Double Or Nothing Sit N Gos On Ps?!

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

a slight oversight.i should have said something more like he doesn't need to win to cash.

And see, that's where all the value in these tournaments comes from, I think.. how poorly people play when it's 6-7 handed. All of these tournaments seem to end when some dumb guy with AJ or 77 calls the all in push, and either is crippled, gets knocked out, or knocks out the all in. You see these people risking their tournaments on marginal situations, when everyone else in the tournament gets to sit and laugh at the no lose situation they are now in, and win the same amount of money as the person who inncurred the risk. Everyone gets paid the same, that's so important.. there's no bonus for having 4-6000 chips when the tournament ends..

[Poppy Hillis 0]

BigD and that other guy I acknowledged earlier are right on with these things.I think I've ran pretty bad and played pretty bad due to the low stakes, but still at 67%. I wish I was like 14, it would be fun to grind these out at this level and build a roll.

[Poppy Hillis 0]

What do you guys do in this spot?PokerStars Game #20966461303: Tournament #112430726, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2008/10/06 1:46:39 ETTable '112430726 1' 10-max Seat #9 is the buttonSeat 4: Il Cavitto (4335 in chips) Seat 5: w1ck3d714 (925 in chips) Seat 6: vazavazoozi (3355 in chips) Seat 8: dougwins1 (1875 in chips) Seat 9: ElsScraps (3335 in chips) Seat 10: Poppy Hillis (1175 in chips) Il Cavitto: posts the ante 20w1ck3d714: posts the ante 20vazavazoozi: posts the ante 20dougwins1: posts the ante 20ElsScraps: posts the ante 20Poppy Hillis: posts the ante 20Poppy Hillis: posts small blind 100Il Cavitto: posts big blind 200*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Poppy Hillis [8h 8d]w1ck3d714: folds vazavazoozi: folds dougwins1: folds ElsScraps: calls 200Poppy Hillis: raises 955 to 1155 and is all-inIl Cavitto: folds ElsScraps: calls 955*** FLOP *** [8s Tc 6d]*** TURN *** [8s Tc 6d] [5h]*** RIVER *** [8s Tc 6d 5h] [7d]*** SHOW DOWN ***Poppy Hillis: shows [8h 8d] (three of a kind, Eights)ElsScraps: shows [Td As] (a pair of Tens)Poppy Hillis collected 2630 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 2630 | Rake 0 Board [8s Tc 6d 5h 7d]Seat 4: Il Cavitto (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 5: w1ck3d714 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: vazavazoozi folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 8: dougwins1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 9: ElsScraps (button) showed [Td As] and lost with a pair of TensSeat 10: Poppy Hillis (small blind) showed [8h 8d] and won (2630) with three of a kind, Eights

[SCYUKON 0]

So far, 2 for 2 in the 11 turbos, each one taking 1/2 hour. I played 4 hands out of 30, built my stack up to about 2000 early playing hands in position, then coasted and let the gambling donks take each other out.In the first one, a guy called another bit-ches for not calling his resteal. Mr Toughguy folded the next hand when his raise was met by 2 pushes LOL, and then he ended up busting out in 7th soon after.And in the last one, the far and away chipleader with 6 left, with 3800 in chips decides to call a raise from a fellow with 2500 (3rd in chips at that point). Long story short, they got it all in and suddenly the chipleaders was in 5th place with 1300 chips. He got lucky and still made money, but what silliness.I was not playing in 2003, but if I was, and it was like this, it would have been a lot of fun.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

