Conquering Mixed Games

[Pdiddydog 0]

I agree with checky, who ended up scooping the pot? IMO both are spewtards unless our Villain has slowplayed rolled up 9's or Aces. 100th post!!!! Oh yeaaaaa

[gfdsa146 0]

I agree with checky, who ended up scooping the pot? IMO both are spewtards unless our Villain has slowplayed rolled up 9's or Aces. 100th post!!!! Oh yeaaaaa

woot woot! Unknown started with (39)9 on 3rd and the spewtard had three high cards.

[Pdiddydog 0]

Here is a topic for discussion: When do you limp in Stud 8 or Better cash games?

[gfdsa146 0]

Here is a topic for discussion: When do you limp in Stud 8 or Better cash games?

I limp /w hands that should be monsters if they're live, but have a lot of outs dead already. Like 763. If there's a 4 and 5 dead already and there are other babies already limped in, i'll limp along. Is it a smart move to defend your bring-in with Q63 in stud 8? All my opponents are doing it.

[Pdiddydog 0]

I limp /w hands that should be monsters if they're live, but have a lot of outs dead already. Like 763. If there's a 4 and 5 dead already and there are other babies already limped in, i'll limp along. Is it a smart move to defend your bring-in with Q63 in stud 8? All my opponents are doing it.

Not only are your opponents doing it but the players deep in the HORSE wcoop were doing it also, it is not correct.

[gfdsa146 0]

i might convert this later, anyone like the 5th street check?PokerStars Game #20544994300: 7 Card Stud Hi/Lo Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/09/20 1:08:08 ETTable 'Caph II' 8-maxSeat 1: 'andyman ($28 in chips) Seat 2: nantelope ($21.55 in chips) Seat 3: gfdsa146 ($11.80 in chips) Seat 4: duffer000 ($24.25 in chips) Seat 5: BrianK 607 ($17.45 in chips) Seat 6: illBurHklbry ($13.55 in chips) Seat 7: WILLeatCHIPS ($17 in chips) Seat 8: jaa-ray ($45.80 in chips) 'andyman: posts the ante $0.05nantelope: posts the ante $0.05gfdsa146: posts the ante $0.05duffer000: posts the ante $0.05BrianK 607: posts the ante $0.05illBurHklbry: posts the ante $0.05WILLeatCHIPS: posts the ante $0.05jaa-ray: posts the ante $0.05*** 3rd STREET ***Dealt to 'andyman [6d]Dealt to nantelope [8d]Dealt to gfdsa146 [Td Jd Jc]Dealt to duffer000 [3d]Dealt to BrianK 607 [4c]Dealt to illBurHklbry [3c]Dealt to WILLeatCHIPS [9s]Dealt to jaa-ray [6h]illBurHklbry: brings in for $0.25WILLeatCHIPS: folds jaa-ray: calls $0.25'andyman: folds nantelope: folds gfdsa146: raises $0.25 to $0.50duffer000: calls $0.50BrianK 607: folds illBurHklbry: folds jaa-ray: calls $0.25*** 4th STREET ***Dealt to gfdsa146 [Td Jd Jc] [Jh]Dealt to duffer000 [3d] [7d]Dealt to jaa-ray [6h] [Js]gfdsa146: bets $0.50duffer000: calls $0.50jaa-ray: calls $0.50*** 5th STREET ***Dealt to gfdsa146 [Td Jd Jc Jh] [5d]Dealt to duffer000 [3d 7d] [8h]Dealt to jaa-ray [6h Js] [7h]gfdsa146: checks duffer000: bets $1jaa-ray: calls $1gfdsa146: raises $1 to $2duffer000: raises $1 to $3jaa-ray: calls $2gfdsa146: raises $1 to $4Betting is cappedduffer000: calls $1jaa-ray: calls $1*** 6th STREET ***Dealt to gfdsa146 [Td Jd Jc Jh 5d] [5s]Dealt to duffer000 [3d 7d 8h] [9h]Dealt to jaa-ray [6h Js 7h] [5h]gfdsa146: bets $1duffer000: calls $1jaa-ray: calls $1*** RIVER ***Dealt to gfdsa146 [Td Jd Jc Jh 5d 5s] [Ad]gfdsa146: bets $1duffer000: calls $1jaa-ray: raises $1 to $2gfdsa146: raises $1 to $3duffer000: calls $2jaa-ray: raises $1 to $4Betting is cappedgfdsa146: calls $1duffer000: calls $1*** SHOW DOWN ***jaa-ray: shows [As 2c 6h Js 7h 5h 3h] (HI: high card Ace; LO: 6,5,3,2,A)gfdsa146: shows [Td Jd Jc Jh 5d 5s Ad] (HI: a full house, Jacks full of Fives)duffer000: mucks hand gfdsa146 collected $15.10 from potjaa-ray collected $15.05 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $30.65 | Rake $0.50 Seat 1: 'andyman folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)Seat 2: nantelope folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)Seat 3: gfdsa146 showed [Td Jd Jc Jh 5d 5s Ad] and won ($15.10) with HI: a full house, Jacks full of FivesSeat 4: duffer000 mucked [4s 2s 3d 7d 8h 9h 3s]Seat 5: BrianK 607 folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)Seat 6: illBurHklbry folded on the 3rd StreetSeat 7: WILLeatCHIPS folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)Seat 8: jaa-ray showed [As 2c 6h Js 7h 5h 3h] and won ($15.05) with HI: high card Ace; LO: 6,5,3,2,A

