How Long Till Biden Is Gone?

[Balloon guy 158]

Yes, I know, we've already established your understanding of nature stopped progressing around the time of Ptolemy XV, so this kind of thing doesn't matter to you. But to me it's kind of important.

Might as well like him for his favorite ice cream flavoursame value

[Balloon guy 158]

I know, we should have. I think the only interaction we had was when I rejected your cigar. We will next time.

Oh yea.Never mind about the hanging out morewait, did this just turn ghey?

[vbnautilus 48]

Oh yea.Never mind about the hanging out morewait, did this just turn ghey?

I guess it was more intimate than I thought... But to get serious about this pentecostal thing and why it matters:I'm going to use SH's words again since he is better at these kinds of words than I am and has already done the work. Given her long affiliation with the Assemblies of God church, Palin very likely believes that Biblical prophecy is an infallible guide to future events and that we are living in the "end times." Which is to say she very likely thinks that human history will soon unravel in a foreordained cataclysm of war and bad weather. Undoubtedly Palin believes that this will be a good thing—as all true Christians will be lifted bodily into the sky to make merry with Jesus, while all nonbelievers, Jews, Methodists and other rabble will be punished for eternity in a lake of fire. Like many Pentecostals, Palin may even imagine that she and her fellow parishioners enjoy the power of prophecy themselves. Otherwise, what could she have meant when declaring to her congregation that "God's going to tell you what is going on, and what is going to go on, and you guys are going to have that within you"?You can learn something about a person by the company she keeps. In the churches where Palin has worshiped for decades, parishioners enjoy "baptism in the Holy Spirit," "miraculous healings" and "the gift of tongues." Invariably, they offer astonishingly irrational accounts of this behavior and of its significance for the entire cosmos. Palin's spiritual colleagues describe themselves as part of "the final generation," engaged in "spiritual warfare" to purge the earth of "demonic strongholds." Palin has spent her entire adult life immersed in this apocalyptic hysteria. Ask yourself: Is it a good idea to place the most powerful military on earth at her disposal? Do we actually want our leaders thinking about the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy when it comes time to say to the Iranians, or to the North Koreans, or to the Pakistanis, or to the Russians or to the Chinese: "All options remain on the table"?So let me ask this. Let's put aside for now the question of whether or not SP really does believe in these kinds of things. Let's say hypothetically she does. Do you still think its irrelevant or that we shouldn't be concerned about it?

[Balloon guy 158]

I guess it was more intimate than I thought... But to get serious about this pentecostal thing and why it matters:I'm going to use SH's words again since he is better at these kinds of words than I am and has already done the work. Given her long affiliation with the Assemblies of God church, Palin very likely believes that Biblical prophecy is an infallible guide to future events and that we are living in the "end times." Which is to say she very likely thinks that human history will soon unravel in a foreordained cataclysm of war and bad weather. Undoubtedly Palin believes that this will be a good thing—as all true Christians will be lifted bodily into the sky to make merry with Jesus, while all nonbelievers, Jews, Methodists and other rabble will be punished for eternity in a lake of fire. Like many Pentecostals, Palin may even imagine that she and her fellow parishioners enjoy the power of prophecy themselves. Otherwise, what could she have meant when declaring to her congregation that "God's going to tell you what is going on, and what is going to go on, and you guys are going to have that within you"?You can learn something about a person by the company she keeps. In the churches where Palin has worshiped for decades, parishioners enjoy "baptism in the Holy Spirit," "miraculous healings" and "the gift of tongues." Invariably, they offer astonishingly irrational accounts of this behavior and of its significance for the entire cosmos. Palin's spiritual colleagues describe themselves as part of "the final generation," engaged in "spiritual warfare" to purge the earth of "demonic strongholds." Palin has spent her entire adult life immersed in this apocalyptic hysteria. Ask yourself: Is it a good idea to place the most powerful military on earth at her disposal? Do we actually want our leaders thinking about the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy when it comes time to say to the Iranians, or to the North Koreans, or to the Pakistanis, or to the Russians or to the Chinese: "All options remain on the table"?So let me ask this. Let's put aside for now the question of whether or not SP really does believe in these kinds of things. Let's say hypothetically she does. Do you still think its irrelevant or that we shouldn't be concerned about it?