What do you guys do in this spot?PokerStars Game #20966461303: Tournament #112430726, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2008/10/06 1:46:39 ETTable '112430726 1' 10-max Seat #9 is the buttonSeat 4: Il Cavitto (4335 in chips) Seat 5: w1ck3d714 (925 in chips) Seat 6: vazavazoozi (3355 in chips) Seat 8: dougwins1 (1875 in chips) Seat 9: ElsScraps (3335 in chips) Seat 10: Poppy Hillis (1175 in chips) Il Cavitto: posts the ante 20w1ck3d714: posts the ante 20vazavazoozi: posts the ante 20dougwins1: posts the ante 20ElsScraps: posts the ante 20Poppy Hillis: posts the ante 20Poppy Hillis: posts small blind 100Il Cavitto: posts big blind 200*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Poppy Hillis [8h 8d]w1ck3d714: folds vazavazoozi: folds dougwins1: folds ElsScraps: calls 200Poppy Hillis: raises 955 to 1155 and is all-inIl Cavitto: folds ElsScraps: calls 955*** FLOP *** [8s Tc 6d]*** TURN *** [8s Tc 6d] [5h]*** RIVER *** [8s Tc 6d 5h] [7d]*** SHOW DOWN ***Poppy Hillis: shows [8h 8d] (three of a kind, Eights)ElsScraps: shows [Td As] (a pair of Tens)Poppy Hillis collected 2630 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 2630 | Rake 0 Board [8s Tc 6d 5h 7d]Seat 4: Il Cavitto (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 5: w1ck3d714 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: vazavazoozi folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 8: dougwins1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 9: ElsScraps (button) showed [Td As] and lost with a pair of TensSeat 10: Poppy Hillis (small blind) showed [8h 8d] and won (2630) with three of a kind, Eights

That's a close one.. I think if he pushes, you fold.. He made an error limp calling... There might have been a better place, you can push without confrontation, but hte fact is, you're low man and the blinds are big, so I think pushing there is probably right.

[jmbreslin 0]

I've reached a few of conclusions about these:1) You can't count on people to cooperate or otherwise play the way they should play in these - many opponents seem to approach them the same way they approach any SnG2) Due to the blind structure and antes, a super-tight approach doesn't really work because you'll too often find yourself desperately shortstacked3) The fact that the antes are brought in so much earlier than in regular SnGs means you have to shift into aggressive stealing mode earlier than one might be used to doing. At 25/50 with 25 antes and 8 people still in the game, the preflop pot is already 375 chips. If you can steal once/orbit from that point on you should be able to stay in it long enough to cash.

[jmbreslin 0]

im like 8 wins 8 loses on these. most of the ones i lost i busted out of when i was either ahead or it was a reasonable spot. im not sure if im playing well or not, which means im probably not. either way im frustrated so thats enough for today ill try again tomorrow.

LOL, makes me feel better that I'm not the only one who's not crushing these. I think I'm slightly ahead but not cashing as often as I thought I would. I think I've been playing way too tight and hoping to back into the cash.I think I'm 2/2 or 3/3 in the PLO ones, however...

[Mercury69 3]

I played a couple of $5ers over the weekend and got bounced both times when AK couldn't hit...Even when 50% of the field gets paid, i get screwbied...

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

2) Due to the blind structure and antes, a super-tight approach doesn't really work because you'll too often find yourself desperately shortstacked3) The fact that the antes are brought in so much earlier than in regular SnGs means you have to shift into aggressive stealing mode earlier than one might be used to doing. At 25/50 with 25 antes and 8 people still in the game, the preflop pot is already 375 chips. If you can steal once/orbit from that point on you should be able to stay in it long enough to cash.

There are not 25 antes when it is 25/50, there are 5 dollar antes. It isn't worth stealing until the 50/100 levelDon't mess around with small steal raises.. don't ever let your self open to the resteal... often you'll have to call, but it's disaserous to get it all in preflop without folding equity. Always just push, put maxium pressure on people to not call. You don't want them to call. Even with really good hands, you'd rather not be put at risk. Super tight works fine, but what you have to understand, is that you have to be super tight,AND aggressive. You have to be a SUPER tight caller, particularly with a middle stack. You have to be a super aggressive stealer, when you have a vulerable stack. When you have one of the best 1-3 stacks, you should fold almost everything, and only call very small stack's all ins. You can almost never call all in preflop unless the call represents a small percentage of your stack, or you are extremely short stacked. This requires you to fold many big hands. On the flip side, when it's folded to you, and you have the short stack (or close to the short stack) you should push with almost everything. Don't be a pussy. They will almost never call you. But you have to start stealing when youre stack is in the 1100-1300 range. You want your stack to be significant, to make people be extremely reluctant to call you. If you have a 2500 stack, don't don't call off 1300 pushes, no matter what you have. WHat you have doesn't matter, your relative chip positions matter. These sort of tournaments are tactically different than sitngos, and share much more in common with bubble play in satellites. I have never seen a tournament where there is a wider gap between what you can push with and what you can call with.

