obama presidency and he sighed and pointed to the sky and said,"It's up to him." It stopped me in my tracks, and I will tell you why. Because, I had completely let that part of the equation mentally slide for me. There are multitudes of reasons for this, but I truly let my core down, in that I do believe that when it comes to the U.S. and it's leaders Gods will is ultimately done. I believe this above all else. My friend at works gentle reminder was a true blessing. Now, to understand why God would let someone like Obama come into power is another question, and I have some ideas. Food for thought- we have had a heck of a time through most of the Bush administration, job growth, the opportunity to buy and sell homes and make money for no real reason, what did we do with it? Largely, and this includes some people I know, we were greedy, wasteful, decadent, God gave us opportunity to thrive and as a country we acted like assholes. Not all, but a good amount. Basic christian values went out the window as we saw dollar signs- not all, but a good amount. I am currently thinking that it's quite possible God is pissed as can be at the degeneracy of our nation and is just saying,"O.k., here you go. Now look how bad it can get." I mean, he had his people enslaved numerous times, Gods not above an ass whippin, or just long term torture until those who wouldn't bow before, do. So, without getting to religous I think what I am trying to say is as a country we just may deserve what we are about to receive. What many of you seem to think is the next best thing is the opposite of Gods love of this country, it's the manifestation of his wrath. I will be gone for a day or so, play nice.
WOW. I knew you were a religious nut, but this is truly amazing. The crap quoted above is barely a notch above the diatribe of the KKK or other hate groups. But you believe in the loving Christ right? Turn the other cheek and all that? Seems like your stuck in the old testament. Love using a fairy tale to justify idiocy. Your a real peach.
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And you don't need to say much to show you are narrow-minded.There's no onus on me to prove jack shiza to you. Because I don't care to. ... I am not here so I can satisfy your curiosity about my life. Should I write it all down, so that I can "prove" to some people who already have it all figured out? Ha! There is generally no point in trying to convince the unconvince-able, and I only have so much time in the day. I dole out my time to people who are genuinely interested, not people who apparently know everything already. ...* if you aren't then maybe its cus you suck* maybe you suck because you are arrogant?* maybe you suck because you are missing giant part of what it means to be human? <-- <-- <--* get your own proof
I now have no interest in speaking with you. Next!I see I am wasting my time with these ones, but maybe some lurker will get something out of what I said.
God, why am I having this conversation? My friend, I just hope you are 22 and under. There's more to life than the confines of your narrowly determined "facts".
This is dumb. I feel like I am surrounded by high schoolers who think they know everything but no one is telling them they barely even got out the gates yet.
For a 'spiritual person' you post a lot of abuse
I think I will just go back to lurkdom
Might be best
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For a 'spiritual person' you post a lot of abuseMight be best
Interesting that you see abuse, where I see merely the facts. Fact is many of you are narrow minded, and fact is many of you think you know more than you do. That's not abuse. Period. It is in my opinion most of the posters, whose responses amounted to, "duh, God sukz, I rule." that seemed far more abusive.Many of you actually think you somehow "won" an "argument." When all you are really doing is missing out on learning.
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WOW. I knew you were a religious nut, but this is truly amazing. The crap quoted above is barely a notch above the diatribe of the KKK or other hate groups. But you believe in the loving Christ right? Turn the other cheek and all that? Seems like your stuck in the old testament. Love using a fairy tale to justify idiocy. Your a real peach.
I don't see hate in LMD's post except possibly self-hate. You're way oversensitive. And people, there are many people of faith on this forum. We're not nuts (though Cope & LMD might think so in my case,lol) and we are not trying to force you into believing the way we do. Just because LMD posts what his thinking is in this doesn't mean you have to accept it. It's his beliefs & his thoughts. Personally as a Christian, I don't know what to think about this election. But I will say that I've felt increasing unease with the direction our country has been heading. And I'm not convinced that either of the major parties have been or are going to be good for our country.
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You didn't answer my question about whether you believe in spirit. I am going to operate on the assumption that you don't believe there is any validity to spirituality.I would like to point out I didn't suggest that God is not something science could never understand. You keep calling God imaginary. Who are you to tell millions of people that their experiences are imaginary? The answer is you are nobody to do that. You seem to have gone on a tangent about trying to understand this universe. I am telling you that there is a spiritual component to life. That's simply a fact to me, and I have countless experiences that agree with me. The reason a lot of very intelligent people have trouble with this is because they don't have a lot of experience with spirituality, and seeing as spirit is invisible and intangible it is hard for them to study it. If it isn't something you can hold in your hand or measure with a scientific measuring device, then a large segment of our culture has decided it isn't real.P.S. I'm not a Christian.
