Aba20, Sbrugby, Briantownsend, Caught Multiaccounting

[Waffles2003 1]

http://blogs.cardrunners.com/Brian

[Billionaire 0]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=285131two plus two is making a big deal about this but failed to remember a time when patrik antonius and david b had like 10 accounts going, he wanted some anonymity i don't think what he did was wrong, but you be the judge.

[HighwayStar 8]

Weird how 2 threads appear simultaneously on the same thing which broke about 12 hours ago..Also, wow

[Billionaire 0]

thoughts from anyone else on whether or not what he did was wrong or not? I think if you are playing poker you shouldn't feel cheated if someone drops down and plays you. This brings me back to what phil laak did at the WSOP. Poker is situational, wouldn't these 25/50 players improve their play greatly by playing btownsend, shouldn't they thank him?

[Waffles2003 1]

mine was created 1 minute before his, copycat...

[Billionaire 0]

mine was created 1 minute before his, copycat...

haha, i know i saw yours and was like...damn it!i think its funny one of the accounts townsend was using is Stellarnebula and if you sharkscope it, it shows he played 19 $1 sit n gos...wtf?

[Waffles2003 1]

haha, i know i saw yours and was like...damn it!i think its funny one of the accounts townsend was using is Stellarnebula and if you sharkscope it, it shows he played 19 $1 sit n gos...wtf?

prob for online videos

[checkymcfold 0]

when is someone going to get permanently banned from online poker because of cheating like this?edit: i'm pretty sick of people getting their dick sucked on 4 and elsewhere after cheating in a time where scandals like this come up so often and have destroyed the image of poker in the eyes of the public.

[Billionaire 0]

when is someone going to get permanently banned from online poker because of cheating like this?edit: i'm pretty sick of people getting their dick sucked on 4 and elsewhere after cheating in a time where scandals like this come up so often and have destroyed the image of poker in the eyes of the public.

yea but something like this wont really get the public who doesn't love poker already

[SeattlePoker 0]

I don't see the big deal. What's wrong with having multiple screen names if you never play them at the same time (something full tilt and pokerstars can easily track)? Why are people so mad about this? If this is so wrong, shouldn't Phil Laak be getting berated for wearing a disguise to the WSOP then as he was effectively playing under a different screen name?Maybe I'm way off. I just need the outrage explained to me.

[checkymcfold 0]

yea but something like this wont really get the public who doesn't love poker already

that's more an effect of what's happening than what really bugs me about it all. it's a matter of ridiculous double standards to which the sites and the poker community writ large hold top, middle, and bottom tier players. i find it pretty fucking hard to believe that if i created another account on stars, and got caught, that lee jones would come talk to me privately before making it public or closing my acct. and that's bullshit, in all honesty.if everyone can multiaccount, then fine, that's fair.if no one can multiaccount, then fine, that's also fair.but what's happening now and the way it's being handled is totally ridiculous and has now succeeded in tilting me something awful today.

[Billionaire 0]

I don't see the big deal. What's wrong with having multiple screen names if you never play them at the same time (something full tilt and pokerstars can easily track)? Why are people so mad about this? If this is so wrong, shouldn't Phil Laak be getting berated for wearing a disguise to the WSOP then as he was effectively playing under a different screen name?Maybe I'm way off. I just need the outrage explained to me.

you obviously haven't read anything above, but i appreciate the agreement!

[ah2388 0]

if you have a read on your opponent and how they play, and they have the same for you....and then suddenly your read of them is taken away because of there multi accounting, whilst they have the same reads on you...does that not give them a distinct advantage?

[Gallo 1]

that's more an effect of what's happening than what really bugs me about it all. it's a matter of ridiculous double standards to which the sites and the poker community writ large hold top, middle, and bottom tier players. i find it pretty fucking hard to believe that if i created another account on stars, and got caught, that lee jones would come talk to me privately before making it public or closing my acct. and that's bullshit, in all honesty.if everyone can multiaccount, then fine, that's fair.if no one can multiaccount, then fine, that's also fair.but what's happening now and the way it's being handled is totally ridiculous and has now succeeded in tilting me something awful today.

So should programs that datamine and gather info about players be allowed? What is your take on it?

[checkymcfold 0]

So should programs that datamine and gather info about players be allowed? What is your take on it?

i don't care one way or the other as long as it's a clear and evenly applied rule. as someone who barely uses pokertracker, it'd probably be better for me if no one was allowed to use anything like that, but i can't complain if everyone is allowed the same opportunities in that regard.

[Sheiky 0]

that's more an effect of what's happening than what really bugs me about it all. it's a matter of ridiculous double standards to which the sites and the poker community writ large hold top, middle, and bottom tier players. i find it pretty fucking hard to believe that if i created another account on stars, and got caught, that lee jones would come talk to me privately before making it public or closing my acct. and that's bullshit, in all honesty.if everyone can multiaccount, then fine, that's fair.if no one can multiaccount, then fine, that's also fair.but what's happening now and the way it's being handled is totally ridiculous and has now succeeded in tilting me something awful today.

What? Lee Jones doesn't work for Pokerstars, he was talking to Brian about how to deal with it from a CardRunners perspective as he is a CardRunners staffer.I don't really see what you're angry at, he's never going to be able to play on a seperate account again, so I don't see where him being a big name gives him any advantage in this.

[Royal_Tour 0]

i don't care one way or the other as long as it's a clear and evenly applied rule. as someone who barely uses pokertracker, it'd probably be better for me if no one was allowed to use anything like that, but i can't complain if everyone is allowed the same opportunities in that regard.

agree.allowed to multi account, or not allowed. why the grey area with penalties or canceling of new accounts.. just close all the accounts owned by that person with an email saying. You breached the contract provided by said site.also. whats the Jon Little story about him abusing his employer+?

