dna4ever 2 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Sup gang. I havent played online poker really for about 2 years other then some random occassional negreanu open or something like that, but I'm at a point where I need to come up with about $3000 in the next few months and am going to attempt to do so by playing online poker.I realize it is not quite the same group as FCP'ers as before when I did my challenge in 2005/2006 ish time when I tried to turn $50 into $10,000 playing limit poker within 12 months and was able to complete that goal, but with a lot of help of rakeback, signup bonuses, etc.This goal is a bit different in I plan on depositing only $600 and starting at $2/$4 ($150bb) and I have devised a 'workplan' to reach $6000 within 4 months at which point I will withdraw the $3000 I need and have $3000 left online to play $5/$10 moving forward with a proper 300bb bankroll.As I did with my $50 to $10K challenge I plan on blogging my process and it was pretty helpful to have people supporting and commenting on hands or whatever so I opened that same blog back up again at http://dnapoker.blogspot.com/I only plan on playing 15 hours per week, but again it has been about 2 years since I have played limit online. I used to be able to beat the game at levels from $1/$2 up to $50/$100 at a minimum of 2BB/100 so am setting my goal low (1 to 1.5bb/100) since I'm sure I have some rust and kinks to work out.Has the level of online LIMIT play changed that much in the last two years and is Pokerstars the best place to perform this challenge? Rakeback would be nice but unfortunately I already have accounts just about everywhere so can't qualify for that. Is Fulltilt any better for ring games then Pokerstars? I will only be playing full table games and most of the time multi tabling up to 4 tables.Anyone noticed better times of the day to play? I would probably mainly be playing weekdays 8 - 11 EST ish and whenever on the weekends, but limiting myself to 3 hour sessions per day.I'm hoping to get started on this tomorrow and be done with my goal by the end of November.I pretty much outlined my entire 'plan' and 'rules' on my blog so I guess we'll just have to see how it works out. I'm a bit nervous about starting with just 150bb as I know my ROR is going to be much higher then the usual 300bb I'm accustomed to, but this is a financial goal, not a hobby goal so with my stop loss rules I'm hoping I can avoid a ridiculous bad run or variance streak.Any thoughts of feedback on how limit is rolling these days or may have changed since my 'hayday' would be awesome. Link to post Share on other sites
Metternich 0 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 This is something I'd really like to pay attention to, I'm curious as to just how possible it is for a good player to grind up quickly.I wasn't around in 2004/2005, but from what I hear it sounds like all Hold'Em games have gotten a lot tougher since then, people now are just more familiar with some strategies. But I want to know what you think about that after playing for a few weeks Link to post Share on other sites
Darth Maple 0 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I really hope you update this often, I will be very interested in this. Good luck, oh and one question? Do you have a non poker playing part time job to fund this? Link to post Share on other sites
ChuckP 0 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I like FullTilt alot better than PokerStars. PokerStars to me seems to be outdated compared to FullTilt. The program it runs on looks to be from the 80's and it just annoys me. I play on FullTilt and do very well playing limit hold 'em and PLO. The players are garbage most of the time and at least half of every table I sit on are dead money. I would suggest starting on FullTilt. You can always withdraw it and deposit in PokerStars. Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 This is something I'd really like to pay attention to, I'm curious as to just how possible it is for a good player to grind up quickly.I wasn't around in 2004/2005, but from what I hear it sounds like all Hold'Em games have gotten a lot tougher since then, people now are just more familiar with some strategies. But I want to know what you think about that after playing for a few weeksThis is alot of my concern as far as overall improvement of play. Honestly I'm not AS worried about it at the 2/4 or even 3/6 levels, but 5/10 an up I think will become more challenging. I'm gonna start this tonight so we will see.I really hope you update this often, I will be very interested in this. Good luck, oh