Value & Hand Protection

[craiger 0]

So I flop a flush, and it was obvious at least one of the villains had a big club. Did I protect my hand well enough? Should I have played it faster and tried to get heads up? Anyone play it different?? PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)MP (t1500)CO (t1490)Button/Hero (t1460)SB (t1650)BB (t1500)UTG (t1400)Preflop: dealt to hero Jc 5c 1 fold, MP calls t20, 1 fold, Hero calls t20, SB completes, BB checks.Flop: (t80) 2, 7, T(4 players)SB bets t60, BB folds, MP calls t60, Hero raises to t160, SB calls t100, MP calls t100.Turn: (t560) Q(3 players)SB checks, MP bets t80, Hero calls t80, SB raises to t280, MP calls t200, Hero raises to t1280, SB calls t1000, MP calls t1000.River: (t4400) 8(3 players)SB bets t190 (All-In), MP calls t40 (All-In).Final Pot: t4480

[foxxer 0]

fold PFas played:raise more on the flop, you are giving SB 3.6-1 odds, so he will call with a lot of hands - and thus giving MP 4.6-1.and definitly dont just call the turn, the Q is basically a dream card as now it is more likely that you get paid off if they have a Q and a club, or two pair...and in some cases, even top-pair. so raise it big and hope you can get your money in.

[TravisG 0]

fold pf.as played i bet way more on the flop, like 240 . they'll shut down on the turn so i'll bet about half pot (since they come along it will be about 1k), but as played it seems like all the money was getting in anyways.

[jmbreslin 0]

Just to reiterate...Fold PF.Raise more on flop.

[KoRnholio 2]

Also don't smooth call the turn against that little bet. You were lucky that the other villain raised behind you.

[MovingIn 0]

Make it 200 on the flop and jam the turn, and if they flopped a better flush, well... damn.I'm not sure why people have a problem with limping the button at the 10/20 level. We fold the flop if we miss and there's action in front. Are we that scared of getting counterfeited if we flop a flush?

[TravisG 0]

Make it 200 on the flop and jam the turn, and if they flopped a better flush, well... damn.I'm not sure why people have a problem with limping the button at the 10/20 level. We fold the flop if we miss and there's action in front. Are we that scared of getting counterfeited if we flop a flush?

you flop a flush how often? 1 in 52 times or something? with 20 chips invested you'd need to make 1k chips every time guaranteed if you flop a flush or i think about 400 (if you see all 5 cards for free) if you go for the flush over 5 cards, and those implied odds are just not available here. you cant count top pair / straight value in here so this hand would really just be about the flush.

[pokerinc 0]

nice explanation on not limping that from Travis.RAISE THE TURN. Very important to not let the bettor draw to his big club which is what it looks like there.

[wwmoon85 0]

Make it 200 on the flop and jam the turn, and if they flopped a better flush, well... damn.I'm not sure why people have a problem with limping the button at the 10/20 level. We fold the flop if we miss and there's action in front. Are we that scared of getting counterfeited if we flop a flush?

Fold pf because it's J5. Even though the blinds are 10/20, save your chips. If you advocate limping in from late position with basically any hand then you're going to hurt yourself in the long run. Most of the time those trash hands aren't going to hit and you'll just fold. And typically it's hard to steal against 4-5 other players when you're the last to act (people always suspect a steal).As for how it was played. I would agree with some of the previous posts. On the flop I would raise around 250 or so and jam on the turn. If the players are really bad then I would raise even more because donks will go all the way if they have a high club.

[HighwayStar 8]

This IS a fold preflop and I shut down on the turn. There are a lot of people in there so it's confusing as to what would happen but I probably don't reraise to 1280 when it comes back to me.You flop a flush draw11/50 * 10/49 * 1 *3!/2! = .... 13.5% of the time?You flop a flush11/50 *10/49 *9/48 *3! = 5.05% of the timeNot 100% sure about that

[foxxer 0]

This IS a fold preflop and I shut down on the turn. There are a lot of people in there so it's confusing as to what would happen but I probably don't reraise to 1280 when it comes back to me.

why? we have a J-high flush - which might not be a good idea to draw to, granted (at least not with the J on a 3-flush-board), and most agree that this is very much a fold preflop.BUT: now that we are in the hand, i think it is much more likely that we are up against a big club or a set or two pair or a smaller made flush than we are dead to a higher made flush. how often do we fold a made flush with something like 6-7s?in my book, this is never a fold, unless the other 2 players are huuuuuge nits and i have a big enough hand history with them to know that either one of them would only play in this spot if he had a made K- or A-high flush

[copernicus 0]

This IS a fold preflop and I shut down on the turn. There are a lot of people in there so it's confusing as to what would happen but I probably don't reraise to 1280 when it comes back to me.You flop a flush draw11/50 * 10/49 * 1 *3!/2! = .... 13.5% of the time?You flop a flush11/50 *10/49 *9/48 *3! = 5.05% of the timeNot 100% sure about that

Your factorial isnt needed in the 2nd one. combin(11,3)/combin(50,3)= .008418 ~ 1/120.In the first one the 1 isnt correct. Youre looking for exactly 2 cards so that term is 39/48. Also the 3rd term is correct but a little confusing, its really just =3, which is the 3 possible positions of the non flush card. Answer = 10.9%.I dont think the analyses above take into account 2 pair and trip flops, which are playable results, and no one is giving value to position. There are still a lot of flops that get checked around and you can pick up the pre-flop pot. Completing here cant be a bad play if youre decent post flop.Also, the a priori chances of another flopped flush are combin(8,2)/combin(47,2) = 2.6%, and the chances of a flopped flush all lower than the J are combin(5,2)/combin(47,2) or a little less than 1%, so the chances of a flopped flush that beats you is about 1.6%. (all of these are vs 1 player, so with 3 villains youve got about a 5% chance of being against a higher flopped flush).this doesnt take into account play subsequent to the flop and the info that gives us.

[MovingIn 0]

you flop a flush how often? 1 in 52 times or something? with 20 chips invested you'd need to make 1k chips every time guaranteed if you flop a flush or i think about 400 (if you see all 5 cards for free) if you go for the flush over 5 cards, and those implied odds are just not available here. you cant count top pair / straight value in here so this hand would really just be about the flush.

You're discounting having position and the appearance of other ragged flops that may hit us. I'm not saying this is always an auto-call, but you can't be afraid of limping in with position without a strong hand.

[TravisG 0]

You're discounting having position and the appearance of other ragged flops that may hit us. I'm not saying this is always an auto-call, but you can't be afraid of limping in with position without a strong hand.

yeah obviously with the right reads any two can be profitable, but i doubt this is the case at the 10/20 level (in a 6 handed donkament) when this seems to be the like one of the first few hands played (in a 6 handed donkament)

[MovingIn 0]

Look at it this way: what are the odds someone else has Kcxc or Acxc? If you flop a flush and the board doesn't pair, that's all that beats you. You could flop two pair, or an unlikely straight. But if you miss the flop, you c/f and all it costs you is 20 chips, very very little in the scheme of things. In 2-3 rounds, 20 chips will be nothing compared to the scale of the blinds.A lot of players online will overplay lesser hands if you hit a big one. Given a cheap opportunity to see a flop from the SB, the implied odds are there to limp with a lot of hands.