Was This A Smart Bluff?

[wakiki 0]

The situation:Everyone had been playing pretty tight the whole time and the blinds were getting big relative to the stacks. Everyone had around 1500 in chips. I said to myself, when the big blind went up to 100 ,that I had to step up the aggression if I wanted to win this thing. For me, when the BB reaches 100, that's when the tournament gets to the aggressive late game stage, and we still had 7 players!Preflop: Hero is BB with J, 7. 3 folds, CO raises to t300, 1 fold, SB calls t250, Hero calls t200.Flop: (t900) 4, 9, 9(3 players)SB checks, Hero bets t1315 (All-In)So here's my thinking:This pot is huge, and probably didn't hit anyone. My all-in bet here is about 1.5 times the pot. This CO player had been stealing blinds so he could have anything. The board is paired, no straight or flush draws to worry about. If I win this pot, it will put me near the top of the heap (2nd place). If someone has a 9, I'm toast, but that isn't likely. If someone has two fours, then I'm toast, but that also isn't likely. I doubt anyone would call with anything worse than that. I decided to basically take a gamble and hope that no one had those hands, despite the fact that I'm not pot-committed.So am I being smartly aggressive, or am I throwing my chips around like a lunatic?

[HighwayStar 8]

Would help to know all the stack sizes...But.....I'd say this was horrible. Fold or shove preflop, I probably fold unless they're raising every pot. It's a decent spot for a shove given you have fold equity vs an active raiser and a pot worth taking. I'd just rather do this with a hand that has a lot of bink equity over big hands, J7o sucks for that.On the flop, well it's as good a flop as any to shove. I'd imagine any pocket pair/9 comes along though, maybe AK/Q too. I just don't get myself in these spots so I can't say

[ABigMotivation 0]

Fold or try a squeeze preflop. This seems like the type of bluff to where your just guessing at what your opponents may have. Their range could be pretty strong if you said everyone is playing tight. If he folded you just got lucky they didnt have anything like pocket pairs. It might be acceptable against only one opponent that you have a read on, but im not a fan of blindly shipping my whole stack against two opponents.

[wakiki 0]

Would help to know all the stack sizes...But.....I'd say this was horrible. Fold or shove preflop, I probably fold unless they're raising every pot. It's a decent spot for a shove given you have fold equity vs an active raiser and a pot worth taking. I'd just rather do this with a hand that has a lot of bink equity over big hands, J7o sucks for that.On the flop, well it's as good a flop as any to shove. I'd imagine any pocket pair/9 comes along though, maybe AK/Q too. I just don't get myself in these spots so I can't say

The CO had a slightly bigger chip stack than me (I had 1300 in front of him at this point, he had 1700) while the SB had a smaller one. Another important thing to note is that although the CO had been stealing blinds, he was tight otherwise.As I suspected, I was just throwing my chips around like a lunatic. Well, I'm just starting this poker thing.Basically, I was just playing based off of the texture of the flop. I figure that people either missed that flop completely or hit it hard, and I was simply gambling on them not hitting it hard. If they don't, I almost double up, and if they do, then I'm a goner.You would really call an all-in on a flop like that with A/K against a tight player? Gutsy move, although you'd be right in this situation with my silly J7o.If I were to try and steal this pre-flop, are you guys recommending that I go all in with this hand PF? I don't really see how I could steal it PF without going all-in.

[MovingIn 0]

That flop either hits someone hard or misses badly. That said, you're so short that you shouldn't be trying a bluff like this, because with a 3 way pot, the short stacks involved, and that flop... you're probably getting called, and you're probably getting called by a better hand, because others in the hand know that flop usually doesn't hit people, and that a short stack in your position would try a bluff shove here with a wide range. If you play any hand at all with that stack, it's really got to be all-in preflop unless it's AA, KK or something similar that usually holds up postflop, and you want to get more chips in the pot.

[craiger 0]

I agree that this flop probably didn't hit anyone.....but didn't you say that everyone had been playing tight? With his preflop raise, you can probably put him on a big ace or pair...and in my experience many players will call this type of bluff.

[craiger 0]

I figure that people either missed that flop completely or hit it hard, and I was simply gambling on them not hitting it hard. If they don't, I almost double up, and if they do, then I'm a goner.

Also...what you said here is true, but it is very 1st level type thinking. Instead of just considering what hand other players may have, you also need to consider what other players may put YOU on...and in this case, you should know that a thinking player will know that you probably didn't hit the flop either...and call you light.

[wakiki 0]

Also...what you said here is true, but it is very 1st level type thinking. Instead of just considering what hand other players may have, you also need to consider what other players may put YOU on...and in this case, you should know that a thinking player will know that you probably didn't hit the flop either...and call you light.

That's an excellent point, but I think that you are way overestimating the people in a $1.20 SnG. (Oops, I don't think I mentioned that 'til now. That's important) When I made the bet, I was taking my table image (tight), the other players' tendancies (tight), and the texture of the flop into account. I knew I had no read on my opponents though, so that aspect (my opponent's cards) was a gamble.I'll go ahead and reveal what happened:The CO hesitates for a really long time. The longer he goes into the tank, the more confident I become that he missed and will probably fold. After digging through like half of his timebank, he finally calls and the SB folds. He turns up A9! I'm thinking "what the...? That should have been an insta-call!" I guess he was worried that I had the full house.I think you guys are correct that that would be a stupid bluff in a higher stakes tournament....but I'm fairly sure that my read on my opponents (that they would fold without hitting that flop) was correct for this game. I basically said to myself: "These guys have no guts. If they didn't hit that flop, they'll fold to this." The guy almost folded three 9's anyway! However, though my read had been correct, I wish I hadn't made the gamble. Gambling like that was unnecessary since I wasn't pot committed. That's my conclusion so far.