and one question? Do you have a non poker playing part time job to fund this?Yes I have a full time job that I have been at for 10 years, wife and 2 kids thing so this is not something that is going to break me if it doesnt work, but if I can build a bankroll and withdraw the $3000 versus adding to a credit card or whatever then this is a very strong step. This is the main reason I am only doing 15 hours a week (five 3 hour sessions is the goal with possibly two of those sessions being on Saturday).I like FullTilt alot better than PokerStars. PokerStars to me seems to be outdated compared to FullTilt. The program it runs on looks to be from the 80's and it just annoys me. I play on FullTilt and do very well playing limit hold 'em and PLO. The players are garbage most of the time and at least half of every table I sit on are dead money. I would suggest starting on FullTilt. You can always withdraw it and deposit in PokerStars.After looking at Pokerstars VIP club I am really liking what I see. I should be platinum by the end of July and the incentives are very strong, from what I am looking at it is very similiar to a 27% rakeback once at that level. I believe I am going to start on Pokerstars and if I dont like the play then can always switch to Fulltilt. It is much easier from what I have seen to get money in and out of Pokerstars then at Fulltilt as well. I love the Pokerstars Moneygram thing.Another thing I've noticed is pokerstars calculators use an average of 80 limit hands per table per hour. This is a great thing since I used 60 limit hands per table per hour in my originally calculation. This will either A) allow me finish my goal quicker or B) allow me to see a lower BB/100 rate and still finish my goal on time.I plan on putting in my first session tonight around 8 - 11 pm EST, username dna4everMy biggest concern again is having a bad run from the get go. One of the biggest limit lessons I learned several years ago is multi tabling in no way increases your likelihood to go broke, it simply allows you to see more hands. Playing 4 tables for 1 hour is technically no different to your bankroll then playing 4 hours at 1 table. Granted you have more of your BR in play at any given time and you might make a slightly less BB/100 due to not being able to focus as much on the tendencies of individual players, but overall I feel it is +EV in limit. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I would imagine that low stakes limit hold em has not gone the 'Cardrunners revolution' that 6-max NL has over the past 4-5 years so i'd imagine you'd still be the decent winner you were before at those games.At 5/10 and up though, I expect the games will be a lot tougher than those you experienced previously Link to post Share on other sites
DinkDonk 1 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I've played every level between .5/1 and 30/60 on Stars for about 2 1/2 years now and I've got to say that once you reach 10/20 or so the games will get insanely aggressive/tough and 2 BB/100 will be awfully tough to get back to. They are certainly beatable but they may take a few adjustments to your game. Pokerstars VIP program is really very good like you said. LHE will get you to the higher levels very quickly especially since you'll be multitabling. I have also heard great things about the games and VIP program on Absolute, not to mention the possibility of rakeback, so you may want to look there.Good luck and I hope to see you in my games soon enough. Link to post Share on other sites
bdc30 0 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I have also heard great things about the games and VIP program on AbsoluteGames yes, VIP program NOOOOO. They've just recently changed it. I'm sure Zach will be along to chime in tonight.Good luck DNA, I'll certainly be following along/rooting for you. Link to post Share on other sites
wsox8 10 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I watched a few hands at Pythia. It's been disgusting.. AA<Q6 on the river, TT<JJ, QQ<AK on the riverDo you ever play shorthanded or 6max tables? Good luck on your goal. Let me know if you notice a difference in play with PS and FT. I felt like people on PS played tighter 1/2 and 2/4, but that was at the 6 max tables. Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 Games yes, VIP program NOOOOO. They've just recently changed it. I'm sure Zach will be along to chime in tonight.Good luck DNA, I'll certainly be following along/rooting for you.ThanksI watched a few hands at Pythia. It's been disgusting.. AA<Q6 on the river, TT<JJ, QQ<AK on the riverDo you ever play shorthanded or 6max tables? Good luck on your goal. Let me know if you notice a difference in play with PS and FT. I felt like people on PS played tighter 1/2 and 2/4, but that was at the 6 max tables.I sometimes play SH 6 max, but again havent in awhile.And you are right, this has been disgusting, played 90 minute session and just implemented my first stop loss rule of -30bb I don't think I played bad, but again, who knows. I'm gonna post a few hands (7 to be exact), give my personal analysis of how I think I played it then for those that want to give feedback that would be awesome. Apparently due to the number of suit images I can only post one hand at a time .....(1)PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, A. Hero calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.Flop: (11.50 SB) 4, 4, J(5 players)SB bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, Button folds, SB folds.Turn: (8.25 BB) 3(2 players)Hero bets, MP1 calls.River: (10.25 BB) K(2 players)Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.Final Pot: 12.25 BBResults in white below: Hero has Jh Ac (two pair, jacks and fours). MP1 has 8d Kd (two pair, kings and fours). Outcome: MP1 wins 12.25 BB. I dont really see any errors here, typical guy chasing flush draw and hits an over? Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 (2)PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 2, A. 4 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 2 folds, BB checks.Flop: (3.50 SB) 3, 2, A(3 players)BB bets, Hero calls, CO folds.Turn: (2.75 BB) 4(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.River: (4.75 BB) 6(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.Final Pot: 8.75 BBResults in white below: BB has 5s 3s (straight, six high). Hero has 2d Ad (two pair, aces and twos). Outcome: BB wins 8.75 BB. I just flat out played this terrible. No excuses. Shouldnt have played A2 suited to begin with and if I am going to play it I sure as crap shouldnt open limp with it. Should have check raised the flop with BB in the hand. Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 (3)PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, J. Hero raises, 3 folds, CO calls, 3 folds.Flop: (5.50 SB) T, K, 9(2 players)Hero bets, CO calls.Turn: (3.75 BB) Q(2 players)Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.River: (5.75 BB) K(2 players)Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO calls.Final Pot: 9.75 BBResults in white below: Hero has Jd Jc (straight, king high). CO has Jh Ad (straight, ace high). Outcome: CO wins 9.75 BB. This one is interesting, standard continuation bet, get there on the turn and get the check bet I want. Can make a case for check raising the turn here. I'm not sure if I like my check raise on the river or not when the board paired. Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 (4)PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A. Hero raises, 4 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.Flop: (6.50 SB) 9, J, Q(3 players)BB checks, Hero bets, CO folds, BB raises, Hero calls.Turn: (5.25 BB) 5(2 players)BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.River: (9.25 BB) 6(2 players)BB bets, Hero calls.Final Pot: 11.25 BBResults in white below: BB has Qd 6s (two pair, queens and sixes). Hero has Ah Ac (one pair, aces). Outcome: BB wins 11.25 BB. I like the way I played this hand, but think I just got unlucky on the river Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 (5)PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Preflop: Hero is Button with T, T. 2 folds, MP1 raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, MP1 calls.Flop: (7.50 SB) 9, 2, 4(2 players)MP1 bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls.Turn: (5.75 BB) 5(2 players)MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls.River: (7.75 BB) 8(2 players)MP1 checks, Hero checks.Final Pot: 7.75 BBResults in white below: MP1 has Jd Jc (one pair, jacks). Hero has Ts Td (one pair, tens). Outcome: MP1 wins 7.75 BB. Not too sure about this hand, standard? Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 (6)PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q, Q. 3 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls.Flop: (7.50 SB) 7, T, 6(2 players)Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button calls.Turn: (5.75 BB) J(2 players)Hero bets, Button calls.River: (7.75 BB) A(2 players)Hero checks, Button checks.Final Pot: 7.75 BBResults in white below: Hero has Qc Qh (one pair, queens). Button has As Kc (one pair, aces). Outcome: Button wins 7.75 BB. Pretty standard? Donkey that cant let go of AK ? Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 (7)PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Preflop: Hero is CO with J, J. 5 folds, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls.Flop: (7.50 SB) 8, 8, T(2 players)Hero bets, Button calls.Turn: (4.75 BB) 3(2 players)Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.River: (6.75 BB) 7(2 players)Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.Final Pot: 8.75 BBResults in white below: Hero has Jh Jc (two pair, jacks and eights). Button has Ts Th (full house, tens full of eights). Outcome: Button wins 8.75 BB. Standard? Link to post Share on other sites
