The New York Rangers

[serge 904]

I agree. If Olli is really as bad as Flames fans say, then you only have him for the next few months and can ditch his $5 million and change by not resigning him. You're stuck with Kotalik for two more years. Or is Kotalik the major piece they needed that will now ensure them a playoff spot...

Exactly.I also understand what Arp is saying as Jokinen has played pretty bad..But hang on to him for the playoff run and then let him go..Its not like you are acquiring a huge assest in Kotalik and Higgins..StajanHagmanKotalikHigginsMayersWhiteMediocre players with contract issues for Phaneuf and Jokinen..If you are looking to dump salary and make room for Kovalchuk , I am sure you could of gotten a lot more for these guys..

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

But hang on to him for the playoff run and then let him go..Its not like you are acquiring a huge assest in Kotalik and Higgins..

Maybe it was so bad they thought it was addition by subtraction, just getting rid of him was best? I dont know, Im not in the room. Dont get me wrong, on talent, its a brutal trade for Calgary. But something was really off with Jokinen/Calgary, so maybe this was a move that had to be made.That said, I really do dislike their return from NYR. On another note, I used to feel like I could get a pretty good read on why GM's made the deals they made, could always see their sides, even if I didnt agree with it. Had the sense I could kinda guesstimate pretty well on what other offers they might have had.....In this new cap world, Im at a loss a lot of the time as to what the true best offer out there might have been. And I think its hard for ALL of us to truly know what the best offer could be for a Phaneuf or Jokinen.

[serge 904]

Maybe it was so bad they thought it was addition by subtraction, just getting rid of him was best? I dont know, Im not in the room. Dont get me wrong, on talent, its a brutal trade for Calgary. But something was really off with Jokinen/Calgary, so maybe this was a move that had to be made.That said, I really do dislike their return from NYR. On another note, I used to feel like I could get a pretty good read on why GM's made the deals they made, could always see their sides, even if I didnt agree with it. Had the sense I could kinda guesstimate pretty well on what other offers they might have had.....In this new cap world, Im at a loss a lot of the time as to what the true best offer out there might have been. And I think its hard for ALL of us to truly know what the best offer could be for a Phaneuf or Jokinen.

I totally agree..One of the downfalls of the cap era(there are many) is that we dont get trades like we saw yesterday..7 player trades are very very rare...Cant recall one actually in the last few years...I am not even sure if the Phaneuf trades is a "hockey trade". If its a pure hockey trade the Flames make a great trade...But so many things are involved with pending UFA, Phaneuf's salary etc..I would of loved to see Burke heading up the Leafs 10 years ago, with no cap, $90 million salary. He would be fun to watch. Hockey trades are so fun, proven by the frenzy in Toronto today after these two huge moves...The problem is the average fan doesnt understand most trades.People see trades and they dont get it.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

And the trade is official. Higgins and Kotalik for Jokinen and Prust.I really don't see how this is a good thing for Calgary. I mean, Higgins had some upside, but he'll be a free agent after this year, and as a rental for the next few months, it's not like Higgins is going to completely change things over there. Kotalik, on the other hand, is $3 million to sit on the bench, take some slapshots that don't hit the net, let the puck pass over the blue line on the power play, and be a minus 18 over a few months. For two more years.I don't really care what Jokinen does that much this year. I don't see him being worse over here. But it's not like we're going to win the cup, and having his $5+ million come off the books in the summer could give us some real room to work with.And maybe if Jokinen is decent, he can take us to the playoffs. But we'll see. I like this trade, and I won't miss the people we lost.

[serge 904]

And the trade is official. Higgins and Kotalik for Jokinen and Prust.I really don't see how this is a good thing for Calgary. I mean, Higgins had some upside, but he'll be a free agent after this year, and as a rental for the next few months, it's not like Higgins is going to completely change things over there. Kotalik, on the other hand, is $3 million to sit on the bench, take some slapshots that don't hit the net, let the puck pass over the blue line on the power play, and be a minus 18 over a few months. For two more years.I don't really care what Jokinen does that much this year. I don't see him being worse over here. But it's not like we're going to win the cup, and having his $5+ million come off the books in the summer could give us some real room to work with.And maybe if Jokinen is decent, he can take us to the playoffs. But we'll see. I like this trade, and I won't miss the people we lost.

