Letter I Just Wrote To Support@pokerstars.com

[mase_gotsem 0]

Breakdown of what happened in this thread so far just so we're clear here:1) I post e-mail complaining to Pokerstars Support about their shitty payout structures.2) Well known, respected posters seem to agree.3) Some posters disagree and have the "who cares it's $300,000" argument.4) King comes into the thread with the "you won't win it anyways" attitude.5) I ask him why he's not playing Sunday Majors today.6) King immediately says he hates MTT's but will play them next week and do a last longer with me.7) I agree to do a last longer with King next week.8) He retracts and say's he misspoke.9) I say "kinda what I figured". 10) People all of a sudden think i'm an arrogant person.11) I tell people to get sensitive skin cream.Makes sense.

i think 5 & 9 come off sounding douchey becouse theres no "tone" in writing , that might be what happend here . iv said things i meant with no intentions of offending but in writing it looks differant

[chgocubs99 0]

I'm pretty sure every lurker agrees with Hubdub, Kevlar, Grinder, et all that, in a vacuum, this payout structure blows.

[Sheiky 0]

Breakdown of what happened in this thread so far just so we're clear here:1) I post e-mail complaining to Pokerstars Support about their shitty payout structures.2) Well known, respected posters seem to agree.3) Some posters disagree and have the "who cares it's $300,000" argument.4) King comes into the thread with the "you won't win it anyways" attitude.5) I ask him why he's not playing Sunday Majors today.6) King immediately says he hates MTT's but will play them next week and do a last longer with me.7) I agree to do a last longer with King next week.8) He retracts and say's he misspoke.9) I say "kinda what I figured".10) People all of a sudden think i'm an arrogant person.11) I tell people to get sensitive skin cream.Makes sense.

That's not entirely accurateI'm pretty sure people have considered you an arrogant douche before this thread...Just sayin'Maybe you don't mean too or think that you are, but you do come of that way sometimes, i dunno, maybe you would be better of accepting that and making an effort not to? BTW i'm not trying to be a douche in return to you because I think you probably don't mean to come of how you do all the time.

[fatman 1]

its obv +ev to enter this tournament, but were all pissed off cuz this payout structure is absolutely destroying our long term ROIs.

That's a good point but would as many people play if they didn't have a good chance of cashing. I'm obviously speaking of the fish that make it a +ev tournament for you to play in. If as many fish didn't get that big $238 cash, but were oh so close to the big $300k, then they wouldn't play and the prize pool wouldn't be as big.Clarification: not a mtt player and don't ever play or watch the sunday mil.

[HubDub04 0]

i think 5 & 9 come off sounding douchey becouse theres no "tone" in writing , that might be what happend here . iv said things i meant with no intentions of offending but in writing it looks differant

I obviously wasn't trying to offend King, but he obviously was trying to give his .2 about something he doesn't even partake in, online MTTs. Saying i'm not gonna win it anyways is probably the most retarded comment he could've made in a thread of this nature. It's pretty obvious the odds are against anyone taking 1st place in a 15,000 player event, but he felt the need to say that I wouldn't win. Yet, i'm the guy who people are attacking. Makes sense.

I'm pretty sure every lurker agrees with Hubdub, Kevlar, Grinder, et all that, in a vacuum, this payout structure blows.

Yes

[king1305 0]

I'm pretty sure every lurker agrees with Hubdub, Kevlar, Grinder, et all that, in a vacuum, this payout structure blows.

IT DOES. If I'm an average to above-average to great MTT player, I'd be upset about losing money over the long term. This is a one week thing though and has brought more and more fish to the MTT then it usually has, so in turn the EV of said great mtt player is higher even if the first place money is lower.

[GrinderMJ 0]

Kevlar's right my itnernet is crawlign and it's hard to access web pages. Obviously this payout is good for the fish and pokerstars, but one thing people seem to overlook...Stars has lowered first place to < 16% for literally every tournament (I think) which is already way below the standard set by other web sites and every live tourney. To take that already low figure (and incredibly flat structures) and take it and make it smaller % for first, and even flatter is staggering. Huge scores make up a hella large % of overall profit for mtt pros and this is seriously hurting our livelilhood. So, obviously we have reason to complain. Ya, I see both sides of the argument but I've never once heard a fish in my entire life say "man I hope i cash for 300" every fish I've ever heard references the figure for first place, and I think ya'll are overestimating how much fish like this

[a__thekevlar__2 0]

That's a good point but would as many people play if they didn't have a good chance of cashing. I'm obviously speaking of the fish that make it a +ev tournament for you to play in. If as many fish didn't get that big $238 cash, but were oh so close to the big $300k, then they wouldn't play and the prize pool wouldn't be as big.Clarification: not a mtt player and don't ever play or watch the sunday mil.

theres a breaking point and they've definitely crossed it.

