Ak Facing Heat

[IQCrash 1]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Button ($229.65)SB ($57.30)BB ($135.60)UTG ($21.35)UTG+1 ($16.15)MP1 ($119.45)Hero ($103.20)CO ($105.60)Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K , A . 3 folds, Hero raises to $4, CO raises to $12, 3 folds, Hero calls $8.Flop: ($25.50) 4 , A , 5 (2 players)Hero bets $15, CO raises to $30, Hero ?Villain is running 15/15 over 86 hands.Thoughts?

[SlapStick 0]

Why the donk bet? or mainly why the donkbet if you don't know what your going to do when he raises. If we raise we are committing basically.I don't understand the stats, but 86 hands isnt much anyway. Have you any sort of image at the table so far? If we can rule out he won't be 3-betting here pre-flop with 44-55, then we are in great shape here. I'm not going to worry about trip aces. If we know he is aggressive, I'll flat here, check the turn and raise him all in on the turn where he should be committed. If not, value the river.Maybe I'm wrong but I'm not worried about my hand not being the strongest.

[Syous 0]

Why the donk bet? or mainly why the donkbet if you don't know what your going to do when he raises. If we raise we are committing basically.I don't understand the stats, but 86 hands isnt much anyway. Have you any sort of image at the table so far? If we can rule out he won't be 3-betting here pre-flop with 44-55, then we are in great shape here. I'm not going to worry about trip aces. If we know he is aggressive, I'll flat here, check the turn and raise him all in on the turn where he should be committed. If not, value the river.Maybe I'm wrong but I'm not worried about my hand not being the strongest.

I really like the questions you're asking slapstick.What is the purpose of your donkbet, IQ. Looking at a hand and seeing player stats simply is not enough. We need your reads and thought process on what's going on and what you're doing for us to develop as well as help you grow.

[IQCrash 1]

I have no reads on the villain other than his stats, which are pretty minimal.As for betting the flop, I want to start building the pot in case he's the type of player who's going to have a hard time laying down hands like KK or QQ in this spot. And if I got raised, the plan was to stick it in - if he three bet with 44 or 55, so be it, but the plan was to get it all in if he raised. Are you saying you'd prefer a check here?

[AcesOnFire 0]

No, prefer a larger bet.

[trystero 0]

Play looks fine - appears to be a "feeler bet" that will get raised by a variety of holdings. A big c/r would also work. I don't even mind flat calling and shoving a blank turn, so as to represent a flush draw - or would a c/r ai otf accomplish that?When AK flops TPTK in a 3-bet pot you can't really get away from it. What I don't like doing is bet/all_in because that looks very strong, and the last hand you want to represent is 44.

[SlapStick 0]

I have no reads on the villain other than his stats, which are pretty minimal.As for betting the flop, I want to start building the pot in case he's the type of player who's going to have a hard time laying down hands like KK or QQ in this spot. And if I got raised, the plan was to stick it in - if he three bet with 44 or 55, so be it, but the plan was to get it all in if he raised. Are you saying you'd prefer a check here?

Well the way you posted I assumed you didnt know what you were going to do, apparently you had a plan for this. My point was if you are making a donk bet you should know what you'll do when you're raised. But you basically have the answer figured out already. I wasn't saying a bet was wrong. The checking and betting player dependent I guess, and once you do it with your made hands and air. The Ace should probably kill our action, checking might bet another continuation bet out of him.I said earlier I like flatting the raise and going for a c-r on the turn but maybe hes doing that to slow us down and he'll check behind on the turn.

[ABigMotivation 0]

Yeah I would c/r on the flop. As played, I really don't know what his 3-bet range is that beats you here, save AA, but thats unlikely. So I shove here.

[Syous 0]

I have no reads on the villain other than his stats, which are pretty minimal.As for betting the flop, I want to start building the pot in case he's the type of player who's going to have a hard time laying down hands like KK or QQ in this spot. And if I got raised, the plan was to stick it in - if he three bet with 44 or 55, so be it, but the plan was to get it all in if he raised. Are you saying you'd prefer a check here?

you can donkbet this flop if you want to work it into your game but I would much rather c/r this flop after calling a 3bet. I'm much more comfortable w/c/ring than I am w/donk betting. It just depends how well you can work it in your game. However w/tptk and a flop that he'll always fire at if he has nothing, i like c/ring still. If he checks behind the flop, just pot turn and shove riverwhat was your reasoning for not 4betting pf?

[IQCrash 1]

what was your reasoning for not 4betting pf?

Being OOP, mostly.

[SwolyswoND 1]

Being OOP, mostly.

Isn't that an argument FOR 4-betting PF? Flatting the 3-bet is better when you are in position, whether you think you are behind or ahead the villain's range.

[Scott3705 0]

Flat call... C/R turn. You could get a another value bet out of AQ- since your hand could look like a stubborn weak ace, or you may even get some one to run a bluff thinking you have a weakish ace kicker and could fold the turn. I think you're getting another bet a lot on the turn.

