Too Much Self-restraint?

[Citizen Erased 0]

Okay, so here's a little dilemma I commonly get that I'm not too fond of.Basically, I'll play about 350 hands or some other small amount and be in profit, or robusto and then I'll take a break or something, which is perfectly normal. However, when I consider whether or not to continue I've recently started convincing myself not to play. I have an inherent fear of returning to play with this continuous feeling in me that if I lose money I'll be mad at myself (which I would be). Obviously, with this fear existing, I can't play a proper game so I pretty much can't play as I'm on a form of tilt. I know it sounds silly, but this usually means I play for less than 2 hours a day or so and then just spend spare time not playing when I could be. As such, I'm not getting in anywhere as many hands as I used to and find myself just not wanting to play due to this daunting prospect of what a session will hold...I understand that losing money is inevitable and the game is a gamble that needs to be faced. I also know that I shouldn't play on tilt. Basically, I'm just looking for some advice to amend this as it is just daft to have a fear of playing, really.Many thanks.

[Veener Schnitz 0]

better to play when your mind is focused than when you just aren't all that eager to put in a session. happens to me sometimes so i can relate. if i have any doubt on whether i can put 100% towards a session i wont bother.

[ben4808 0]

I think you need to play lower stakes so that the money will not be so much of a factor. Also, you can get your confidence up playing worse opponents and build your skills and BR back up to where you can play confortably where you are now.[x] imo

[HighwayStar 8]

Money online isn't real money. Treat it as such (Whilst keeping to BR management obv)

[Veener Schnitz 0]

I think you need to play lower stakes so that the money will not be so much of a factor. Also, you can get your confidence up playing worse opponents and build your skills and BR back up to where you can play confortably where you are now.[x] imo

[x] op already plays micro stakes

[AmScray 355]

1) How new are you to poker?2) Is the reason you get "mad at yourself" because you lost the money making poor decisions, or because your respect for money is just so great that losing any- even microstakes- has an impact on your happiness?3) What stakes do you play at and what games do you play? Beware: Playing poker even though your intellect is telling you that you "hate it" is a compulsive behavior. It's possible that your game skills aren't 'there yet' in order for you to be a winning player, but your urge to gamble is stronger than your aversion to loss.

[southsidepoker 0]

Are you quitting when you get up a little?

[fighter 4]

Dont think of it as multiple sessions but one long session and that every hand you play is worth x amount of dollars. The more hands you play naturally the more money you make.This statement comes with the assumption that you adhering to BR management, not playing -ev hours (Hungry Angry Lonly Tired or HALT ) and you're a winning player.Also If you are quitting while you are up a little and not quitting while you are down trying to get robusto then chancees are you are puting in more -EV hours.

[vervius 0]

i played earlier today, lost.i played again tonight and lost in my second hand. (pocket aces cracked)just gotta know your limits and make sure you don't go beyond, but at the same time remember why you like the game. as long as it's fun and responsible to do so, then play. if it's beating at your brain/temper/whatever, take a breather. no one is gonna rag on you for taking a break.

[king1305 0]

You're such a nit, finding reasons not to play.Sigh. NIT.Play more, make lots of rakeback, move up!

[Kaveros 0]

I think it is smart you are not playing during this time.When you are thinking you are going to go busto whenplaying the chances are you will not play your best.

[Mercury69 3]

I think a little time off between sessions, like a day or two, is a good thing. It's easy to get too wrapped up in the concept of winning and you end up putting pressure on yourself to catch up. Pretty soon, you catch up in the wrong way, find you've played too long and lost (maybe) too much. Everyone has different limits as to how long and how often they play. Find your confort zone and stay within it.Grasshopper...Oh, and rub one out once in a while. Self-restraint is for the birds.

[DelftDragons 0]

Its my experience that when in doubt if you should play, it's best not to play.When I start playing andf not really wanting to, I tend to take more risks which can pay-off but ussually don't.

[Poker Addict 0]

Dont think of it as multiple sessions but one long session and that every hand you play is worth x amount of dollars. The more hands you play naturally the more money you make.

This^^ It sounds like you view them as individual sessions and you want as many winning sessions as possible. You really need to view it as one long session and get to the point where you can identify your win rate so you know how much you make per hand (or 100 hands).

I think a little time off between sessions, like a day or two, is a good thing. It's easy to get too wrapped up in the concept of winning and you end up putting pressure on yourself to catch up. Pretty soon, you catch up in the wrong way, find you've played too long and lost (maybe) too much. Everyone has different limits as to how long and how often they play. Find your confort zone and stay within it.Grasshopper...Oh, and rub one out once in a while. Self-restraint is for the birds.

What you really should be doing with that time if you don't really feel like playing but you are still thinking about poker is downloading a couple of Cardrunners videos and thinking about the game.

[navybuttons 15]

Dont think of it as multiple sessions but one long session and that every hand you play is worth x amount of dollars. The more hands you play naturally the more money you make.

this is a pretty good way to think about it.