[Sheiky 0]

agree.allowed to multi account, or not allowed. why the grey area with penalties or canceling of new accounts.. just close all the accounts owned by that person with an email saying. You breached the contract provided by said site.also. whats the Jon Little story about him abusing his employer+?

Where is the grey area here? He's never going to play on his other accounts and he's losing his red-pro status for 6 months. If you or anybody were to be caught multi accounting, I imagine the same would happen to you - You're second account would be closed and the money transfered over. Jon Little was a Full Tilt pro who got 35/hour to play and 100% rakeback, he let his friend use his account to play SNGs while he was playing the NBC HU event and he got caught and his status revoked.

[checkymcfold 0]

What? Lee Jones doesn't work for Pokerstars, he was talking to Brian about how to deal with it from a CardRunners perspective as he is a CardRunners staffer.I don't really see what you're angry at, he's never going to be able to play on a seperate account again, so I don't see where him being a big name gives him any advantage in this.

i was under the impression that lee came back to stars in some capacity. i could be wrong, though.in any case, as i said before, the problem isn't the rule itself, or someone breaking it, but rather the way that sites and the poker community writ large respond to it.if you or i did it:1. the consequences of our cheating would affect people less, because the games we play are both lower stakes and significantly less read-dependent. if anything, we should thus be punished less.2. if we got caught, it is entirely unlikely that we'd get a chance to publicly defend ourselves, or that 4-ers would call us great people for admitting it as they are with brian.the problem is the double standard in applying consequences, not the rule or even a specific instance of its being broken.

[copernicus 0]

What he did is wrong, what ZeeJustin did was wrong, Laak's disguise at the WSOP was wrong, and datamining should not be allowed.How does BT dropping down and playing lower stakes benefit those lower stakes players if they don't know who they're playing? If DN played a DS tournament under a different screen name and executed perfect small ball, would those who played against him gain anything or would his anonymity result in those players not giving him the credibility that his reputation has earned?

[Royal_Tour 0]

Where is the grey area here? He's never going to play on his other accounts and he's losing his red-pro status for 6 months. If you or anybody were to be caught multi accounting, I imagine the same would happen to you - You're second account would be closed and the money transfered over. Jon Little was a Full Tilt pro who got 35/hour to play and 100% rakeback, he let his friend use his account to play SNGs while he was playing the NBC HU event and he got caught and his status revoked.

I thought different penalties have been given out for different multiaccounting issues.like the Zjustin thing.. should there be different penalties for people who get caught multi accounting the same tournament vs someone who just uses more than 1 account?

[Sheiky 0]

i was under the impression that lee came back to stars in some capacity. i could be wrong, though.in any case, as i said before, the problem isn't the rule itself, or someone breaking it, but rather the way that sites and the poker community writ large respond to it.if you or i did it:1. the consequences of our cheating would affect people less, because the games we play are both lower stakes and significantly less read-dependent. if anything, we should thus be punished less.2. if we got caught, it is entirely unlikely that we'd get a chance to publicly defend ourselves, or that 4-ers would call us great people for admitting it as they are with brian.the problem is the double standard in applying consequences, not the rule or even a specific instance of its being broken.

I dis-agree with the second point. A) We would get the chance to publicly defend ourself if any of the public actualy gave a damn about us and B) No one has given Townsend any special privelages, he wrote an entry on his own blog, a thread was started about him on a public forum, and then he created his own thread offering to answer questions.

[CaneBrain 95]

i find it pretty fucking hard to believe that if i created another account on stars, and got caught, that lee jones would come talk to me privately before making it public or closing my acct. and that's bullshit, in all honesty.

hi. I'm Earth. Just so you know, supremely talented people often get unfair advantages on Earth. Why would you expect the gambling world (of all places) to be any different?This is not as bad as some of the other multi-accounting stories I have seen. He didnt play multiple accounts at the same time.....he did not affect the structural integrity of the game. He just hid his own identity. Was he wrong? Sure. But an apology and a donation to charity and a 6 month "red status" suspension and a promise to not do it again seems like a punishment that fits the crime.

[checkymcfold 0]

i don't think that very many of you understand the amount of money that can be lost developing a read on someone in high stakes games.

[Sheiky 0]

I thought different penalties have been given out for different multiaccounting issues.like the Zjustin thing.. should there be different penalties for people who get caught multi accounting the same tournament vs someone who just uses more than 1 account?

Multi accounting in the same tournament is one step more severe than using seperate accounts in different sessions.To those asking questions about how much of an edge you think Brian was gaining, I think it's widely overestimated. That doesn't make multiaccounting right, but the edge gained is pretty miniscule. To use another example, I've played Lars Luzak on probably 5 accounts in the past year. For a session or 2, yes he would gain an edge, but myself and most HS regulars are smart enough to spot when they're playing a familiar opponent. Also, after 100 hands or so I could make a judgment on the opponent's general skill level and decide whether or not it's a good idea to continue, so those who played Brian must have still thought the games were plenty good, it's not like knowing that it's Brian Townsend should really change anything, just whether it's a good regular or not.Also, Brian only used the accounts in 6 handed PLO games, in which I believe he was a losing player at the time he created the accounts (as was I a year ago or so). He did occasionally play HU at 6 handed tables but would not do so against players who denied him action on his known accounts. Basically what I'm trying to say is edge wasn't his reason for doing this, it's still wrong, but comparing it to seeing hole cards or playing several accounts in the same tourney is ridiculous.- Stinger88