Official Palin/biden Debate Thread

[PokerFan 0]

I haven't read every response, so if any of this has been said, please forgive.Palin stating that she might not answer the questions that are being directed at her is just silly. Regardless of how she tried to phrase it, or her team tried to phrase it. Any way that you slice it, Biden came across as being much more intellegent. Almost in a comparison of college prof to a an 8th grade student. Her back handed compliments of Biden supporting McCain on various issues were annoying. I think she is pretty transparent. It's not that I feel that a person needs to have a wealth of experience either. I just want them to be intelligent. She strikes me as being contrived, vindictive, and plastic.

Biden is a huge part of the problem..The guy has geen in office for ever and look at the shape the Country is in. McCain/Palin has stated they will shake up this good ole boy network of "me first" Country last...which is what we need, if we do not get it from them, we'll throw them out in 4...also, I find DN attitude on "betting on the Black guy" disturbing, DN your better than that.

[Loismustdie 0]

Be careful! You're at risk of being called biased and a troll by Pot Odds RAC. While many INTELLIGENT people agree with you, you are coming across as too biased for his liking. LOL.Her whole agenda was transparent. She was trying to connect to the "soccor moms" and gain the support of middle class mother, inciting how she knows what it's like.....and I loved Biden's response back. You don't have to be a single mom to feel the pain. There are many positions that you can go into without having much experience and learn it on the job...being the VP is not one of them.

Out of curiosity, what does the VP do except wait for the number one to die? Her agenda was to connect, and not just with women. Middle class people with issues. What she did was give those issues a face, and a theme that wasn't as dry and played as "we will give you some money." Biden should trounce her on the issues- the fact is he didn't, and she didn't dodge as much as answered when she wanted to- remember her "Can I go back to Pakistan?" moment? Was that a person who was dodging? No. You know, one thing that bugs me in this election is the poor have just been ignored. No one talks about the poor anymore.

[KramitDaToad 0]

Oh, this is good.I'd like you to cite a source on this.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/stor...B-FF80C30C313F}Search for the second occurance of 'clear'

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Be careful! You're at risk of being called biased and a troll by Pot Odds RAC. While many INTELLIGENT people agree with you, you are coming across as too biased for his liking. LOL.Her whole agenda was transparent. She was trying to connect to the "soccor moms" and gain the support of middle class mother, inciting how she knows what it's like.....and I loved Biden's response back. You don't have to be a single mom to feel the pain. There are many positions that you can go into without having much experience and learn it on the job...being the VP is not one of them.

You're not smart enough to state what my Point of View is.He stated his position as an Opinion based on what he witnessed. But at the end of the day I think he'd understand that he was stating his own respectful opinion. I still disagree with him, but certainly understand his Point of View.Until you can understand the difference between a Fact and an Opinion, you're just another troll.

[Jeepster80125 0]

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/stor...B-FF80C30C313F}Search for the second occurance of 'clear'

I see it. I read some of the comments and some people were saying it was a mistake, not put there on purpose.Was there any news of this before?Thanks. I wish citing sources around here wasn't like pulling teeth.

[AngloBoy 0]

We can discuss this all we want guys, and we will, but get used to the idea that Obama is going to win. If you don't like that idea much, London is great except for the weather, Canada is... no, you'd never go there... you could try Italy? Great pasta and cheap wine :-)

No doubt that the Black Blair will win. Socialism is what America is craving, and you're all welcome to it. We've had enough of it here in England, that's why we exported the lovely Mr Blair to those who would have him and his ideas.I think in a democracy you can stay in the country even if you don't vote for the winner? but if not, you won't want to come to the other socialist countries that were listed.Good luck....you'll need it

[nutzbuster 7]

I haven't read every response, so if any of this has been said, please forgive.Palin stating that she might not answer the questions that are being directed at her is just silly. Regardless of how she tried to phrase it, or her team tried to phrase it. Any way that you slice it, Biden came across as being much more intellegent. Almost in a comparison of college prof to a an 8th grade student. Her back handed compliments of Biden supporting McCain on various issues were annoying. I think she is pretty transparent. It's not that I feel that a person needs to have a wealth of experience either. I just want them to be intelligent. She strikes me as being contrived, vindictive, and plastic.