You really need to find a better class of people to hang out with.You are so afraid of Palin's religious beliefs, when they are part and partial 100% in line with what Obama's church teaches?Except that Obama's church adds the government is out to get the black man.Everything you are afraid of is normal Bible teachings and therfore by definition what every president has believed since Washington.Just because little Sammie Harris wants to denegrate the beliefs of a religion is hardly a reason to pretend he's not a complete buffoon.And to demonstrate to stupidit of SH's lack of understanding of basic Biblical doctrine, Prophecy in the NT is only for the believers, not as a sign for the unbelievers, and as such doesn't come into play with regard to how we would govern. But not understanding this simple fact clearly shows that SH is a cut and paste hack out to make a fast buck on the anti-religious sheep that will buy up anything he writes. Normal chuch doctrine is to conduct your life as if Christ is returning tomorrow, and have no changes if you found out for sure He was coming back today.I bet he and Dickie dawkins just get together and laugh nonstop for hours while they cash their checks on how they get away with complete and total contextual dishonesty without even a single utterance of fact checking from the willing athiest out to save the world from the Christians.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

Enjoy your future Palin-led Senate:

The first paragraph and the second paragraph kinda contradict each other. Being a common person is not a bad thing, it just doesn't qualify you to be in charge of anything. We're looking for an uncommonly great person here.

This is why you keep losing elections. Common values as opposed to no values or hidden values is what we face in this election. I think Palin is uncommonly capable, uncommonly qualified, (though certainly not the MOST qualified), uncommonly couragous, ect. but she has common values of which she is not ashamed. She doesn't need to change her answer about abortion depending on to whom she is talking. She doesn't change her positons every time the political winds shift. Because we respect this about her, you think the american people are stupid, ignorant, ect. You see the american people exactly the way the MSM and democratic party see the american people. That is why they lost the last two presidential elelctions and why against all odds they may lose this one.

[navybuttons 15]

You really need to find a better class of people to hang out with.

i must have read the question differently than you. :)btw, lol at "theory of evolution" like the theory of plate tectonics or physics.obama is now taking a bigger lead every day on RCP, but i don't doubt that if he wasn't that they would have had biden drop and hill-dog step in. that's the kind of politics i hate and obamalammadingdong would probably lose my vote if that happened. not that i can't stand hill but that he would play those sort of games when the reason i'm voting for him is he is promising not to play them.real lol to "governor and conservative first." that's why she was picked.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

I guess it was more intimate than I thought... But to get serious about this pentecostal thing and why it matters:I'm going to use SH's words again since he is better at these kinds of words than I am and has already done the work. Given her long affiliation with the Assemblies of God church, Palin very likely believes that Biblical prophecy is an infallible guide to future events and that we are living in the "end times." Which is to say she very likely thinks that human history will soon unravel in a foreordained cataclysm of war and bad weather. Undoubtedly Palin believes that this will be a good thing—as all true Christians will be lifted bodily into the sky to make merry with Jesus, while all nonbelievers, Jews, Methodists and other rabble will be punished for eternity in a lake of fire. Like many Pentecostals, Palin may even imagine that she and her fellow parishioners enjoy the power of prophecy themselves. Otherwise, what could she have meant when declaring to her congregation that "God's going to tell you what is going on, and what is going to go on, and you guys are going to have that within you"?You can learn something about a person by the company she keeps. In the churches where Palin has worshiped for decades, parishioners enjoy "baptism in the Holy Spirit," "miraculous healings" and "the gift of tongues." Invariably, they offer astonishingly irrational accounts of this behavior and of its significance for the entire cosmos. Palin's spiritual colleagues describe themselves as part of "the final generation," engaged in "spiritual warfare" to purge the earth of "demonic strongholds." Palin has spent her entire adult life immersed in this apocalyptic hysteria. Ask yourself: Is it a good idea to place the most powerful military on earth at her disposal? Do we actually want our leaders thinking about the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy when it comes time to say to the Iranians, or to the North Koreans, or to the Pakistanis, or to the Russians or to the Chinese: "All options remain on the table"?So let me ask this. Let's put aside for now the question of whether or not SP really does believe in these kinds of things. Let's say hypothetically she does. Do you still think its irrelevant or that we shouldn't be concerned about it?