If you define spirituality as something outside the knowable world, then you are operating in the imaginary. There is reality, and nothing else. Within reality, there is that which we know, and that which we don't. All that we do not know is knowable but hasn't been learned yet.Some people choose to imagine a spiritual dimension that is outside the knowable world. It does not exist and cannot exist, but they postulate it anyway, emote over it, are motivated at times by it, and attempt to find fellowship with others who have imagined something similar.Any phenomenon that is unknown to all of us at a point in time is fertile ground for the imagination-fellowship behaviors which have come to be known as religion or spirituality. Of course, calling them imaginary, which they are, reduces their weight. So we use words like "faith" and "belief".But God is imaginary period. You can talk about "mystical experiences" or "spiritual awakenings" or whatever label you ascribe to what is ultimately nothing more than your emotional state. The funny thing is that atheists find spirituality in the world that exists rather than an imaginary construction. The utter beauty, order, and chaos that surround us and are observable by us are ENOUGH. Enough to be amazed by, enough to postulate about, enough to cry about, enough to close one's eyes and "feel". An atheist does not need to imagine a beginning, an end, a causality, a controller, an orderer, an exterior reason. It's not necessary or desirable, because what we can see and know is more than enough to have a lovely and meaningful life, without the evil and control that exist in the warped minds of those who carry their imagination too far and seek to impose their fantasy on others.God is Fear, reality is Truth. I'd rather get my spirituality from the latter. It also happens to work a lot better since it is based in the real universe rather than the uncontrollable imagination of someone who is not content with being unable to know everything right now. Belief in God is really being a spoiled intellectual brat if you think about it. I can't have it and know it all now, so I'll make it up on my own terms and according to my basest feeling (fear). And so will you. No I won't. Yes you will. No I won't. Yes you will. Insert Crusades, Holocaust, 911, Jerry Falwell, Islam, and a million more horrors beget by people who have different imaginations.
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How can someone seemingly so trollish write something that good?????Not saying that I agree with all of it because I don't, but that's one of the best articles of the subject i've ever read.

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Insert Crusades, Holocaust, 911, Jerry Falwell, Islam, and a million more horrors beget by people who have different imaginations.
Take this one off, Balloon Guy, I got you covered.......Atheists have killed more people than the religious ever have.
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Take this one off, Balloon Guy, I got you covered.......Atheists have killed more people than the religious ever have.
We may disagree a lot, but you get meThanks bro
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links?
You're going to have to get Balloon guy to provide those, it's his argument, but essentially he's going to argue that Soviet Russia and Red China (with a little Pol Pot kicker)> anything the religious have ever done. He's also going to claim Nazi germany as an athiest state, at yet at same time claim the US government is a Christian one. I'm not sure how he pulls off that maneuver, but I'm sure he'll be happy to explain it all.
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You're going to have to get Balloon guy to provide those, it's his argument, but essentially he's going to argue that Soviet Russia and Red China (with a little Pol Pot kicker)> anything the religious have ever done. He's also going to claim Nazi germany as an athiest state, at yet at same time claim the US government is a Christian one. I'm not sure how he pulls off that maneuver, but I'm sure he'll be happy to explain it all.
Ready and willing to goBut anyone that wants to argue this point could you please do your own homework and come up with the correct number of people killled due to Christianity in the last 2,000 years.I will give you a hint though, the number is less than 5 million.I am going to go very conservative and only claim that communism, the god-less religion, has only killed 400 million people in the first 50 years of it's existance, even though I could probably go 500 million if I want to include starving by accident and not just on purpose.
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Ready and willing to goBut anyone that wants to argue this point could you please do your own homework and come up with the correct number of people killled due to Christianity in the last 2,000 years.I will give you a hint though, the number is less than 5 million.I am going to go very conservative and only claim that communism, the god-less religion, has only killed 400 million people in the first 50 years of it's existance, even though I could probably go 500 million if I want to include starving by accident and not just on purpose.
What if you represent it by percentage of world population though? I mean there weren't as many people available when the Christians were a-killin'.
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What if you represent it by percentage of world population though? I mean there weren't as many people available when the Christians were a-killin'.
so killing 1 person isn't as bad as killing 50 people as long as there are lots of people around?Do we also get to count all the people that lived for 2,000 years which spans their entire 'killing spree' or just moments in time so the communist have a chance to look less bad?
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