Shouldn't you be off somewhere turning brains full of mush into world champions?(and who among us doesn't love a Barbie Doll?)

[PokerMiz 0]

You're not smart enough to state what my Point of View is.He stated his position as an Opinion based on what he witnessed. But at the end of the day I think he'd understand that he was stating his own respectful opinion. I still disagree with him, but certainly understand his Point of View.Until you can understand the difference between a Fact and an Opinion, you're just another troll.

So basically you're the man who decides what is Opinion and what's Biased? Thanks for the Memo. And here's one in return: All OPINIONS are someone's BIASES. That's a fact. POV = OpinionYou know nothing about me, my political status or standing....the fact that I work for the government, where my concerns lie. But whether I agree or disagree with someone else's opinion doesn't warrant me the right to be rude and condescending towards them if they disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone has the right to their own beliefs. You name calling and belittling won't deter me, nor anybody else from stating such.

[KramitDaToad 0]

I see it. I read some of the comments and some people were saying it was a mistake, not put there on purpose.Was there any news of this before?Thanks. I wish citing sources around here wasn't like pulling teeth.

No idea. I just thought it was a strange claim too, so I googled it and just chose one that was a straight copy of the transcript so the bias was removed.Yes, it says 'New Clear' but we all have our mental foibles, words we get stuck on. I think it's a clever (and probably standard) way to deal with public speaking landmines.That said who is the bigger idiot - Palin for getting tongue-tied on a particular word or the speech writing team for not removing the 'phonetics' from the speech?

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

So basically you're the man who decides what is Opinion and what's Biased? Thanks for the Memo. And here's one in return: All OPINIONS are someone's BIASES. That's a fact. POV = OpinionYou know nothing about me, my political status or standing....the fact that I work for the government, where my concerns lie. But whether I agree or disagree with someone else's opinion doesn't warrant me the right to be rude and condescending towards them if they disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone has the right to their own beliefs. You name calling and belittling won't deter me, nor anybody else from stating such.

This is EXACTLY what you did - in my opinion - when I had the audacity to disagree with your precious Opinions.And you're correct, I know nothing about you - nor do I care. What do you think you know about me?The point at which I became "rude" was when you decided to assume that you could put words in my mouth, and I'll be damned if I am going to sit here and let a troll like you do that without a response from me.

[Randy Reed 0]

Expectations for Biden going in were rather high and expectations for Palin were extremely low. I think both exceeded expectations in a big way and the debate camp really helped her avoid any major blunders which was a must for the GOP. I got a different read then some, feeling like she started better than Biden did, but that Biden did well when the discussion switched to foreign policy. Her comments on foreign policy seemed memorized and robotic (most of jher answers did) but Biden was more confident in that section and seemed to be more knowledgeable about the issue. I feel like Biden answered more of the questions. Both talked about the same amount of time, but Biden actually answered more of the questions directly. One glaring example was the question on what would be your biggest crutch as a VP. Biden answered that question talking about his stubbornness, but Palin didn't mention even one thing about herself that she felt was a crutch. Instead she talked about her resume. Good politics for Palin, but not answering the questions asked was a theme for the evening. Biden rambled a bit, but one thing I was happy to see was that he was very careful to show her a great deal of respect and was never condescending towards her. In fact, he actually used compliments to her in his attacks on McCain, saying something like, "I respect what you are doing in Alaska, that's what Obama and I want to do for the country. But McCain doesn't want what you want.." The gay marriage thing. Wow, that was odd for me. She appeared to be agreeing with Biden on the issue and that surprised me. In the end, I think Biden won, but not by as large a margin as predicted He answered more questions and would explain what the campaign would like to do with the economy, foreign affairs, etc. Palin didn't supply content in that sense. On several occasions she would answer a question but offer no plan. I predicted it would be pretty lame in comparison to the hype, and I was right on. Little happened, outside of Palin doing a good job of making Republicans feel more comfortable with her on the ticket, which I think is a big deal in terms of perception, but ultimately won't do much in terms of winning the election. Obama is winning at this point and I don't think this debate will have an effect on that either way. The McCain camp needs another game changer and this debate wasn't it. This debate really puts an end to the importance of the VP candidates for the most part, and now it's time for the two main men to go at it. Obama is in a commanding position, a big favorite to be the next president, and at this point all the campaign needs to do is tread water and make no major mistakes. The McCain camp needs to continue to gamble up and try to get back into it. While this debate HAS to be considered a moral victory for Palin, I'm definitely going to bet a lot of money on Obama being the next president. I'd lay 3/2 if anyone wants to gamble :-) Biden wins debate. Palin gets moral victory and exceeds expectations. That's my two cents.

