brvheart 1,753 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I am torn on this one on a personal level but this is pretty black and white biblically. Don't kill. Now, if you killed yourself... you killed. What if that last day of suffering was the last step you needed to prepare your heart and soul for heaven? What if don't kill actually means don't kill? That could be an issue at judgement.Can you provide a NT verse that is black and white on this subject?EDIT: I didn't mean this as a 'challenge'... but more that I am simply curious. Link to post Share on other sites
Sal Paradise 57 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Can you provide a NT verse and is black and white on this subject?OHHHH FACE.and did you read my post about the translation of "thou shalt not kill"? I was wondering if anybody here who had studied the bible (especially the OT I guess) has heard of that translation discrepancy. seems to me it kind of HAS to be the "thou shalt not murder" thing since, hell, we kill a whole lot of people on a regular basis. Link to post Share on other sites
Randy Reed 0 Posted July 22, 2008 Author Share Posted July 22, 2008 Here is the thing, and this is from a purely christian standpoint. My life is not supposed to be on my terms. If I ain't dead yet, I am not supposed to be. My life still has a reason, whatever it is. I have attended a deathbed ceremony- I say that because I don't know what else to call it. We sat there and watched this lady we knew for years, pass on. She had been riddled with cancer for years. We sang songs, took turns talking to her, stayed with her as she passed on. I learned alot those days. Probably more than if I had just volunteered to pull a plug. I know for me, that experience was invaluable in it's own way. That's the thing- what is Gods plan? Oftentimes, we don't know. We just have to go with it. Painful, joyful, dark, come what may. I don't see anything in the New Testament that would point to anything else. That being said, no possible way I could hold everyone to this standard, how you want to go out is up to you.I just don't get the whole predetermination idea. The thought that God has this all planned out and knows every step. I think we have freewill to make decisions.As for the government entering into it I think it's more of a medical issue. We have living wills already where people refuse care to let themselves die in the event of brain damage and no recessition agreements.I think this would just be an extension of it. It's my body and if I don't want to live in excrutiating pain for the short time left and don't want my loved ones to suffer watching it. I want to be able to make that decision or at least give power of attorney to a Dr or someone to carry out my wishes.I realize that there is always the last second cure or misdiagnosis that could happen but I believe we could limit it to certain illnesses etc., that most would agree about to limit the chance of the former happening.I'm also somewhat surprised at the religous view here. I thought I would get pounded on but didn't. Interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,753 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 and did you read my post about the translation of "thou shalt not kill"? I was wondering if anybody here who had studied the bible (especially the OT I guess) has heard of that translation discrepancy. seems to me it kind of HAS to be the "thou shalt not murder" thing since, hell, we kill a whole lot of people on a regular basis.I've never looked into it, but I'll try to do so for the sake of discussion. I've always assumed that it meant murder, since God was constantly commanding people to kill others. That wouldn't make much sense. Link to post Share on other sites
HollywoodAFD 0 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 fypGet your labels right noob ShakeZuma wouldn't have made this mistakeI like Sal more than Shaka.... even though... well... you know. Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Very cool... I like his thinking. Is he still secretly assisting people?I guess if he were really secret ... you wouldnt know.But anyhoooo... I hope he isI doubt he is doing it anymore because he just announced he is running for the 9th District in Michigan. Though radio stations were having contests on coming up with good slogans for his campaign. My favorite: All it takes is one vote and all your problems will go away.Or Give me Liberty or give me...wait, nevermind. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I've never looked into it, but I'll try to do so for the sake of discussion. I've always assumed that it meant murder, since God was constantly commanding people to kill others. That wouldn't make much sense. Old Testament, sure. In the New we see Christ telling Peter to put up his sword. We see Christians being beheaded, and going all the way to there death as God see fit. I will try and find a black and white on it for you, though. Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Old Testament, sure. In the New we see Christ telling Peter to put up his sword. We see Christians being beheaded, and going all the way to there death as God see fit. I will try and find a black and white on it for you, though.RACIST! Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 RACIST! For sure, niggers got to die. That's Bible truth. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I agree with this. It's a tricky subject.Which is doing more harm: Keeping a person barely alive against his will in constant excruciating pain or allowing them to end his life peacefully on his own terms?Pretty sure that a person can refuse to be kept on a machine, as can his spouse etc, if they determine that there will be no change as it is.But still, do we want Doctors with the ability to kill you? They already think they are god, why add to their sociopathic behaviours? Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 This is where I get frustrated to the point where I don't think there is any point in discussing this. Frustrated is probably the wrong word but I will stick with it right now. Devout Christians will say no and everyone else pretty much says yes. No one is going to sway the other.Reading Lois' post about how God makes the choice and if you are alive, pain or not, you have a purpose, well I get where he is coming from but for me, I don't believe that so assisted suicide would be a option for me if it ever came down to it. The issue then turns into who gets to tell who what to do in life. For me, if someone is in pain and the pain cannot be treated and they are terminal, I would not feel I have the right to tell that person what to do. If they believe in what Lois said and decided not to do it, then fine, their personal life choice based on their own beliefs and morals. But if they didn't believe what Lois said then I have no issue with them doing what they feel is necessary. In my opinion it is their life. But I maybe making a poor assumption with this but I suspect BG and lois might disagree with me and say that it is not their life but Gods life and he calls the shots. I just can't agree with that. This post sucks.Most devout Christians are pretty diverse on a lot of subjects like this. But life is sacred, that's a fundemental belief in all western countries.I bet you would find when the subject is terminal, only going to live in pain etc..the consensus of let him die or he can't kill himself is pretty much consistant with the rest of the US population. Shoot in my case I've told my wife if I get really sick, like all our money and then some and there's still only 20% chance I will live, then I will refuse treatment and go fishing till I die. also I will be smoking a lot of cigars, no way I would destroy my family's financial security for anything less than a 45% chance to live. Maybe 40% if the doctor is a cute chick. Otherwise it's time to rent that airplane, and max out the insurance. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Pretty sure that a person can refuse to be kept on a machine, as can his spouse etc, if they determine that there will be no change as it is.But still, do we want Doctors with the ability to kill you? They already think they are god, why add to their sociopathic behaviours? Both valid points. The argument over this and abortion never really comes down to more than "but I want to, damnit, it's my life." Maybe for you, but for a christian, not so much so. It's not your life, you belong to God now. Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Pretty sure that a person can refuse to be kept on a machine, as can his spouse etc, if they determine that there will be no change as it is.Doing nothing while a person suffers amounts to the same thing. The road to hell is paved with indifference. I forget who said that, and I'm pretty sure it was about the holocaust, but you get the idea.But still, do we want Doctors with the ability to kill you? They already think they are god, why add to their sociopathic behaviours?I get really annoyed at general statements like this about doctors. It's really sad that in today's society a lot of people have no respect for doctors. Apparently now it's par for the course to assume that all doctors are arrogant pricks with god complexes who deserve to be sued whenever possible. I'm sure some are like that, but most are good people (just like in every other profession). Both valid points. The argument over this and abortion never really comes down to more than "but I want to, damnit, it's my life." Maybe for you, but for a christian, not so much so. It's not your life, you belong to God now.Fine, as long as you understand that the "for a christian" argument should have no effect on legislation. Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I get really annoyed at general statements like this about doctors. It's really sad that in today's society a lot of people have no respect for doctors. Apparently now it's par for the course to assume that all doctors are arrogant pricks with god complexes who deserve to be sued whenever possible. I'm sure some are like that, but most are good people (just like in every other profession).pfft, vets are so arrogant. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,753 Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Old Testament, sure. In the New we see Christ telling Peter to put up his sword. We see Christians being beheaded, and going all the way to there death as God see fit. I will try and find a black and white on it for you, though.I figured it was obvious I was talking about the OT, but that's for clarifying my post. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I get really annoyed at general statements like this about doctors. It's really sad that in today's society a lot of people have no respect for doctors. Apparently now it's par for the course to assume that all doctors are arrogant pricks with god complexes who deserve to be sued whenever possible. I'm sure some are like that, but most are good people (just like in every other profession).I agree, 95% of them give the rest of the them a bad name.What do you care?It's not like you're a doctor or anything Link to post Share on other sites
Sal Paradise 57 Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 I agree, 95% of them give the rest of the them a bad name.What do you care?It's not like you're a doctor or anythinghahahahahahaha Link to post Share on other sites
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