[HubDub04 0]

That's not entirely accurateI'm pretty sure people have considered you an arrogant douche before this thread...Just sayin'Maybe you don't mean too or think that you are, but you do come of that way sometimes, i dunno, maybe you would be better of accepting that and making an effort not to? BTW i'm not trying to be a douche in return to you because I think you probably don't mean to come of how you do all the time.

LOL @ that comment.I'm probably one of the nicest guys online or IRL you will meet. I'm not arrogant at all, far from it.You saying that I come off as arrogant ALL THE TIME is a flat out lie.

[Painter567 0]

Kevlar's right my itnernet is crawlign and it's hard to access web pages. Obviously this payout is good for the fish and pokerstars, but one thing people seem to overlook...Stars has lowered first place to < 16% for literally every tournament (I think) which is already way below the standard set by other web sites and every live tourney. To take that already low figure (and incredibly flat structures) and take it and make it smaller % for first, and even flatter is staggering. Huge scores make up a hella large % of overall profit for mtt pros and this is seriously hurting our livelilhood. So, obviously we have reason to complain. Ya, I see both sides of the argument but I've never once heard a fish in my entire life say "man I hope i cash for 300" every fish I've ever heard references the figure for first place, and I think ya'll are overestimating how much fish like this

YAYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!

[HubDub04 0]

Kevlar's right my itnernet is crawlign and it's hard to access web pages. Obviously this payout is good for the fish and pokerstars, but one thing people seem to overlook...Stars has lowered first place to < 16% for literally every tournament (I think) which is already way below the standard set by other web sites and every live tourney. To take that already low figure (and incredibly flat structures) and take it and make it smaller % for first, and even flatter is staggering. Huge scores make up a hella large % of overall profit for mtt pros and this is seriously hurting our livelilhood. So, obviously we have reason to complain. Ya, I see both sides of the argument but I've never once heard a fish in my entire life say "man I hope i cash for 300" every fish I've ever heard references the figure for first place, and I think ya'll are overestimating how much fish like this

What, another well known, respected poster basically agreeing with me?No way.

[chgocubs99 0]

Not sure if this is a level but Kevlar's certainly is or he is highly mistaken, one of the 2.

Not a level by any means...the EV of this one unique tournament presents does very little for the long term health of the game. This, and future, tournaments are going to attract tons of weak players because of the plethora of satteliters and shot takers the Sunday million attracts.Now they are taking away huge amounts of EV from the strongest players as well. The actual dollar amount is of little relevance, but the percentage is (I know you know this).I don't see the benefit anywhere for the players paying the most rake to the site.I still don't think people should play if they don't like it that much but Kevlars point that it is huge +EV anyway makes sense.

[a__thekevlar__2 0]

Kevlar's right my itnernet is crawlign and it's hard to access web pages. Obviously this payout is good for the fish and pokerstars, but one thing people seem to overlook...Stars has lowered first place to < 16% for literally every tournament (I think) which is already way below the standard set by other web sites and every live tourney. To take that already low figure (and incredibly flat structures) and take it and make it smaller % for first, and even flatter is staggering. Huge scores make up a hella large % of overall profit for mtt pros and this is seriously hurting our livelilhood. So, obviously we have reason to complain. Ya, I see both sides of the argument but I've never once heard a fish in my entire life say "man I hope i cash for 300" every fish I've ever heard references the figure for first place, and I think ya'll are overestimating how much fish like this

YOU ARE THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE!and also, i don't think we'd mind so much if this payout strucure was only for the sunday million, but like grinder said these payout structures are in every single tournament and are royally screwing us.