[tskillz187 0]

I think 4betting pf here is rough, especially if he hasn't 3bet you pf yet. Has he? Our 4bet will be to something like $35-$42 then we are playing AK oop with a ~3/4-pot bet left. I don't think that's incredibly profitable. If we think 4betting is going to get him to fold lots of hands because he's a frequent 3-bettor then we might as well 4bet with any 2, cuz we're taking the value of the hand away. The only way I like 4-betting here pf is if he has been 3-betting a lot and will either 5-bet shove worse, or call 4-bets with worse. I don't know how likely that is, but it's something you should try to find or give us the reads on if you have. I think standard play against those stats is to call the 3-bet OOP, and C/R flops like these.As played, I don't think you have any other play but a shove.

[Syous 0]

Isn't that an argument FOR 4-betting PF? Flatting the 3-bet is better when you are in position, whether you think you are behind or ahead the villain's range.

absolutely. You nailed that one like a pedophile on a 5 year old

I think 4betting pf here is rough, especially if he hasn't 3bet you pf yet. Has he? Our 4bet will be to something like $35-$42 then we are playing AK oop with a ~3/4-pot bet left. I don't think that's incredibly profitable. If we think 4betting is going to get him to fold lots of hands because he's a frequent 3-bettor then we might as well 4bet with any 2, cuz we're taking the value of the hand away. The only way I like 4-betting here pf is if he has been 3-betting a lot and will either 5-bet shove worse, or call 4-bets with worse. I don't know how likely that is, but it's something you should try to find or give us the reads on if you have. I think standard play against those stats is to call the 3-bet OOP, and C/R flops like these.As played, I don't think you have any other play but a shove.

I like your argument skillz becuase it's well thought out and it's a wise route. However, the biggest problem with this hand in general is that it is against an unknown. It's quite difficult to calculate how wide or tight his range is. Because of this, rather than mind**** yourself, I would much rather play it straight forward and get it in. It is the easiest route however I also think it's the most +ev because we have no reads to play it oop. This is def. one of the hands where i wouldn't think twice about 4betting and getting it in. It helps loosen your image and it's not a terribly large mistake even if we find out villain is a very tight 3bettor despite being on the button.And as played, I would kill anyone who even thought about folding

[Zach6668 513]

I raise ATC when you donk there (not a min raise though), so shove.

[tskillz187 0]

I would much rather play it straight forward and get it in. It is the easiest route however I also think it's the most +ev because we have no reads to play it oop. This is def. one of the hands where i wouldn't think twice about 4betting and getting it in. It helps loosen your image and it's not a terribly large mistake even if we find out villain is a very tight 3bettor despite being on the button.

I'm not sure I'm reading your post correctly. Are you saying 4bet from $12 to $105? Or are you saying 4 bet to ~$40 (calling 5 bet all in, obv) and then shove any flop if 4bet is called?

[Syous 0]

I'm not sure I'm reading your post correctly. Are you saying 4bet from $12 to $105? Or are you saying 4 bet to ~$40 (calling 5 bet all in, obv) and then shove any flop if 4bet is called?

4bet from $12 to 28ish yes w/the intention of calling a 5bhave people started calling 4bets a lot w/100bb stacks at lower stakes too? I've encountered it but in general I think it's a retarded move

[tskillz187 0]

4bet from $12 to 28ish yes w/the intention of calling a 5bhave people started calling 4bets a lot w/100bb stacks at lower stakes too? I've encountered it but in general I think it's a retarded move

Eek, yeah I'd feel really uncomfortable 4betting OOP with AK to only $28. I think generally you will get called a lot here, I like 4betting small in position, not OOP. I thought that was the general rule: 4bet small from position 4bet big OOP. Can you explain why the small 4bet? I feel like if you're 4betting small pf, you shouldn't be stacking off on random flops, maybe that wasn't your initial argument though.

[SlapStick 0]

I raise ATC when you donk there (not a min raise though), so shove.

whats calling?

[Syous 0]

Eek, yeah I'd feel really uncomfortable 4betting OOP with AK to only $28. I think generally you will get called a lot here, I like 4betting small in position, not OOP. I thought that was the general rule: 4bet small from position 4bet big OOP. Can you explain why the small 4bet? I feel like if you're 4betting small pf, you shouldn't be stacking off on random flops, maybe that wasn't your initial argument though.

I don't expect to get called really. If i start getting called, then I'll just 4bet for value. I 3bet small in position and bigger oop, 3x and 4x respectively. I don't like to 4bet more than 25-30% of my stack, otherwise it commits me w/hands I don't want to be commited with and it's too expensive.

whats calling?

zach actually touched on a really good point about donk betting. donk betting induces a bluff, that's really the only point of it - or if u think villain will stack off light. by leading out, it costs villain more to bluff, so you actually gain a little more there than if u just c/r'd

[Zach6668 513]

whats calling?

3rd pair in my games, but probably not much here. :-P