Given his long affiliation with Reverend Wrights church, Obama very likely believes that Americans and Jews are the root of everything evil in this world. He has exposed his children to this kind of teaching for their entire lives. You can learn something about the company HE keeps. Rezko, Ayers, Wright, the whole politically corrupt machine of Chicago. Ignore Obama's actions, exaggerate and generalize Palin's I'm sorry but you are the poor guy that is being duped. Don't worry about us, the great unwashed, we'll be just fine.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Given his long affilitation with Reverend Wrights church, Obama very likely believes that Americans and Jews are the root of everything evil in this world.

No, he doesn't.

[navybuttons 15]

This is why you keep losing elections. Common values as opposed to no values or hidden values is what we face in this election.

i agree that the reason why dems. have lost in the past is in part due to hidden or no values. in this election i think that obama wins in the "values" debate.

I think Palin is uncommonly capable

based on what? i'm not saying that obama is capable, i'm just asking what about palin makes you think she is capable.

uncommonly qualified

same question.

but she has common values of which she is not ashamed.

agree that she is not ashamed of her values. i don't agree with her values, but cest la vie. to say her values are "common" may stretch the truth a bit. to say that her values are aligned with yours is probably more accurate.

She doesn't need to change her answer about abortion depending on to whom she is talking. She doesn't change her positons every time the political winds shift.

agree that she doesn't change her abortion answer. though i disagree with her view, i respect this about her. do you think deep down that she thinks we are doing god's work in iraq?

you think the american people are stupid, ignorant, ect.

our education is slipping, our production is down, our financial irresponsibility is up, it's not that we see americans and think they're stupid, it's that we think "how can we make them smarter?"

You see the american people exactly the way the MSM and democratic party see the american people.

i am not a democrat and vb stated that he was not. perhaps most people with liberal leanings perceive things similarly???? the same way most christians or conservatives do?

[Zealous Donkey 0]

No, he doesn't.

Don't believe he does either though I do think he is a coward and irresponsible for exposing his kids to that type of hatred. My point is that he is applying a standard to one vp candadate and failing to apply that standard to the opposing presidential candadate. It is obvious, does that not bother you?

[vbnautilus 48]

You really need to find a better class of people to hang out with.You are so afraid of Palin's religious beliefs, when they are part and partial 100% in line with what Obama's church teaches?

I've been irked by this fear line enough times that it's time to directly address it. In any of these discussions, when someone disagrees with something, you can claim they are "afraid" of it. It's a way to characterize the opposition to something as weakness on the part of your opponent. But it's also a way to avoid taking your opponent's point of view seriously. I know this can be a very effective rhetorical tactic (e.g. it's now widely believed that one cannot have reservations about homosexuality without being "homophobic" ). But if I were simply putting forth "fear" I wouldn't have nearly as much to say about these issues as I do, so let's leave the fear move off the table.

Except that Obama's church adds the government is out to get the black man.

And I think that's a fair criticism.

Everything you are afraid of is normal Bible teachings and therfore by definition what every president has believed since Washington.

Unfortunately true. But there are certainly degrees to which people believe take this stuff literally vs. metaphorically.

Just because little Sammie Harris wants to denegrate the beliefs of a religion is hardly a reason to pretend he's not a complete buffoon.

And just because he criticizes religion does not make him a buffoon.

And to demonstrate to stupidit of SH's lack of understanding of basic Biblical doctrine, Prophecy in the NT is only for the believers, not as a sign for the unbelievers, and as such doesn't come into play with regard to how we would govern. But not understanding this simple fact clearly shows that SH is a cut and paste hack out to make a fast buck on the anti-religious sheep that will buy up anything he writes. Normal chuch doctrine is to conduct your life as if Christ is returning tomorrow, and have no changes if you found out for sure He was coming back today.

I don't understand your believers/non-believers line, please elaborate. Isn't Palin a believer?

I bet he and Dickie dawkins just get together and laugh nonstop for hours while they cash their checks on how they get away with complete and total contextual dishonesty without even a single utterance of fact checking from the willing athiest out to save the world from the Christians.

Good thing fact-checking isn't necessary when it comes to believing in the bible, eh?

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

I've been irked by this fear line enough times that it's time to directly address it. In any of these discussions, when someone disagrees with something, you can claim they are "afraid" of it. It's a way to characterize the opposition to something as weakness on the part of your opponent. But it's also a way to avoid taking your opponent's point of view seriously. I know this can be a very effective rhetorical tactic (e.g. it's now widely believed that one cannot have reservations about homosexuality without being "homophobic" ). But if I were simply putting forth "fear" I wouldn't have nearly as much to say about these issues as I do, so let's leave the fear move off the table. And I think that's a fair criticism. Unfortunately true. But there are certainly degrees to which people believe take this stuff literally vs. metaphorically. And just because he criticizes religion does not make him a buffoon. I don't understand your believers/non-believers line, please elaborate. Isn't Palin a believer? Good thing fact-checking isn't necessary when it comes to believing in the bible, eh?