[Pdiddydog 0]

I would have done the same thing, which is win

[checkymcfold 0]

Here is a topic for discussion: When do you limp in Stud 8 or Better cash games?

i'm a little (lot) drunk right now, but...this is something i waver on a LOT. i used to be of the opinion that you should never open limp in stud8, then i backed off that opinion and limped clean low draws with no real high possibility, and now i limp almost any low draw that doesn't have an ace door in an effort to induce multiway pots with multiway hands for big scoops while making myself a bit harder to read when i hit a monster draw on 4th.i think i've evolved, but i may have done some devolving as well. tough to say. i'll probably change this post a lot when i wake up sober.

[checkymcfold 0]

i might convert this later, anyone like the 5th street check?

4th street by your opponents is fking adorable. :Di like the play--against idiots, it's a surefire way to get action all the way down. it's a very dangerous move to make against good players as you move up, though.

[Pdiddydog 0]

4th street by your opponents is fking adorable. :Di like the play--against idiots, it's a surefire way to get action all the way down. it's a very dangerous move to make against good players as you move up, though.

I agree checky, I was watching the hand go down and believe me excluding 146 each one of them was bad to the extreme.

[gfdsa146 0]

4th street by your opponents is fking adorable. :Di like the play--against idiots, it's a surefire way to get action all the way down. it's a very dangerous move to make against good players as you move up, though.

4th street is pretty much standard around here. People will call with 3-low against better looking boards consistently.

[checkymcfold 0]

4th street is pretty much standard around here. People will call with 3-low against better looking boards consistently.

o shit this is stud8, i told you i was drunk, lol.def fold 3rd, ainec, against that many good door cards.if you happen to get to 4th, betting there is fine since one guy bricked and the other caught an unlikely str8 card (but if they both caught goot lows i would c/c), but starting on 5th you're in c/c mode until you boat up.

[jmbreslin 0]

I limp /w hands that should be monsters if they're live, but have a lot of outs dead already. Like 763. If there's a 4 and 5 dead already and there are other babies already limped in, i'll limp along.

If you know some of your outs are dead already, why even play that hand?

[jmbreslin 0]

gfdsa, what's the reason for the 3rd street raise in the hand you posted? Was it because you were likely ahead on the high side and all the low door cards reduced the chances that someone would take the low half? Stud-8 is probably the game I have the least experience with.

[gfdsa146 0]

If you know some of your outs are dead already, why even play that hand?

A 7-low is better than the random 843 or shitty 3-card eight-highs people will play at my limits. So I have a tiny equity edge on the low side.A hand like 743 is awesome on paper, assuming all its scoop outs are live, and better than a razzy hand like 863 for the specific reason that it can scoop by making a low straight. The more scoop outs that are dead, the more a hand like 743 starts to get closer in value to 863 (which essentially can only play for half the pot). I set the dead outs "threshold" at two arbitrarily, mainly because I don't know who to look to for the right answer as far as this is concerned. But I'm open to being proven wrong.

[gfdsa146 0]

gfdsa, what's the reason for the 3rd street raise in the hand you posted? Was it because you were likely ahead on the high side and all the low door cards reduced the chances that someone would take the low half? Stud-8 is probably the game I have the least experience with.

def fold 3rd, ainec, against that many good door cards.