[jmbreslin 0]

There are not 25 antes when it is 25/50, there are 5 dollar antes. It isn't worth stealing until the 50/100 level

Oops, I was just a tad off. What are the antes at 50/100?Otherwise, good advice in your post. The gap concept is huge in these but most players (at least at the low stakes) don't know it.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Oops, I was just a tad off. What are the antes at 50/100?Otherwise, good advice in your post. The gap concept is huge in these but most players (at least at the low stakes) don't know it.

10... the pot has 250 if it's a full tableBecause they don't know it, that's why it's even more important just to push, rather than make a small ish raise.. they might be inclined to call with A10 or KJ or what ever but they won't call if you're putting their tourney at risk, even donks know that.. they might think it's okay to call with AQ, 'cause, I mean hey, it's AQ.. but that shouldn't stop you from pushiing with anything, 'cause most of the time, they just can't call you. You wnat to see people make min raises, and call them, and see donks get busted... you want to see fools call with medium stacks against medium stacks with AQ.. you want to suck out on any idiot that risks their tournament calling with AQ. But what you don't want to do, is let your stack dwindle until your stack doesn't scare.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

So far my strat has been pretty good at these.. I started tracking them today, and I'm 22 wins and 11 losses so far. I'm not sure if that's sustainable, but 2/1 win loss ratio is like printing money.

[Socrates 0]

Extremely boring, but way too easy to cash in not to play. Most hands Ive played in any one has been 5. Cashed in all 12 I've played.

[antistuff 0]

There are not 25 antes when it is 25/50, there are 5 dollar antes. It isn't worth stealing until the 50/100 levelDon't mess around with small steal raises.. don't ever let your self open to the resteal... often you'll have to call, but it's disaserous to get it all in preflop without folding equity. Always just push, put maxium pressure on people to not call. You don't want them to call. Even with really good hands, you'd rather not be put at risk. Super tight works fine, but what you have to understand, is that you have to be super tight,AND aggressive. You have to be a SUPER tight caller, particularly with a middle stack. You have to be a super aggressive stealer, when you have a vulerable stack. When you have one of the best 1-3 stacks, you should fold almost everything, and only call very small stack's all ins. You can almost never call all in preflop unless the call represents a small percentage of your stack, or you are extremely short stacked. This requires you to fold many big hands. On the flip side, when it's folded to you, and you have the short stack (or close to the short stack) you should push with almost everything. Don't be a pussy. They will almost never call you. But you have to start stealing when youre stack is in the 1100-1300 range. You want your stack to be significant, to make people be extremely reluctant to call you. If you have a 2500 stack, don't don't call off 1300 pushes, no matter what you have. WHat you have doesn't matter, your relative chip positions matter. These sort of tournaments are tactically different than sitngos, and share much more in common with bubble play in satellites. I have never seen a tournament where there is a wider gap between what you can push with and what you can call with.

so you are never doing anything put shoving preflop?what about if you get aces or kings in the first level in ep?

[antistuff 0]

LOL, makes me feel better that I'm not the only one who's not crushing these. I think I'm slightly ahead but not cashing as often as I thought I would. I think I've been playing way too tight and hoping to back into the cash.I think I'm 2/2 or 3/3 in the PLO ones, however...

hmmplo might be a much better game for this because of how close hands run.nlo would be a dream.

[jmbreslin 0]

hmmplo might be a much better game for this because of how close hands run.nlo would be a dream.

I've only played a few low stakes ones so far but think about it this way: combine the common donkey mistakes in PLO with the donkey inability to adjust to this kind of structure and we should end up with a much bigger edge than in the NLHE ones. Most players have a very hard time playing tight in PLO and not getting sucked into big pots postflop.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

so you are never doing anything put shoving preflop?what about if you get aces or kings in the first level in ep?

