Jargonator 0 Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 At the start of the 15k Guaranteed on Stars,Villain just moved to the table so no real reads,Checked his OPR and has negative ROI over 800ish tourneys with ABI $7PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $5.00+$0.50 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (BB) (t3410)UTG (t3519)UTG+1 (t753)MP1 (t2250)MP2 (t4390)MP3 (t2662)CO (t9206)Button (t3775)SB (t4085)Hero's M: 45.47Preflop: Hero is BB with A , K 7 folds, SB raises to t180, Hero raises to t450, SB raises to t720, Hero??I have no idea what to do in these spots, do we flatcall and take a flop and go from there? or do we 4-bet and get it in preflop?Seems like some of these players know they want to raise but couldn't be arsed putting in a normal raise so they just hit the button...edit: thinking about it i think I should have made my re-raise bigger around 540ish, as i think 2.5x his raise is abit small. Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 I think any 4 bet is a shove really so I just ship it in, esp vs a monkey. Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 This is tough, because you are so deep. We don't usually need to get all our money in preflop w/ AKdd w/ an m of 45. (unless we somehow have a read the guy is a monkey.) The problem is, if Villain has a big pair, and your ace falls, it's unlikely that they will put much more money into the pot. This would make my decision pre-flop to shove.I sometimes flat pre in this spot, hoping to trap Ax and Kx hands. I usually try to keep pots small in these spots, hoping for villain to value-town himself. Link to post Share on other sites
DCJ001 0 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 At the start of the 15k Guaranteed on Stars,Hero (BB) (t3410)UTG (t3519)UTG+1 (t753)MP1 (t2250)MP2 (t4390)MP3 (t2662)CO (t9206)Button (t3775)SB (t4085)Hero's M: 45.47Preflop: Hero is BB with A , K 7 folds, SB raises to t180 (2-bet), Hero raises to t450 (3-bet), SB raises to t720 (4-bet), Hero??I have no idea what to do in these spots, do we flatcall and take a flop and go from there? or do we 4-bet and get it in preflop?Seems like some of these players know they want to raise but couldn't be arsed putting in a normal raise so they just hit the button...edit: thinking about it i think I should have made my re-raise bigger around 540ish, as i think 2.5x his raise is abit small. I think any 4 bet is a shove really so I just ship it in, esp vs a monkey.FYI: SB raises to t720 was a 4-bet. Link to post Share on other sites
Jargonator 0 Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 FYI: SB raises to t720 was a 4-bet.are you really that pedantic? Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 FYI: SB raises to t720 was a 4-bet.zzzzzzz I don't hate flat calling preflop the first bet here btw, 50% do what you did, 50% flat and use my position. I think as played I really don't give him too much credit and this early I'm glad to get it in.He could have something like AJo and snap call your shove.Flatting this bet will make a 1.5k pot (1440 for DJC) with 2500 behind effective which isn't bad considering you will get a ton of value if you hit the flop. I'm just not sure what to do when the flop comes Q98 or 753 and he inevitably bets. Link to post Share on other sites
MovingIn 0 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Checked his OPR and has negative ROI over 800ish tourneys with ABI $7This doesn't matter unless the negative ROI is substantially large. Players turn negative ROIs with a variety of leaks. You can't just look at a number and automatically assume you can give that player the pile in more spots thinking he's playing lesser hands than you'd play in his shoes. He could well be 3betting* legitimately good hands here, AA-QQ and the like, and just be leaking in some other aspect of his game. I would need reads to decide if he's engaging a blind vs blind pissing contest with something less... not an ROI.* - It's only a 4 bet if you count his half-size SB as a bet, which I don't.If you want to stack off here, do it, but you're on the lesser end of a race with most pairs, and basically dead meat against AA and KK. Better hope he's dumb enough to stack off with AQ or AJ, but I doubt it. Blind vs blind, I'd just flat the initial raise and reassess from the flop.450 is okay if you're going to reraise here. If anything, I'd maybe make it a shade smaller, like ~425. Flatting the 3bet means you need to flop an A or K and hope he isn't playing AA-KK here. Otherwise, he probably has a pair, probably shoves or calls a shove and he's probably way ahead with two cards to come. With that in mind, I'd consider getting it all in pre if we're going to go that far with AKo. Link to post Share on other sites
Jam-Fly 8 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I like flatting here and seeing a flop. I guess pushing isn't terrible either, you could have run into some random maniac not caring how he does in the tourney. Tbh though, it looks like villain has a v strong hand, AA or KK or QQ, but I can't just open fold AK here getting such good value.Call and see a flop, evaluate from there. Link to post Share on other sites
DCJ001 0 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 are you really that pedantic?Since you asked,I just think it's "interesting" when people who play poker don't know the difference between a 3-bet and a 4-bet. Or, even better, when some people think that the second person to act after the flop can reraise, which isn't possible. Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 4 bet/5 bet does it really matter? I do know the difference.For those of you advocating flatting the 720 raise, what do you do when the flop comes T62 and he bets 800? Link to post Share on other sites
outsider13 0 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 4 bet/5 bet does it really matter? I do know the difference.For those of you advocating flatting the 720 raise, what do you do when the flop comes T62 and he bets 800?Good question. It's shove and pray or fold. This is why I prefer the shove preflop. Link to post Share on other sites
sennin 0 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I just shovel, im rarely gonna fold AK bvb Link to post Share on other sites
TheL0st1ne 0 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Since were up against a bad player, i ship it in and lol when he snapcalls with Ax or like KQ.And im he has like AA/KK I claimed it obv rigged and move on. Link to post Share on other sites
SlackerInc 0 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 My first RR would probably be a shove, but as played go for the 4-bet shove for sure. Link to post Share on other sites
SlackerInc 0 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Since were up against a bad player, i ship it in and lol when he snapcalls with Ax or like KQ.And im he has like AA/KK I claimed it obv rigged and move on.QFT Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now