I haven't had time to read any of the thread but was interested in Daniel's take.I thought I'd offer up a different perspective from my wife. She is 50, professional career woman and hasn't watched or listened to much of anything concerning the election but has only heard tidbits and seen headlines. She works alot and stays busy and doesn't really have the time or inclination to get involved in it. She actually moaned when I told her I had to see it, lol.She had heard about Palin's gaffes but came away thinking Palin outright won the debate. She tought Biden droned on and didn't think he told the truth much. She thought Palin did a good job of deflecting her inexperience. Basically I'd say she came away really liking Palin and her soccer mom touch and attitude. I haven't seen any polls and I know they are swinging towards Obama lately but regardless I'd say Palin scored a big victory with women last night.So anyone who thought Biden was a slam dunk last night had to come away realizing it didn't happen. I don't know if the VP debate will have much effect if any like DN says but it definately wasn't a loss for the Rep's last night.

[neretva 0]

Well, it wasn't me but I am laying 3/2 odds that the black guy wins... It's not over, but Obama is the favorite and I'd be happy to lay a price on him winning. No takers at all? Seriously? We can discuss this all we want guys, and we will, but get used to the idea that Obama is going to win. If you don't like that idea much, London is great except for the weather, Canada is... no, you'd never go there... you could try Italy? Great pasta and cheap wine :-)

Unfortunately this statement is true. Barring cataclysmic upheaval, Barack Obama will be the next President of the United States. The bright side for Republican partisans is that he will preside over an economic depression the likes of which we have not seen since 1930, and the Republicans will sweep back to victory quite easily in 2012. The functional beauty of the depression is that the vastly lowered revenues will inhibit Obama from actually carrying out much of his agenda, including socializing medicine and engaging in waves of new spending.So I think this election will be a good thing, even though I would prefer a McCain presidency. Every so often, we need a forest fire to clear out the old brush and make way for new life. Same with politicians. In this case, we will attend to the psychological necessity of periodically instituting "change", but there will be none due to insufficient funds. I can live with "change" that "changes nothing" for 4 years under a Socialist president.Being a devout atheist and somewhat of a social liberal, I have to admit that it will be a perverse pleasure to watch and listed to Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, and Mark Levin the day after Election day. They will be decrying the election of Obama as the end of America as we know it. Their incessant partisanship throughout this election has grated on my nerves, even though I agree with a lot of their observations. Sometimes it's just fun to watch smug people get what they have coming. The "anti-drivebys" have been most smug up until the recent poll numbers dealt them a river brick.Remember Jim Bakker? Now THAT was a fun day!

[gobears 0]

Biden is a huge part of the problem..The guy has geen in office for ever and look at the shape the Country is in. McCain/Palin has stated they will shake up this good ole boy network of "me first" Country last...which is what we need, if we do not get it from them, we'll throw them out in 4...also, I find DN attitude on "betting on the Black guy" disturbing, DN your better than that.

Well McCain has been in office forever also and look at the shape the Country is in...And I could replace M/P with O/B and say that they will give us change and we can throw them out in 4 also. Same same.As for the debate, Palin did what she needed to which was to hold her own. Biden did well also. The format which cut off dicussions/follow-ups helped both candidates avoid major gaffes. I doubt this VP debate will change the way the polls have been going - the economy will continue to dominate as the major issue.Stakes have risen for the last two debates. The town hall format should favor McCain's strengths so I think he will come out firing since he needs to turn the tide.

[copernicus 0]

Your link isn't working here. However you read this article for some facts vs claims in the debate: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081003/ap_on_...bate_fact_check

Joe Biden's 14 Lies 1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY. 2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it. 3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.” 4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage. 5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate. 6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times. 7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false 8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax. 9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan. 10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie. 11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right. 12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more. 13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.” 14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.

