Russia-georgia Conflict

[Balloon guy 158]

QFT

High FiveI knew right away you got it and were giving it right back. Anything less from you would have been a dissapointment

[copernicus 0]

Serious post though, It does look like russia wanna be the big dogs in the yard.

I think Putin sent that message with the polonium poisoning and the string of journalists killed while investigating Russian officials.Poland is a threat, the NATOization of former Soviet bloc countries is a threat, and control of oil prices and flow through the region is critical to their economy. He had to send a message that they arent going to be relegated to a 2d world country.BTW someone mentioned that BHO hadnt commented yet? Wrong. He threw out the standard Dem line of enlisting world and a Security Council resolution condemning the actions. Odd, the last time I checked Russia had veto power in the Security Council. Guess I missed something during those peaceful Clinton years.

[Gaffer 0]

If they carry this further, then the next president. whoever it is, will have a horrible time dealing with it.We can pretend all day that wars are a thing of the past ( Bush statement not withstanding )But getting into an active conflict with Russia could result in a rapid escalation that no one can control.That is unless the UN steps in and handles it, then nevermind of course.It will be funny to watch France and Germany though try to stay out of the way, all while profiting from the sale of weapons again.

Yeah i think this too, just something has been ticking over with russia here for the last 2-3 years and the russians are just like we dont care what you think ( if you dont know the story i will tell )Also as bg says germany and france first in there to sort out the peace and they just take the russians at face value when they know the russains dont give a shit.Russia controls a fair % off france and germanys Gas ( oil too ) so they know they wont give them any shitEDIT : what cop said too

[The Feelings Jar 0]

You know, I hope before this gets any further, we all take the time to try to understand what drove the Russians to feel the need to invade Georgia.

Russia is an animal backed into a corner at the moment. They are pissed about the encroachment of NATO onto it's borders and feel like the West is taking it's old influence away. Influence they have had over that region for centuries. Imagine if Mexico became part of the Warsaw Pact, in a sense, they feel threatened. They're also pissed over the West recognizing Kosovo who broke away from Russia's ally Serbia. Now the same logic that the West applied to Kosovo is not going on with South Ossetia because Georgia is the Wests friend, we are pretty hypocritical.When Georgia applied to be a member of NATO and was told that they can't right now but will eventually become a NATO state, the Russians saw the opportunity to send a message to their former Soviet States. They provoked Georgia to act on separatist rebels in South Ossetia and used that as an excuse to defend the Russian people who live there. Russia attacked and could have deposed of Georgia's leader if it wanted to, the Western Europe is too reliant on Russia for oil and natural gas to do anything and the United States is fighting two wars so we couldn't react if we wanted to.

[Gaffer 0]

Just watched teh bbc news and they were fiming at a checkpoint were the russians were not supposed to be. About halfway through the broadcast ( they were talking about the ceasefire ) 3 big conveys came past full of russian soliders who lol hid when they saw the cameras, The bbc man just went ok i think we better go. looks like there gonna take over georgia

[copernicus 0]

Just watched teh bbc news and they were fiming at a checkpoint were the russians were not supposed to be. About halfway through the broadcast ( they were talking about the ceasefire ) 3 big conveys came past full of russian soliders who lol hid when they saw the cameras, The bbc man just went ok i think we better go. looks like there gonna take over georgia

unfortunately BBC-A here is "doctor who" right now

[Gaffer 0]

unfortunately BBC-A here is "doctor who" right now

Good show made in cardiff and swansea :-) Wales's biggest export atm

[copernicus 0]

Good show made in cardiff and swansea :-) Wales's biggest export atm

from the 2 minutes I watched, its not something to brag about! could set special effects back 50 years, lol

[Gaffer 0]

from the 2 minutes I watched, its not something to brag about! could set special effects back 50 years, lol

Yeah but its makeing us millions, ( tourism for the win )

[Metternich 0]

Somehow I doubt he loves the Patriot Act, but I do...BECAUSE I value the American way of life. (Obama did vote for it, btw.)

I don't mind the Patriot Act at all.How many times now is it that your little predictions about what I think have been wrong? Do you think that your inability to predict my views undermines your whole argument that I'm an ideologue unwilling to listen to reason? It does. Seriously, pull your head out of your ass and either make an argument based on facts and plain reason or give up. Your attempts at ad hominem have been a pathetic failure.But at this point I honestly doubt your ability to do anything else. The only time you've responded to my arguments with anything of substance was when you supplied that totally disreputable, unsourced, Nkrumah website. When confronted with specific facts (as with the USSR's oil reserves in comparison to Afghanistan's) you've been unable to respond. Why should I give you any credit at all? You're only tactic is to attempt to undermine my credibility by making statements, almost invariably wrong ones, about my supposed views.

[Metternich 0]

FYPUntil of course it's you or your loved ones being secretly imprisoned. You must just LOVE the Patriot Act. Seriously dude, if you don't value the American way of life, then why are you here? Accident of birth?

If my family members were imprisoned by a truly good government (like China's) I hope that I would have the moral courage (regardless of their guilt or innocence) to support that move. But even if I didn't, I would still know that their imprisonment was right.

[Nimue1995 1]

If my family members were imprisoned by a truly good government (like China's) I hope that I would have the moral courage (regardless of their guilt or innocence) to support that move. But even if I didn't, I would still know that their imprisonment was right.

China's good government? What do you really know about China's good government? Have you ever actually lived under the Chinese rule? I know I haven't. But I also know from my reading that it's not a government I'd want to live under. And I certainly prefer the U.S. form of government. However, I think you are a liar if you say you'd support the move to imprison your family members if they were innocent.

[Dr_Shakes 0]

What I want to know is why haven't we bombed Moscow yet?We need to show them who the "real" superpower is.

[Balloon guy 158]

What I want to know is why haven't we bombed Moscow yet?We need to show them who the "real" superpower is.

You think they don't know?They know.

[KONGOS 0]

Posted this in General but thought it'd be relevant to this discussion.

[whatgreatis 0]

Russia is an animal backed into a corner at the moment. They are pissed about the encroachment of NATO onto it's borders and feel like the West is taking it's old influence away. Influence they have had over that region for centuries. Imagine if Mexico became part of the Warsaw Pact, in a sense, they feel threatened. They're also pissed over the West recognizing Kosovo who broke away from Russia's ally Serbia. Now the same logic that the West applied to Kosovo is not going on with South Ossetia because Georgia is the Wests friend, we are pretty hypocritical.When Georgia applied to be a member of NATO and was told that they can't right now but will eventually become a NATO state, the Russians saw the opportunity to send a message to their former Soviet States. They provoked Georgia to act on separatist rebels in South Ossetia and used that as an excuse to defend the Russian people who live there. Russia attacked and could have deposed of Georgia's leader if it wanted to, the Western Europe is too reliant on Russia for oil and natural gas to do anything and the United States is fighting two wars so we couldn't react if we wanted to.

QFT

[whatgreatis 0]

You think they don't know?They know.

Also QFTAfter the Soviet Union broke up, it was pretty clear who was the most powerful nation in the world. My old history teacher used to say that Eastern Europe is 100 years behind Western Europe, and I think thats still true today in some sense.