Why are you seemingly more apt to criticize or comment on Sarah Palin's religious views than those of other candidates including BHO?

[Loismustdie 0]

No, he doesn't.

I think what he is saying that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If it's o.k. to assume Palin believes X because she attends X or hangs with X than it Obama must also believe X because he attends X and hangs with X. Xept that's clearly not the rules. Obamas lack of experience is heralded as an opportunity for chance and change while Palins is lambasted as the very thing that is wrong with politics and America, we revel in mediocrity. Obamas experience as it were is magnified 10x whilst Palins is methodically bashed by most major media outlets. Obamas religion of choice is swept aside, he must not realy believe that, whilst Palins is labeled as extreme and the assumption is she believes every word. Obama is hailed as a great step for black people and Palin is persecuted as a step backwards for women. In all honesty and fairness I don't think Democrats and there media have disgusted me more. The lack of honesty with themselves as to who they have become is appaling. I like movies, I like entertainment, and I hear the spokespeople from that angle and my stomach just turns- I am quite upset that I can no longer pay money for anything Matt Damon does, or any number of stars that have gone full retard as of late. **** em.

[vbnautilus 48]

Why are you seemingly more apt to criticize or comment on Sarah Palin's religious views than those of other candidates including BHO?

Because she seems to be much more deeply influenced by the silliest parts of it. Obama has made his position more acceptable to me with statements like this: “I’m a Christian, and I believe in parents being able to provide children with religious instruction without interference from the state. But I also believe our schools are there to teach worldly knowledge and science. I believe in evolution, and I believe there’s a difference between science and faith. That doesn’t make faith any less important than science. It just means they’re two different things. And I think it’s a mistake to try to cloud the teaching of science with theories that frankly don’t hold up to scientific inquiry.”Whereas Palin apparently believes in creationism, and think it's ok for that to be taught in schools. Also, spending her life in a Pentecostal church means she absorbed some of the more radical and absurd religious practices associated with Christianity.

[vbnautilus 48]

I think what he is saying that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If it's o.k. to assume Palin believes X because she attends X or hangs with X than it Obama must also believe X because he attends X and hangs with X.

If she comes out and says that she doesn't believe in the crap her church teaches, that's one thing. Obama has done that. Palin has not. Let's hear what she has to say about creationism, the apocolypse, speaking in tongues, and snake handling.

[El Guapo 8]

I think what he is saying that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If it's o.k. to assume Palin believes X because she attends X or hangs with X than it Obama must also believe X because he attends X and hangs with X. Xept that's clearly not the rules. Obamas lack of experience is heralded as an opportunity for chance and change while Palins is lambasted as the very thing that is wrong with politics and America, we revel in mediocrity. Obamas experience as it were is magnified 10x whilst Palins is methodically bashed by most major media outlets. Obamas religion of choice is swept aside, he must not realy believe that, whilst Palins is labeled as extreme and the assumption is she believes every word. Obama is hailed as a great step for black people and Palin is persecuted as a step backwards for women. In all honesty and fairness I don't think Democrats and there media have disgusted me more. The lack of honesty with themselves as to who they have become is appaling. I like movies, I like entertainment, and I hear the spokespeople from that angle and my stomach just turns- I am quite upset that I can no longer pay money for anything Matt Damon does, or any number of stars that have gone full retard as of late. **** em.

Every once in a while you strike pay dirt with a post, this was one. Good job.

If she comes out and says that she doesn't believe in the crap her church teaches, that's one thing. Obama has done that. Palin has not. Let's hear what she has to say about creationism, the apocolypse, speaking in tongues, and snake handling.

1. When did Obama come out and say he didn't believe in his Churches teachings and belief systems2. Why did he go then? That is hypocrisy if I have ever heard it. "I went to XXX Church for the past 20 years, but I didn't believe any of the crap they taught"Was he there for networking? I don't get it.