34off 0 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 dude just looking at those HH's I feel your pain. I have similar results in NL usually 25nl or 50nl where river beats just kill my bankroll. I feel like it always happens to me right after I hit a certain point in the night where I have won at least a buy in or 2, and then it goes all down hill, set over set, flush over flush, etc...good luck though, there are some tuff beats in there..good thing you were playing limit! Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Games yes, VIP program NOOOOO. They've just recently changed it. I'm sure Zach will be along to chime in tonight.Good luck DNA, I'll certainly be following along/rooting for you.AP sucks now. Link to post Share on other sites
ChuckP 0 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 How much are you down already? Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 How much are you down already?i lost 33 bb that first 90 minute session ($132). I planned on playing a full hour, but my stop loss kicked in so I took about an hour break and playing my last 90 minutes now, about 30 minutes left of it Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 only two timeouts so far due to multi-tabling, this one sucked .....Queue13: posts small blind $1Vilcas: posts big blind $2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to dna4ever [Ts Ks]Marulken: folds akfots: folds furbean: folds davegrayvis: calls $2NJExpos: folds Hippogryph: folds crazray99: calls $2dna4ever: calls $2Queue13: calls $1Vilcas: checks *** FLOP *** [7s 4s Kh]Queue13: checks Vilcas: checks davegrayvis: checks crazray99: checks dna4ever has timed outdna4ever: folds Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 Day 1 Starting BR - $600Day 1 Session 1 - 90 minutes, 467 hands, -33BB (-$132) Day 2 Session 2 - 80 minutes, 348 hands, +21BB (+$84)Day 1 Total Hands - 815 (590 total minutes of play)Day 1 Ending BR - $552 (-12BB) (-$48)Day 1 Win Rate - (-1.44 BB/100)Day 2 will be a new day! Link to post Share on other sites
RabidTortuga 0 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Hand #1 AJo in EP I'm either raising or folding preflop. Otherwise fine.Same with #2, raise or fold pf. Raise the flop for sure.Hand #3 I'm leading the turn, but I like the plan of waiting to raise the river against an agressive player.#4 is very nice.#5 and #6 look standard to me.#7 i'm not sure. I suppose that any hand that calls you on the turn has you beat if you lead out, and you may get him to bluff with overs by donk-checking. I also don't like giving a free card to overs, though, if he had checked behind.I have to thank you, by the way. I had gotten away from my own plan for the past couple of months, and reading this thread motivated me to start playing again. I'm at about the same bankroll, but sticking to the 300BB plan. $570ish after tonight. Maybe I'll come up with a goal and see if I can match your 4 month run. Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 someone help me interpret these PT statsHands 815VP$IP 16.44VP$SB 27.59Folded SB to steal 72.73Folded BB to steal 57.14Att to steal blinds 37.84bb/100 (-1.44)Went to SD% 41.89Won at SD% 54.84PF Raise% 7.61PFAF 0.70Flop AF 1.55Turn AF 2.00River AF 1.25Total AF 1.14Total Rake 34 (hey if you dont count the rake i only lost $14 today! )Granted only 1 day 815 hand sample but does anything glare as needing fixed from the above info? Link to post Share on other sites
RabidTortuga 0 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Too passive in general. Flop AF should be way higher. Seeing alot of showdowns, but that could be an abberation due to a small sample.I was watching you for a bit and it seemed like you limp too much in general, particularly oop, and didn't raise much in position after a couple of limpers with stong multiway hands. Also, alot of calling on the flop in position, when a raise could buy you free cards now and then Link to post Share on other sites
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