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50 cents to 13 dollars preflop and we're ahead with QQ and an A on the board? His range has GOT to be AA KK AK AQ KK QQ JJ balanced 10% of the time by something idiotic. IOW, I don't think we beat much of his range. I like a bet against him in case he has an underpair to the A, but i think the river is too late. It's amazing how many of these big PF pots you see a fold to with a bet and any A on the board. I think the key is making it look like a value bet.

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First I will just LOL at the post saying that the bet size is fine or standard. seriously, literally LOL
Yeah, I'm never making it more than 15. How much do you make it?I was talking to Rdog about this and heres what he said:Whatgreatis: tell me if this 4bet size is good. im thinking anywhere from 13-15 is a solid 4bet sizeWhatgreatis: http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...129265&st=0RD: ummmm....i think its a little too smallWhatgreatis: how much are you 4betting and why?RD: i think i make it 15 almost always here, i think 13 you are giving him too good implied odds to just call the 4 betRD: and 15 even though at those levels you aren't 4 bet bluffing much, it still allows you to 4 bet foldWhatgreatis: rightWhatgreatis: 18 is too big, right?RD: yeah, 18 is too big because then it takes bluffing out of your 4 bet range. which isn't a big deal at 50 but definitely becomes a big deal at the next limit and for sure at 200RD: because then almost anything you 4 bet, you have to call a shove with RD: whereas 15, you technically could still fold
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BTW, I don't know that you are getting called by much on the river that you beat so I would probably use QQ to bluff catch.
Check/call river?That actually seems like a better line.
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Check/call river?That actually seems like a better line.
I disagree and I actually like the way you played this, with the exception of the preflop 4bet size (a bit bigger as others have mentioned).The reason I like your river bet is that trying to use QQ as a bluff-catcher by c-c'ing here seems like a money loser. After you check 3 streets, your perceived range looks an awful lot like just a failed 4bet bluff, and villain will be happy to show down any made hand that isn't TP or better. Likewise, if he has TP or better, I think the number of times he decides to value bet thinly here >>>>>> the number of times he has something he would bluff with. Take a look at this board - what the hell is in his range for calling you preflop that thinks it has to bluff to win here? Even an idiotic call of the 4bet with connectors is beating you most of the time. By betting, you at least control the price of SD and sometimes get value from JJ/TT.
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Seriously people get over the discussion on the 4-bet sizing. 13 isn't horrid. 15 is standard. 18 is probably worse than 13. 2.5 times the 3-bet size is the general guideline and we're only 100 bb effective here.I think I agree that villains river bluffing range > villains river calling range. Honestly I'm less worried about villain checking behind with TT here than I am about villain betting $22 with AJ.

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Seriously people get over the discussion on the 4-bet sizing. 13 isn't horrid. 15 is standard. 18 is probably worse than 13. 2.5 times the 3-bet size is the general guideline and we're only 100 bb effective here.I think I agree that villains river bluffing range > villains river calling range. Honestly I'm less worried about villain checking behind with TT here than I am about villain betting $22 with AJ.
When you say that villains river bluffing range > villains river calling range, are you talking about the strength of those ranges or the actual number of hands within those ranges?
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The $13 preflop would've been better if you were IP. Given that you're OOP, your 4 bets should be a slight increment larger to make up for your positional disadvantages during the times that he calls.As for the flop and turn, checking are ok I guess. Once you get to the river, it's gotta be a bet/fold. The odds that he's got a hand that's worse than yours and will call a bet are much larger than the times where we check and he bluffs at the pot with a hand which has no showdown value, which given the fact that he 3 bet and called a 4 bet preflop, are pretty few and far between.Bottom line: he's got something and he's probably not betting the river that often if we're winning and he's not really bluffing often enough for us to c/c. I think betting gives him a chance to say "wtf" with TT or whatever. I also doubt we ever get raised here, but if we did, it'd be an easy fold obv.

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When you say that villains river bluffing range > villains river calling range, are you talking about the strength of those ranges or the actual number of hands within those ranges?
I meant that he bluffs with more hands than he calls with. Acid disagrees. I'd generally agree with Acid that his range for 3-bet/call 4-bet is pretty narrow and pretty strong but the smallish 4-bet makes me think that his range is a bit wider. Really hands that you beat that he might call with are only 99-JJ. I think he might still have some random suited connectors in his range that he'll bluff with though honestly the way the hand played out I think you should both be checking a lot.
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