[Tehtoe 3]

That's an excellent point, but I think that you are way overestimating the people in a $1.20 SnG. (Oops, I don't think I mentioned that 'til now. That's important) When I made the bet, I was taking my table image (tight), the other players' tendancies (tight), and the texture of the flop into account. I knew I had no read on my opponents though, so that aspect (my opponent's cards) was a gamble.I'll go ahead and reveal what happened:The CO hesitates for a really long time. The longer he goes into the tank, the more confident I become that he missed and will probably fold. After digging through like half of his timebank, he finally calls and the SB folds. He turns up A9! I'm thinking "what the...? That should have been an insta-call!" I guess he was worried that I had the full house.I think you guys are correct that that would be a stupid bluff in a higher stakes tournament....but I'm fairly sure that my read on my opponents (that they would fold without hitting that flop) was correct for this game. I basically said to myself: "These guys have no guts. If they didn't hit that flop, they'll fold to this." The guy almost folded three 9's anyway! However, though my read had been correct, I wish I hadn't made the gamble. Gambling like that was unnecessary since I wasn't pot committed. That's my conclusion so far.

Your logic is completely off, and you just got slowrolled.

[wakiki 0]

That makes more sense. I was completely bewildered that he took so long.

[copernicus 0]

Its actually a better bluff in a higher buyin tourney. Here youre going to get looked up by all kinds of mediocre hands. In a higher buying youre going to get credit for trips, or an overpair.

[REvans84 0]

I agree with Copernicus.That would look like an overpair bet to me or 88.

[potatoman 0]

Micro stakes players are exploitable, not because they fold too much. It's that they call too much generally. They call because they hate to get bluffed/ love to pick off bluffs and because they're recreational players who think , well, it's only a buck.At the higher limits, bluffing, occasionally, is effective, because players respect your solid game and they're much more interested in cashing than your average $1.20 player.I don't like this play for several reasons but largely because there are just so many flops that are going to be hard to pull the trigger on. If I was ever going to make this type of play, I'd probably start with a hand like JQs or KQs. So even if my bluff is called, I may still have some outs to suck out with.If you're new to poker, keep posting questions here and don't take anything said personally. Your instinct to get aggressive at the 100 blind level is correct. But you want to get aggressive by shoving allin FIRST, with hands that hold up ok when called. You want to start the push/fold somewhere around 7-10 BB's. As someone mentioned, restealing preflop (shoving to the raise) is a better play, IMO. Again though, I'd like to make that play with something a bit stronger than what you had. Google sng strategy/tools sometime and learn as much as you can. GL.

[jmbreslin 0]

You don't need to make this kind of crazy play to beat the competition at $1.20. Just focus on patient, ABC poker and you'll do just fine. Fancy play syndrome will kill you at these stakes.

[Poker Addict 0]

Micro stakes players are exploitable, not because they fold too much. It's that they call too much generally. They call because they hate to get bluffed/ love to pick off bluffs and because they're recreational players who think , well, it's only a buck.

QFTIt's funny how players that don't really get it yet think about low limit players. You can actually play LESS poker against them because they are not thinking about what you have, your image, you at all. They are playing their cards and can not fold. The way to take them is to call their bluffs with strong hands and to get value out of them when you have it. This is kind of what Farha was trying to say during the 03 WSOP FT.And they really do hate to be bluffed. It's like the worst thing in the world that can happen to them.

[pokerinc 0]

also, betting 700 there would look stronger than the shovel to most players.

[Poker Addict 0]

also, betting 700 there would look stronger than the shovel to most players.

This doesn't matter. No pp, 4x or decent ace is laying down to this bet in a low limit sng. Betting that flop is bad and calling preflop is even worse. Committing such a large portion of your stack with an awful hand will not get you itm in these tournys. It is just bad.

[Mercury69 3]

While it's not usually something I would do, I like the move. You might get called down by an AK and you will certainly get called down by an overpair, but the preflop betting generally indicates your opponents don't have those hands. Most smart players will fold, but that doesn't preclude you being called by some dumbass or someone with a made hand. Also, someone may have an underpair to the board and call you down, thinking you are shoving with overs.Edit: As someone said...Fold preflop

[sennin 0]

You still had plenty of chips, fold pre, no need to bluff here(esp when you're pretty much drawing dead if called). The only time I ever do it is in small pots where I am just making a small steal(usually bvb)

[wakiki 0]

Thanks for all of your responses guys.I generally do simply play ABC poker at these stakes. Normally I would just fold that hand PF, but I just decided to try a goofy experiment, since everyone at this table seemed so timid.Experiment failed, but eh, I'm still glad I gave it a shot. I think it will be a stronger move when I'm a big stack, and can afford to bet a smaller amount to steal it. When that situation come up, I might try it.

[SavageHenry 0]

squeezing pre-flop with a shove is an option. i'm not sure its a great option since straight forward ABC poker crushes micro stakes. the only time i try the "call with nothing to outplay my opponent on the flop" is heads up in position. However this type of fancy play is best used against players who understand that people generally don't call with nothing. the best goofy experiment to try is covering your hole cards and not looking at them the entire game and seeing if you can cash. i like to call it Helen Kellering/Good against remotes (obscure star wars reference) or perhaps in more recent poker lore the "annette"... It's pretty much the right of passage for online tournament players