[navybuttons 15]

If she comes out and says that she doesn't believe in the crap her church teaches

i don't think "crap" is fair."antiquated" yes, but just because my education is founded in the recent sciences doesn't mean there's nothing to be learned from the ideals of the past. i don't believe that they are the best way but it doesn't mean that those ideals can't help people to better their lives. ex: BG finding religion to help him overcome his chemical dependencies.btw, i think you are probably more like me than any other person on this forum with regards to my current ideals, education, outlook, habits, diet, etc.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

in this election i think that obama wins in the "values" debate.

WHAT!?!?!?! How???? First of all how do you know what his values are? He will say anything depending on to whom he is speaking. He gained political power by getting involved with probably the most politically corrupt political machines in the history of the nation. He is a typical politician that is more talented than most and a fantastic public speaker. If you do any digging into what he actually plans on doing, it is simply to socialize everything, raid big business coffers to fund his programs. ,

i'm just asking what about palin makes you think she is capable.same question.

She became governor of Alaska against the odds. She has stood up to and won against corrupt political machine, (see the difference between her and Obama) and won.

agree that she is not ashamed of her values. i don't agree with her values, but cest la vie. to say her values are "common" may stretch the truth a bit. to say that her values are aligned with yours is probably more accurate.

No, there was the Sam Harris article and some op eds this week trying to portray Palin supporters as celebrating her candidacy because she is unintelligent, uneducated, ect. This is a flat out falsehood. They don't see her as unintelligent, uneducated, or even as common, what they like about her is that she shares their values and is not ashamed to talk about them or hide them from the public. Her values are common among her supporters.

agree that she doesn't change her abortion answer. though i disagree with her view, i respect this about her. do you think deep down that she thinks we are doing god's work in iraq?

Charlie Gibson misquoted her(probably intentionally) to make it sound that way. The prayer she said was expressing the same sentiment as Abraham Lincoln. It would be hard to tell because Gibson left out key words from the actual prayer.

our education is slipping, our production is down, our financial irresponsibility is up, it's not that we see Americans and think they're stupid, it's that we think "how can we make them smarter?"

yes, and the people that have been running the education systems in this country at the grassroots level, and who have encouraged irresponsible spending all are in lockstep with the views of BO.

i am not a democrat and vb stated that he was not. perhaps most people with liberal leanings perceive things similarly???? the same way most christians or conservatives do?

Well, my point was that their perceptions have been wrong and cost them two presidential elections. I doubt vb is as liberal as the MSM but he does have a faulty view of why we like SP, and Sam Harris is wrong as well.

[hblask 1]

btw, i think you are probably more like me than any other person on this forum with regards to my current ideals, education, outlook, habits, diet, etc.

If you'd take the quiz in that other thread (something about 'what's your political position'), then we'd know for sure. Still waiting for DN to weigh in, too (so we can mock him).

[vbnautilus 48]

Every once in a while you strike pay dirt with a post, this was one. Good job.1. When did Obama come out and say he didn't believe in his Churches teachings and belief systems2. Why did he go then? That is hypocrisy if I have ever heard it. "I went to XXX Church for the past 20 years, but I didn't believe any of the crap they taught"Was he there for networking? I don't get it.

He said he didn't agree with the remarks his pastor was criticized for making:"I profoundly disagree with some of these statements." And then he left the church when that guy started saying negative things about Clinton. I'm not saying she needs to completely renounce everything ever taught in her church. If they taught her to be nice to people, that's cool with me. But does she really believe in creationism as it appears? (we know that Obama doesn't). Does she think people speaking in tongues are possessed by the Holy Spirit? Does she think the End is near? The fact is that if anything she has been letting us know that she does stick to a rather strict interpretation of her religion.

[vbnautilus 48]

i don't think "crap" is fair."antiquated" yes, but just because my education is founded in the recent sciences doesn't mean there's nothing to be learned from the ideals of the past. i don't believe that they are the best way but it doesn't mean that those ideals can't help people to better their lives. ex: BG finding religion to help him overcome his chemical dependencies.