Calgary in the last two days got rid of two of their big names and brought in 6 new bodies..No way they make the playoffs..Its hard enough to integrate one or two players in your lineup, but 6??

[Orcasgt22 0]

Calgary in the last two days got rid of two of their big names and brought in 6 new bodies..No way they make the playoffs..Its hard enough to integrate one or two players in your lineup, but 6??

The 4 ex-Leafs were present for the 3-0 loss to Colorado. So much for the added offencive help. Super small sample size however so we shall see in 10 games how it works out.If Calgary gets Kovalchuck in the off-season I'm gonna cry tampering because it really looks like they are setting up get him.

[digitalmonkey 929]

The 4 ex-Leafs were present for the 3-0 loss to Colorado. So much for the added offencive help. Super small sample size however so we shall see in 10 games how it works out.If Calgary gets Kovalchuck in the off-season I'm gonna cry tampering because it really looks like they are setting up get him.

Why would you cry tampering? Moves are made to set up other moves all the time...or at least they used to be.

[Zach6668 513]

Yeah, I really don't like this deal for Calgary. I liked the Leafs one, but now I dunno what's going on. I guess there are more moves on the way?

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Yeah, I really don't like this deal for Calgary. I liked the Leafs one, but now I dunno what's going on. I guess there are more moves on the way?

Is their plan to trade a lot of mediocre players for Kovalchuk? I don't think it works that way. You can't give 5 Higgins and 7 Kotaliks and 3 Hagmans for 1 Kovalchuk.

[serge 904]

Is their plan to trade a lot of mediocre players for Kovalchuk? I don't think it works that way. You can't give 5 Higgins and 7 Kotaliks and 3 Hagmans for 1 Kovalchuk.

We as Leaf fans believe thats exactly what we pulled off..Mediocre underachieving pending free agents for Phaneuf..FWIW of the 6 players the Flames acquired only Hagman and Kotalik are signed next year. For $6 million you can do a LOT better than Hagman and Kotalik.If Atlanta trades Kovalchuk at the deadline, why would they ask for players like Kotalik,Higgins,Hagman and Stajan..They would look for cheaper signed good players and draft picks.I havent heard one decent argument to defend Sutter, if you look at both of these deals together.Just brutal IMO.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I think Kotalik and Higgins are 2 very interesting players who have each shown something. I personally dislike both, but I think both have their backers within NHL circles, based on what I have read and seen. I get the feeling some think Kotalik could be a really good player, or else why else do teams continue to try and acquire him and pay him big bucks. And Higgins is the kind of player teams love to have on their 2nd line W, IF he plays to his potential. Again, Im not in favour of the Cgy side of the NYR trade, but I will say again, I think the Flames were dying to move Ollie Jokie.

[serge 904]

I think Kotalik and Higgins are 2 very interesting players who have each shown something. I personally dislike both, but I think both have their backers within NHL circles, based on what I have read and seen. I get the feeling some think Kotalik could be a really good player, or else why else do teams continue to try and acquire him and pay him big bucks. And Higgins is the kind of player teams love to have on their 2nd line W, IF he plays to his potential. Again, Im not in favour of the Cgy side of the NYR trade, but I will say again, I think the Flames were dying to move Ollie Jokie.

what are they gonna do with all these mediocre forwards they acquired??

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

what are they gonna do with all these mediocre forwards they acquired??

well, maybe they're trying to mimic the 09-10 Leafs and get themselves a high pick?I like how on YOUR team they were guys who could help for a big playoff run, but on the Flames, just a bunch of mediocre forwards. Weren't Stajan, Hagman and White going to help the Leafs make the playoffs, and then possibly lead them on a deep run?I think adding good depth to a team thats already got Iginla, Langkow, Bourque, Bouwmeester, Giordano, Regehr and Kiprusoff is not the worst way to go.