[Kenny Banya 0]

This is EXACTLY what you did - in my opinion - when I had the audacity to disagree with your precious Opinions.And you're correct, I know nothing about you - nor do I care. What do you think you know about me?The point at which I became "rude" was when you decided to assume that you could put words in my mouth, and I'll be damned if I am going to sit here and let a troll like you do that without a response from me.

Do you think everyone who disagrees with you is a troll?

[neretva 0]

I haven't had time to read any of the thread but was interested in Daniel's take.I thought I'd offer up a different perspective from my wife. She is 50, professional career woman and hasn't watched or listened to much of anything concerning the election but has only heard tidbits and seen headlines. She works alot and stays busy and doesn't really have the time or inclination to get involved in it. She actually moaned when I told her I had to see it, lol.She had heard about Palin's gaffes but came away thinking Palin outright won the debate. She tought Biden droned on and didn't think he told the truth much. She thought Palin did a good job of deflecting her inexperience. Basically I'd say she came away really liking Palin and her soccer mom touch and attitude. I haven't seen any polls and I know they are swinging towards Obama lately but regardless I'd say Palin scored a big victory with women last night.So anyone who thought Biden was a slam dunk last night had to come away realizing it didn't happen. I don't know if the VP debate will have much effect if any like DN says but it definately wasn't a loss for the Rep's last night.

I will repeat what I said when I was interviewed by Fox News following the debate. Palin did not implode. Therefore she won the debate. Her performances to date have been so mind-numbingly bad that I've blushed on several occasions while watching her. Last night she was quite slick. So was Biden for that matter. So while objectively the debate was a non-event, I think it was advantage Palin for failing to fail.

[85suited 0]

I will repeat what I said when I was interviewed by Fox News following the debate. .

When were you interviewed? Are you a pundit? or a person in a focus group or a man on the street the interviewed? just curious

[gobears 0]

Do you think everyone who disagrees with you is a troll?

Someone hasn't been reading DN's blogs.

[copernicus 0]

True it is my opinion. I honestly don't see how 45-50% of America can honestly say that they believe that Palin is even on the same playing field as Biden when it comes to intelligence. But then again, Bush was elected and then re-elected.

Steve, youre fairly new to the forum so probably havent read this before , but Biden is dumb as a rock. I worked across the table from him in his second Senate campaign finance committee. My boss and his first Presidential campaign finance manager, (google Biden Joel Boyarsky) required all of his senior staff to work with and contribute to the Biden campaign. Biden could not formulate a coherent position on his own. He is a total puppet that hides behind his speaking ability. When he strays from the game plan he screws it up. His out and out plagiarism stemmed from him wanting to "speak his own voice" not that of his handlers. Unfortunately they never thought to look across the Pond before he lifted his speech almost word for word.Don't be fooled by what you see on stage. He couldnt think his way out of a paper bag if he had a box cutter in his pocket.

[El Guapo 8]

One of the things that was grating on me last night was Biden continually saying "This is the most important election you will ever vote in" Really? That is so self serving and egotistical.

[keith crime 8]

Oh, this is good.I'd like you to cite a source on this.

http://www.observer.com/2008/media/sarah-p...ew-clear-option

[copernicus 0]

One of the things that was grating on me last night was Biden continually saying "This is the most important election you will ever vote in" Really? That is so self serving and egotistical.

I agree with him. Between National Security, policy in the ME especially Iran, and the economy, these are going to be the most difficult years for any President since ...... GWBs.

[strategy's_touch 0]

I love that both sides are trying to take credit for seeing the crisis ahead of time. gee, excellent work, you tried to introduce legislation after it was already too late.

[nutzbuster 7]

Joe Biden's 14 Lies 1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY. 2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it. 3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.” 4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage. 5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate. 6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times. 7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false 8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax. 9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan. 10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie. 11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right. 12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more. 13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.” 14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.

this

[neretva 0]

When were you interviewed? Are you a pundit? or a person in a focus group or a man on the street the interviewed? just curious

I am indeed a pundit, now that I have been interviewed by Fox News. Before that I was just someone in a diner in Clifton, NJ at 4:30 AM after a concert. But then they walked into the diner and changed my life...