I have no problem with the ideals of the past. Well, at least not by default. That's why I keep saying that what matters is how literally they take this stuff. I think that story and mythology are one of the most effective containers and communicators of human knowledge and can point to deep truths about the world. The problem I have is with dogma and literalism. The bible is not a source of historical or scientific knowledge, and is wrong about many things. When people treat it as a literal account of the earth's history and take the things from it that are clearly outdated and wrong as true simply because they are in that book, I see this is a huge failure of reality monitoring. In fact, this kind of treatment of the material can sacrifice some of its real value. For example: The death and resurrection of jesus is a metaphorical description of what happens when someone "dies" to their material being and has a spiritual rebirth, thus identifying with the whole instead of the individual. It's an important story which both predates the jesus version and appears around the world in various forms. It doesn't mean the dude actually died and came back to life, and people who read it that way are substituting a worship of the supernatural for a real appreciation of the natural human fact described in the story.

btw, i think you are probably more like me than any other person on this forum with regards to my current ideals, education, outlook, habits, diet, etc.

I think you're probably right.

[Sam Donaldson 0]

He said he didn't agree with the remarks his pastor was criticized for making:"I profoundly disagree with some of these statements." And then he left the church when that guy started saying negative things about Clinton. I'm not saying she needs to completely renounce everything ever taught in her church. If they taught her to be nice to people, that's cool with me. But does she really believe in creationism as it appears? (we know that Obama doesn't). Does she think people speaking in tongues are possessed by the Holy Spirit? Does she think the End is near? The fact is that if anything she has been letting us know that she does stick to a rather strict interpretation of her religion.

Obama left the church for the same reason he joined it, to gain political prominence. McCain is doing the same thing now with Palin. He needed to solidify his base in hopes of winning the presidency so he chose her. As for Palin's beliefs. I don't know what she believes or doesn't, only she does. This one of many reasons I have such a hard time choosing a candidate. Seeing through the bs to pick the right person is not easy, and it's damn near impossible when you bring in religion, because you don't know if they're being honest or if they're just trying to win.

[vbnautilus 48]

Obama left the church for the same reason he joined it, to gain political prominence. McCain is doing the same thing now with Palin. He needed to solidify his base in hopes of winning the presidency so he chose her. As for Palin's beliefs. I don't know what she believes or doesn't, only she does. This one of many reasons I have such a hard time choosing a candidate. Seeing through the bs to pick the right person is not easy, and it's damn near impossible when you bring in religion, because you don't know if they're being honest or if they're just trying to win.

Yes, you're right, one could say that even though Obama denies he shares that belief with his Pastor, he really does harbor the same feelings covertly. I think that's wrong, but its a reasonable position to hold. But Palin has not denied sharing the extreme beliefs of her church.

[irishguy 14]

I think what he is saying that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If it's o.k. to assume Palin believes X because she attends X or hangs with X than it Obama must also believe X because he attends X and hangs with X. Xept that's clearly not the rules. Obamas lack of experience is heralded as an opportunity for chance and change while Palins is lambasted as the very thing that is wrong with politics and America, we revel in mediocrity. Obamas experience as it were is magnified 10x whilst Palins is methodically bashed by most major media outlets. Obamas religion of choice is swept aside, he must not realy believe that, whilst Palins is labeled as extreme and the assumption is she believes every word. Obama is hailed as a great step for black people and Palin is persecuted as a step backwards for women. In all honesty and fairness I don't think Democrats and there media have disgusted me more. The lack of honesty with themselves as to who they have become is appaling. I like movies, I like entertainment, and I hear the spokespeople from that angle and my stomach just turns- I am quite upset that I can no longer pay money for anything Matt Damon does, or any number of stars that have gone full retard as of late. **** em.

The thing is that the exact same thing can be said about the republican side of things. Running on a platform of change was ridiculous until it made big waves, now it's the platform for both campaigns. Some things that Michelle Obama said (the soundbytes anyways) caused her to be labed a radical and anti Americanl, so much so that she was literally pictured as such on magazine covers and was a practioner of the "terrorist fist bump" yet now according to conservatives Todd Palin's past politcal associations have no need to be mentioned. Obama's church etc were deemed predjudiced and anti-american and soundbytes were run on constant loop and yes even in the msm but now Palin's church and her beliefs and those of her husband shoud be off the table. Obama's level of experience was the biggest point of contention for the republican party when the race started but then Palin was picked as VP so now it isn't mentioned . The way you feel about the democrats and there media is very much inline with how I feel about many conservatives at this point. I feel bad that you will let your polical views stop you from enjoying great entertainers but at least you'll still have Chuck Norris and Ben Stein.

[El Guapo 8]

You don't find it convenient that after 20 years of going to the same Church, that once the belief system is called into question Obama leaves and speaks out against it?