[serge 904]

well, maybe they're trying to mimic the 09-10 Leafs and get themselves a high pick?I like how on YOUR team they were guys who could help for a big playoff run, but on the Flames, just a bunch of mediocre forwards. Weren't Stajan, Hagman and White going to help the Leafs make the playoffs, and then possibly lead them on a deep run?I think adding good depth to a team thats already got Iginla, Langkow, Bourque, Bouwmeester, Giordano, Regehr and Kiprusoff is not the worst way to go.

i never said that ..Stajan is and has always been a stiff..dont bother searching other threads because i will deny it.

[digitalmonkey 929]

what are they gonna do with all these mediocre forwards they acquired??

Stajan will get a shot at 1st line centre with Iginla if they can agree on a contract. Hagman will play on the second line and PP.Mayers will play in the AHL an will fill in when injuries strike.White will play with Regher and see some PP time.Calgary only has one so-called big name with Iginla but they do have some forwards who can provide scoring...Not sure who the top 6 will be. It's not the best in the league but it's also not the worst. Keep in mind that Sutter freed up some salary too so they will be acquiring another forward I'm sure.IginlaStajanBourqueKotalikLangkowBoydHiggins

[serge 904]

Stajan will get a shot at 1st line centre with Iginla if they can agree on a contract. Hagman will play on the second line and PP.Mayers will play in the AHL an will fill in when injuries strike.White will play with Regher and see some PP time.Calgary only has one so-called big name with Iginla but they do have some forwards who can provide scoring...Not sure who the top 6 will be. It's not the best in the league but it's also not the worst. Keep in mind that Sutter freed up some salary too so they will be acquiring another forward I'm sure.IginlaStajanBourqueKotalikLangkowBoydHiggins

good luck with that Calgary fans...A team with Matt Stajan on any of its top two lines wont get anywhere..(unless miracolously he ends up back in Toronto)

[Zach6668 513]

I think Stajan is a fine top 6 center. Not on his own, but with a premier winger like Iginla, he'll be just fine.

[serge 904]

I think Stajan is a fine top 6 center. Not on his own, but with a premier winger like Iginla, he'll be just fine.

you obviously dont watch Leafs games..I have seen 95% of his games in his career..he is a major stiff...I can now officially say it, i couldnt before.

[digitalmonkey 929]

good luck with that Calgary fans...A team with Matt Stajan on any of its top two lines wont get anywhere..(unless miracolously he ends up back in Toronto)

Is Grabovski better?

[ajs510 122]

Is Grabovski better?

He's a top liner, unless he gets traded or signs elsewhere. Don't you pay any attention?

[serge 904]

Is Grabovski better?

he is much better..A talented , fast skater with hands..Stajan is the biggest stiff there is..

[digitalmonkey 929]

he is much better..A talented , fast skater with hands..Stajan is the biggest stiff there is..

I'm amazed that you constantly get away with breaking the forum rules.

[serge 904]

I'm amazed that you constantly get away with breaking the forum rules.

dude you are constantly trying to sucker me into a war..everyone can see it..i am not getting into it with you..What rule did I break btw??

[digitalmonkey 929]

dude you are constantly trying to sucker me into a war..everyone can see it..i am not getting into it with you..What rule did I break btw??

Do not troll or provoke others: In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.I do not constantly try to provoke you. I have done it but most of my posts are responses to your posts or actions. You constantly bump threads and nothing is said but the second I bump one I have someone proclaiming how annoying it is. You are constantly trying to provoke a response to your ludicrous claims. You even make fun of that fact by admitting that a player is great until he leaves the Leafs. I don't feel my posts are incorrect or inaccurate. Admittedly some of my posts may be insulting but I don't think it's anywhere near as insulting as many of your comments regarding French people.Your main objective on this forum is to provoke a reaction and when you get a reaction you complain and threaten to leave. You even whined about the thread I created that was composed entirely of things you said...and then someone locked it up...which was ridiculous by the way!I blocked you before and only removed the block when you asked me to and announced that a "new serge" was now here. Well it seems like I'm not permitted to respond to your posts anymore without getting told by a few that I am pissing them off...oh well.

[digitalmonkey 929]

And apologies to Ranger fans for hijacking this thread.