Not necessarily. Once the blinds get to be 50/100.. the exceptions are when you're 6 handed is a small stack, say, 500, and you bet 500 to encourage other people to call along with you, and take out the small stack. In the early levels, I try to stay out of them as much as possibly, playing only AK and pocket pairs, and making small raises. You want to keep the pot as small as possible, if you can help it, and not risk more than 1/3 of your stack total, without having an extremely strong hand. In early position with AA or KK, I might limp re raise. BUt really, I don't want the pot size getting out of control, because you really don't need to risk your stack early, for any reason.

[OVERKILL 0]

1-0 in nlh1-0 in plo(both 2.20's)Found it easy to beat both games equally but its only 2 so far.The sitting out player is your friend along with the min raise.Will try a few more.Fun stuff while doing my fantasy football stuff at the same time.edit 1-0 in nlh 5.20

[profxavier9 0]

im not sure if anyone mentioned but it looks like they lowered the rake. Now this might actually be worth the time. Instead of 109 for the turbo its 104 and non turbo is 108

[Lrgetrout 1]

im not sure if anyone mentioned but it looks like they lowered the rake. Now this might actually be worth the time. Instead of 109 for the turbo its 104 and non turbo is 108

Cheers to Stars for doing this.Looks like they reduced the rake by 20% for non-turbos, and 60% for turbos (at the $5 and above level). The $1's are .15 non-turbo and .10 turbo rake.But it looks like the $2 level is gone (at least for holdem). (Edit: looks like the $2 level is gone for Omaha too.)

[Neutron1980 0]

someone cry to support about wanting a refund for the higher rakes they payed and see what happens...

[Stiles2004 0]

Classic way to not play this game/this format/structurePokerStars Game #20984912044: Tournament #112580923, $10.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/10/06 19:19:54 ETTable '112580923 1' 10-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: Hari-Radovan (1500 in chips) Seat 2: Jimacpa (1490 in chips) Seat 3: Venusssss (1470 in chips) Seat 4: Playboytommy (1470 in chips) Seat 5: sonranz (1460 in chips) Seat 6: Stiles2004 (1720 in chips) Seat 7: BCHRISS (1810 in chips) Seat 8: Starrbuck (1500 in chips) Seat 9: MtbikeGrl (1530 in chips) Seat 10: woody cas (1050 in chips) Stiles2004: posts small blind 10BCHRISS: posts big blind 20*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Stiles2004 [As 6s]Starrbuck: folds MtbikeGrl: calls 20woody cas: folds Hari-Radovan: folds Jimacpa: raises 80 to 100Venusssss: folds Playboytommy: folds sonranz: raises 200 to 300Stiles2004: folds BCHRISS: folds MtbikeGrl: folds Jimacpa: calls 200*** FLOP *** [7c Th 5c]Jimacpa: bets 100sonranz: raises 300 to 400Jimacpa: calls 300*** TURN *** [7c Th 5c] [8h]Jimacpa: bets 300sonranz: raises 460 to 760 and is all-inJimacpa: calls 460*** RIVER *** [7c Th 5c 8h] [Jd]*** SHOW DOWN ***Jimacpa: shows [9c 9h] (a straight, Seven to Jack)sonranz: shows [Kc Kh] (a pair of Kings)Jimacpa collected 2970 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 2970 | Rake 0 Board [7c Th 5c 8h Jd]Seat 1: Hari-Radovan folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: Jimacpa showed [9c 9h] and won (2970) with a straight, Seven to JackSeat 3: Venusssss folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: Playboytommy folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: sonranz (button) showed [Kc Kh] and lost with a pair of KingsSeat 6: Stiles2004 (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 7: BCHRISS (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 8: Starrbuck folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 9: MtbikeGrl folded before FlopSeat 10: woody cas folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[antistuff 0]

that reduction in rake is huge this just got even better.

[jmbreslin 0]

Cheers to Stars for doing this.Looks like they reduced the rake by 20% for non-turbos, and 60% for turbos (at the $5 and above level). The $1's are .15 non-turbo and .10 turbo rake.But it looks like the $2 level is gone (at least for holdem). (Edit: looks like the $2 level is gone for Omaha too.)

Yup, next level up now is $5.40.

[Brann6 0]

Yup, next level up now is $5.40.

The 5.40s play virtually the same as the $2 ones.