Yes. I was likely ahead on the high side.As far as having a big pair on 3rd and whether or not to raise into babies that have yet to act - this is my philosophy. First of all, I'm only raising assumming i have the biggest pair on 3rd; and its even more important to be sure of this in stud8 as the high pair will very often be playing for half. So if you're gonna be playing for only half of the pot, you better be sure that you're gonna win it most of the time by being the main contender for it. Now, at an 8-handed game, if there are only two babies out (the bring-in included), i'm gonna raise just because for value and to scoop; the bring in or the non-bring in baby don't have to have 3-to-a-low in which case they're folding, and if one of the other high cards call, you're most likely ahead. The other case that I'm raising the big pair on 3rd is if there are a lot of babies out for the specific reason that there are a lot of dead babies. A lot of dead babies should lead to people on low draws bricking on 4th where I can thin the field or catching good on 4th and bricking on 5th where I can get money in as a favorite to scoop against a low draw that is exclusively low. I also don't mind playing multi-way pots on 3rd against a bunch of babies either because it makes it more likely that they're all holding 3-babies in their hand, making the prospect of chasing a low more -EV. Another important attribute to have if you're going to go this path is being confident and good in your ability to play post 3rd; mainly, to know where you're up against someone who's got a scoop draw. For example, in the hand that i posted, if duffer makes an open 3d4d and jaa-ray makes an open 65 offsuit, I'm 100% checking against them. As far as what i'd do if they bet, i'd most likely fold.But if its somewhere in the middle where half of the table has babies showing and half doesnt, I'm folding more often than not.This is another subject, such as when to limp in stud8, that I haven't been able to get an official textbook answer for. So I make up my own answer. But again, I'm willing to accept the fact that I could be wrong if anyone wants to take a shot at my explanation.

[gfdsa146 0]

if you happen to get to 4th, betting there is fine since one guy bricked and the other caught an unlikely str8 card (but if they both caught goot lows i would c/c), but starting on 5th you're in c/c mode until you boat up.

*** 5th STREET ***Dealt to gfdsa146 [Td Jd Jc Jh] [5d]Dealt to duffer000 [3d 7d] [8h]Dealt to jaa-ray [6h Js] [7h]gfdsa146: checks duffer000: bets $1jaa-ray: calls $1 --> he's got his foot in the door. At these levels that usually means that he's not budging.gfdsa146: raises $1 to $2duffer000: raises $1 to $3jaa-ray: calls $2gfdsa146: raises $1 to $4Betting is cappedduffer000: calls $1jaa-ray: calls $1If I check/call I lose alllll the extra bets i could get jaa-ray to put in drawing pretty much dead on both sides

[gfdsa146 0]

Stud-8 is probably the game I have the least experience with.

Unfortunately, there are not shortcuts to take in feeling comfortable in this game. You just gotta play. You can read up on optimal strategy and that'll help you cover like 80% of the situations you'll run into. But those other 20% just isnt covered in books.

[KingJames 11]

i'm a little (lot) drunk right now, but...this is something i waver on a LOT. i used to be of the opinion that you should never open limp in stud8, then i backed off that opinion and limped clean low draws with no real high possibility, and now i limp almost any low draw that doesn't have an ace door in an effort to induce multiway pots with multiway hands for big scoops while making myself a bit harder to read when i hit a monster draw on 4th.i think i've evolved, but i may have done some devolving as well. tough to say. i'll probably change this post a lot when i wake up sober.

I like this...

[Pdiddydog 0]

gfdsa, what's the reason for the 3rd street raise in the hand you posted? Was it because you were likely ahead on the high side and all the low door cards reduced the chances that someone would take the low half? Stud-8 is probably the game I have the least experience with.

There are alot of dead babies and he can still get heads up with pair of J's. This is where alot of Stud 8 players clash, there are those who think that you should just fold and those who think it is better to raise when their is alot of dead babies out. The thing is neither is wrong just different methods.

[Pdiddydog 0]

This is a two part discussion question: What are your typical starting hand requirements in short handed (4 or less) Omaha 8 or Better? Also what hands do you generally complete with in the small blind and what hands do you fold for the half bet?

[checkymcfold 0]

This is a two part discussion question: What are your typical starting hand requirements in short handed (4 or less) Omaha 8 or Better? Also what hands do you generally complete with in the small blind and what hands do you fold for the half bet?

assuming that the pot will be HU most of the time:1. raise or fold anything, or limp behind with a very, very small set of hands.2. any 4 low cards=open raise unless they make bad lows and contain a pair.3. any pair KK or AA=raise4. any pair 99-QQ with a low draw of any kind=raiseif the pot's unlikely to be HU, i play fairly "conventional" o8 hands only that either have a2 or a3 or are fairly strong multidirectionally or scoop high boards.in the sb, these really don't change.

[Pdiddydog 0]

How much do you widen your range for heads up checky out of curiosity?

[checkymcfold 0]

How much do you widen your range for heads up checky out of curiosity?

when i'm playing HU, i tend to classify my opponents into two types: those against whom i should raise nearly every hand from the button and those against whom i should limp nearly every button.edit: my o8 is probably my rustiest game right now, and i haven't played it HU regularly in over a year, so take that with a grain of salt.

[jmbreslin 0]

This thread has turned into quite a good discussion of mixed game strategy. Nice work.