+ev Shove?

[AimHigher 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)MP2 (t7850)CO (t1035)Button (t1260)SB (t1860)Hero (t1275)UTG (t6410)UTG+1 (t5550)MP1 (t2775)Preflop: Hero is BB with T, K. UTG calls t150, UTG+1 calls t150, MP1 calls t150, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero raises to t1275Yes? No?There are no bubble considerations. It's a 180 player $2.20.

[jmbreslin 0]

I'd probably just see the flop for free but maybe that's too weak. The problem is that your push will look like an obvious steal so you may get looked up by one of the big stacks with Ax or a small-med PP.

[potatoman 0]

I don't like it.KTo is such a sucker hand, and when we get called, which is probably often, we're always behind. Even in a limped pot, could be up against AJ, KQ, KJ...I'm happy to see a free flop. I don't think it's too weak.

[copernicus 0]

depends a lot on the table but you will almost certainly get looked up by any A since they are getting nearly 2:1 odds. OTOH your stack is so small this is an opportunity to nearly double up uncontested or have a reasonable shot at tripling up that gives you some real life in the tourney.Id guess overall its -cEV but +$EV, so go for it. (where $EV isnt pure ICM, it takes into consideration the impact of blinds, having a threatening stack etc)Re just completing while its certainly +cEV its going to be a difficult hand to play OOP and to get much value out of even if you can play it OOP. One thought here is a kind of Stop and Go....if SB checks and we hit the flop softly or the flop is all lower than T, push it then. Even if a lower pair did hit and refuses to fold youve still got 6 outs.

[jmbreslin 0]

Re just completing while its certainly +cEV its going to be a difficult hand to play OOP and to get much value out of even if you can play it OOP. One thought here is a kind of Stop and Go....if SB checks and we hit the flop softly or the flop is all lower than T, push it then. Even if a lower pair did hit and refuses to fold youve still got 6 outs.

Risky with 3 still to act after Hero...

[copernicus 0]

Risky with 3 still to act after Hero...

That risk hasnt changed...you have the same (4) players behind you if you push preflop. Like a normal SnG the only question is whether you pick up FE after the flop (or in this case get away with at least some stack left if its an ugly flop).

[TravisG 0]

well in a 2.20 (and up to $11s) you'll sometimes get looked up by QT,QJ etc as well. shortstacked you don't cry about a flip or AJ v KT hands either. I think this is +EV since you effectively "half-double" if they fold, and you might not be in that much of a bad shape against their calling ranges. any reads on villains limping and calling ranges would make it a lot easier.

[Sheiky 0]

I think shoving is definitely +EV beause you increase your stack by 50% if they all fold.

[RISEorFall 0]

I think shoving is definitely +EV beause you increase your stack by 50% if they all fold.

i think theyre almost never all folding, though. if it was a buncha smaller stacks limping, sure, but with two of the bigger stacks at the table (5550 and 6410) one of those two is going to look you up more often than not.if you dont mind racing or being 40/60 with a good amount of dead money in the pot then go for it. youre not desperately short and can probably find some better spots to pick up some pots, though.i made the same move with the same hand in the money in a $15 deep stack on UB the other night. EP limper calls with A8o, i brick out. was top 3 for 90% of the tourney then out before the decent money. (not just from that hand, i lost a few big pots on the bubble and was shortstacked)

[AimHigher 0]

i think theyre almost never all folding, though. if it was a buncha smaller stacks limping, sure, but with two of the bigger stacks at the table (5550 and 6410) one of those two is going to look you up more often than not.if you dont mind racing or being 40/60 with a good amount of dead money in the pot then go for it. youre not desperately short and can probably find some better spots to pick up some pots, though.i made the same move with the same hand in the money in a $15 deep stack on UB the other night. EP limper calls with A8o, i brick out. was top 3 for 90% of the tourney then out before the decent money. (not just from that hand, i lost a few big pots on the bubble and was shortstacked)

I don't think it really matters because KTo has reasonable equity against their limping range and the magnitude of dead money in the pot more than compensates for the fact that I might be a 3:2 dog in terms of equity. I have no problem getting in it and being an underdog if it is +cEV.I really think being able to identify any profitable opportunity and take it is so key in tournaments, especially turbos. I'm not saying I necessarily did that here, but it is definitely something I have to work on. Well, that and my near horrendous post flop game. B)

[Mercury69 3]

I would say....check your option and see a flop. KT is nothing to go to war with...One of the earyl limpers is going to have an A or a small PP and will certainly look you up.

[mk 11]

v standard

[Aces Rule 0]

I would say....check your option and see a flop. KT is nothing to go to war with...One of the earyl limpers is going to have an A or a small PP and will certainly look you up.

Nothing to add to post but for Mercury69's signiture. I read a book with this Churchill anadote but with a different response from Winston - "I may be drunk my dear lady but you are ugly and while I will once again be sober tomrrow morning, you will still be ugly!" or words to that effect. "**** you" just doesn't seem likely coming from a Prime Minister and certainly isn't as funny as the response in that book. FYI.

[Sheiky 0]

Nothing to add to post but for Mercury69's signiture. I read a book with this Churchill anadote but with a different response from Winston - "I may be drunk my dear lady but you are ugly and while I will once again be sober tomrrow morning, you will still be ugly!" or words to that effect. "**** you" just doesn't seem likely coming from a Prime Minister and certainly isn't as funny as the response in that book. FYI.

Yeh he knows that, it's acctualy a quote of a quote from something else, designed to be deeply ironic i think

[Mercury69 3]

Nothing to add to post but for Mercury69's signiture. I read a book with this Churchill anadote but with a different response from Winston - "I may be drunk my dear lady but you are ugly and while I will once again be sober tomrrow morning, you will still be ugly!" or words to that effect. "**** you" just doesn't seem likely coming from a Prime Minister and certainly isn't as funny as the response in that book. FYI.

Yeh he knows that, it's acctualy a quote of a quote from something else, designed to be deeply ironic i think

It's from National Lampoon, when they actually had some balls back in the early 70's. Michael O'Donoghue (sp?ffs) wrote for NatLamp and went on to write some of the darker early SNL skits.Thanks, Sheiky :-)