I have an inherent fear of returning to play with this continuous feeling in me that if I lose money I'll be mad at myself (which I would be).

but THIS is where the real problem is. as humans we are raised with the fear of failure. in every game we played growing up there was a "loser" who didn't want to be one. we were taught that "winning" was what we should strive for. but this is wrong, as it attaches a negative label to a meaningless act. i picture a 12 year olds football game where a kid who played his heart out feels worse after the game because his team lost than a kid who played half-assed but feels good because his team won. why would you be mad at yourself if you lost? if it's because you don't want to "lose," then you need to change your perception about "winning" and "losing." if the idea of losing money is too much for you, then you need to change your perception about money to be a more complete player. i think the best way to get over the fear of money loss is to lay in bed at night and think deeply about what money is.literally: money is paper with neat designs and sometimes portraits printed on it. figuratively: money is a certain number that is insured by a goverment with which we can procure goods and services. $100 to a billionare is not $100 to a homeless woman. there is no natural law saying how much money should be worth to you. i'm not saying you shouldn't have a respect for money, but you should realize that $200 in your bankroll is no longer $200 in your pocket. once it's in your bankroll it should be the $200 to the millionare, that is, that it no longer has any real value to you. it becomes an investment by which to make more money and nothing more. it becomes just a number or an abstract idea of a number.you won't read anything that's immediately going to help you conquer this fear. you have to work at it and your problem is only going to be overcome if you think long and hard about it, and try to rationalize it away. believe me, it doesn't have to be something you have to turn your noise-filter up against. face the problem head on.goodluck.

[qyayqi 11]

the man in the pea coat is wise behind his ears.

[Sheiky 0]

Navybuttons just owned this thread imoRead this as well - http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.p...1&PHPSESSIDI used to have the exact same feeling as you, what helped me get over it is thinking about the game in terms of rakeback earned, not money won and lost at the tables. So like, if I was up a buy in by 2 o clock and stopped for lunch, I'd comeback thinking 'I should play some hands to earn some rakeback'. Given that rakeback is a continous entity, you're always winning!Also, I strongly advise against playing $10NL at FT, the rake is insanely high and takes away 7.8BB/100 of your winrate as an average estimate(A 5/10 player loses .9BB/100 hands dues to rake). Even with rakeback it's not worth it imo.

[nutzbuster 7]

this is a pretty good way to think about it.but THIS is where the real problem is. as humans we are raised with the fear of failure. in every game we played growing up there was a "loser" who didn't want to be one. we were taught that "winning" was what we should strive for. but this is wrong, as it attaches a negative label to a meaningless act. i picture a 12 year olds football game where a kid who played his heart out feels worse after the game because his team lost than a kid who played half-assed but feels good because his team won. why would you be mad at yourself if you lost? if it's because you don't want to "lose," then you need to change your perception about "winning" and "losing." if the idea of losing money is too much for you, then you need to change your perception about money to be a more complete player. i think the best way to get over the fear of money loss is to lay in bed at night and think deeply about what money is.literally: money is paper with neat designs and sometimes portraits printed on it. figuratively: money is a certain number that is insured by a goverment with which we can procure goods and services. $100 to a billionare is not $100 to a homeless woman. there is no natural law saying how much money should be worth to you. i'm not saying you shouldn't have a respect for money, but you should realize that $200 in your bankroll is no longer $200 in your pocket. once it's in your bankroll it should be the $200 to the millionare, that is, that it no longer has any real value to you. it becomes an investment by which to make more money and nothing more. it becomes just a number or an abstract idea of a number.you won't read anything that's immediately going to help you conquer this fear. you have to work at it and your problem is only going to be overcome if you think long and hard about it, and try to rationalize it away. believe me, it doesn't have to be something you have to turn your noise-filter up against. face the problem head on.goodluck.

THIS is GOLD.Bob, pin this. Seriously.

[Kaveros 0]

Great post navybuttons. You put into words what needed to be said. great respect for that post man

[Giggidy 0]

You're such a nit, finding reasons not to play.Sigh. NIT.Play more, make lots of rakeback, move up!

[Vtlaxer09 4]

like king said... you cant be scared to lose. If you dont think you have an edge... dont play poker. Getting rakeback for putting in a ton of hands should be a little extra motivation to play more. Like someone else said, think of it as one long session.

[navybuttons 15]

Read this as well - http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.p...1&PHPSESSID

it's crazy how far ahead of everyone else he was in this regard at the time. he was off with regards to play (like in that second pair example), but in the lhe challenge thread last week i made a post about how some people just understood things faster than others, and he was one of the people i was speaking of.i didn't realize when i was writing my post how much i'd stolen from his. that's a testament to how much you can change your thinking, where you can take someone else's thoughts that are better than yours and make them your own.

[Kaveros 0]

ty for the link to that amazing thread, and ty for your post again navybuttons

[navybuttons 15]

ty for your post again navybuttons

welcome.

[Gallo 1]

this is a pretty good way to think about it.but THIS is where the real problem is. as humans we are raised with the fear of failure. in every game we played growing up there was a "loser" who didn't want to be one. we were taught that "winning" was what we should strive for. but this is wrong, as it attaches a negative label to a meaningless act. i picture a 12 year olds football game where a kid who played his heart out feels worse after the game because his team lost than a kid who played half-assed but feels good because his team won. why would you be mad at yourself if you lost? if it's because you don't want to "lose," then you need to change your perception about "winning" and "losing." if the idea of losing money is too much for you, then you need to change your perception about money to be a more complete player. i think the best way to get over the fear of money loss is to lay in bed at night and think deeply about what money is.literally: money is paper with neat designs and sometimes portraits printed on it. figuratively: money is a certain number that is insured by a goverment with which we can procure goods and services. $100 to a billionare is not $100 to a homeless woman. there is no natural law saying how much money should be worth to you. i'm not saying you shouldn't have a respect for money, but you should realize that $200 in your bankroll is no longer $200 in your pocket. once it's in your bankroll it should be the $200 to the millionare, that is, that it no longer has any real value to you. it becomes an investment by which to make more money and nothing more. it becomes just a number or an abstract idea of a number.you won't read anything that's immediately going to help you conquer this fear. you have to work at it and your problem is only going to be overcome if you think long and hard about it, and try to rationalize it away. believe me, it doesn't have to be something you have to turn your noise-filter up against. face the problem head on.goodluck.

And a little alcohol couldn't hurt either.