[RDog 0]

Kevlar's right my itnernet is crawlign and it's hard to access web pages. Obviously this payout is good for the fish and pokerstars, but one thing people seem to overlook...Stars has lowered first place to < 16% for literally every tournament (I think) which is already way below the standard set by other web sites and every live tourney. To take that already low figure (and incredibly flat structures) and take it and make it smaller % for first, and even flatter is staggering. Huge scores make up a hella large % of overall profit for mtt pros and this is seriously hurting our livelilhood. So, obviously we have reason to complain. Ya, I see both sides of the argument but I've never once heard a fish in my entire life say "man I hope i cash for 300" every fish I've ever heard references the figure for first place, and I think ya'll are overestimating how much fish like this

I didn't realize they were doing this across the board. So yeah, that blows. You guys have a very good issue with Stars there. I assumed this was a 1st time thing. I disagree about the fish though. The reason the bubbles blow so hard is because a lot of time min cashes multiply fishes bankroll by like 5.Basically you guys shouldn't be complaining about THIS payout, you should be complaining about their payouts period.

[chgocubs99 0]

That's a good point but would as many people play if they didn't have a good chance of cashing. I'm obviously speaking of the fish that make it a +ev tournament for you to play in. If as many fish didn't get that big $238 cash, but were oh so close to the big $300k, then they wouldn't play and the prize pool wouldn't be as big.Clarification: not a mtt player and don't ever play or watch the sunday mil.

I really think they would.

Kevlar's right my itnernet is crawlign and it's hard to access web pages. Obviously this payout is good for the fish and pokerstars, but one thing people seem to overlook...Stars has lowered first place to < 16% for literally every tournament (I think) which is already way below the standard set by other web sites and every live tourney. To take that already low figure (and incredibly flat structures) and take it and make it smaller % for first, and even flatter is staggering. Huge scores make up a hella large % of overall profit for mtt pros and this is seriously hurting our livelilhood. So, obviously we have reason to complain. Ya, I see both sides of the argument but I've never once heard a fish in my entire life say "man I hope i cash for 300" every fish I've ever heard references the figure for first place, and I think ya'll are overestimating how much fish like this

Agreed.

What, another well known, respected poster basically agreeing with me?No way.

Dude, no one is even disagreeing with you. Get over yourself. This is why people are calling you a douche.

[Wandigo 1]

Kevlar's right my itnernet is crawlign and it's hard to access web pages. Obviously this payout is good for the fish and pokerstars, but one thing people seem to overlook...Stars has lowered first place to < 16% for literally every tournament (I think) which is already way below the standard set by other web sites and every live tourney. To take that already low figure (and incredibly flat structures) and take it and make it smaller % for first, and even flatter is staggering. Huge scores make up a hella large % of overall profit for mtt pros and this is seriously hurting our livelilhood. So, obviously we have reason to complain. Ya, I see both sides of the argument but I've never once heard a fish in my entire life say "man I hope i cash for 300" every fish I've ever heard references the figure for first place, and I think ya'll are overestimating how much fish like this

[king1305 0]

Grinder's post makes complete and total sense. If our OP had explained it as well, there wouldn't have been a flame war take place.Cliff notes:OP makes post complaining about the payout structure of THE SUNDAY MILLIONReminded he has very little chance to win anyway eve if he is the best player in the worldFlame war ensuesGrinder comes and so eloquently explains that Stars has changed their payout structures for all of their mtts and it is negatively affecting how successful online pros can make a living to sustain their rolls/avoid variance/etc.

[HubDub04 0]

This is why people are calling you a douche.

[Quacktastic 106]

I'm pretty sure every lurker agrees with Hubdub, Kevlar, Grinder, et all that, in a vacuum, this payout structure blows.

Not us fish...ship the $283!!!!

[fatman 1]

Not us fish...ship the $283!!!!

lol

[HubDub04 0]

Grinder's post makes complete and total sense. If our OP had explained it as well, there wouldn't have been a flame war take place.Cliff notes:OP makes post complaining about the payout structure of THE SUNDAY MILLIONReminded he has very little chance to win anyway eve if he is the best player in the worldFlame war ensuesGrinder comes and so eloquently explains that Stars has changed their payout structures for all of their mtts and it is negatively affecting how successful online pros can make a living to sustain their rolls/avoid variance/etc.

It was definitely a necessary and solid reminder.

[HighwayStar 8]

I think most people agree with the view that payouts suck........Nice post GMJJust move most of your tournies to Full Tilt if you don't like what you're putting up withPayouts + Blind Structures + Overall tourney schedule>>>>>>> Stars

[Tehtoe 3]

I really can't see why there's a ton of people calling you a douche right now.

[chgocubs99 0]

crying baby

This doesn't make any sense since I'm not crying.The skin cream stuff made no sense since no one was offended.FYI.

[fitzinabox 0]

Hubdub being a douche.... old news???