Tim Lincecum

[DinkDonk 1]

The Freak>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Duke. Duke is good but he doesnt have the track record Tim has, the stuff Tim has and like PMJ already pointed out Duke has been extremely lucky with BABIP this year. Ill take action with anyone on Tim having a better ERA for the rest of the year or VORP or almost whatever metric you want to use.

LOL @ The Freak...he's good, but he's not a freak lol. I pray that the reason he was sick is because he got wasted the night before, now that would be FREAKin awesome! That halo might have to be re-shined, no?...oh, and I'll take that action on ERA for the rest of the year.

I would take Lincecum's post AS break ERA vs. Duchscherer.

Since bets would have been placed.Duke 2 starts 13 Innings 6.92 ERA 10k 5BBLincecum 2 starts 13 Innings 4.85 ERA 21k 4BBLincecum is gonna smoke him. 13 strikeouts and no walks in 7 innings for Tim last night is sick good. The Freak is all that is man!!!!

Since July 16th when bets would have been made.Lincecum 7 starts, 48 innings, 2.42 ERA, 65 Ks, 20 BBsDuchscherer 6 starst, 33 innings, 4.91 ERA, 57Ks, 17 BBs

lol @ all the faux intellectuals in this thread. Glad I don't watch sports through such a magnifying glass, how boring that must be.So now we only play half a season? If that's your argument, then Duke wins the first half ERA title. And CC Sabbathia wins the second half CY Young. LOL, nice try though.

Ok, every single mention of this bet was from that point on. What do you mean nice try? He's showing exactly what the bet would have been. See? I bolded it.

[Sportsmack 0]

Most of the anger that was directed towards you was because you looked at logical arguments right in the face and said LMAO.

LMAO

Now the crow's coming home to roost. It's roosting right in your fucking face.

Does somebody need a hug? :icon_biggrin:And thanks for my new sig lmao

[Moneyball16 0]

What annoys me about this whole thing is that in a different thread (I can't remember which one, or I would quote you on it) you got into a debate with CaneBrain about who's a better GM, Beane or Beinfest. You even told Cane to read Moneyball to understand how great Beane is. In that book they specifically talk about how traditional statistics are flawed and how Beane is able to exploit this. They even specifically mention BABIP. Yet, you're in here going on about how these advanced statistics are meaningless and the only ones that matter are the traditional ones like ERA and WHIP.If you want to watch sports just for the sake of enjoying the game, then that's fine. But don't get into arguments like this one when you're clearly out of your league. Most of the anger that was directed towards you was because you looked at logical arguments right in the face and said LMAO.

Yeah I saw this same argument he was making and was wondering if Sportsmack had even read Moneyball.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

Ok, every single mention of this bet was from that point on. What do you mean nice try? He's showing exactly what the bet would have been. See? I bolded it.

Evidence is for faux-intellectuals. I bet you have never even seen a sunset or lain with a woman. Your idea of a good time is programming in FORTRAN.I am going to get my insults confused here, but it is very likely that you are also a homosexual.

[Sportsmack 0]

Evidence is for faux-intellectuals. I bet you have never even seen a sunset or lain with a woman. Your idea of a good time is programming in FORTRAN.I am going to get my insults confused here, but it is very likely that you are also a homosexual.

There you are...hey have you paid Pokerkid555 from those bets yet? He won't pay me because he says you haven't paid him. Please pay him.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

There you are...hey have you paid Pokerkid555 from those bets yet? He won't pay me because he says you haven't paid him. Please pay him.

Yeah, he should have his money. If you don't get paid, just send me a PM and I'll take care of it somehow. I felt a little guilty about forgetting to pay him, but not now. He got all high and mighty with me, and he's refusing to pay you just because some other dirtbag hasn't paid him yet? I don't think it works like that, does it? "Sorry, man. I wish I could pay you for fixing my Air Conditioner, but my brother hasn't hit me back for that bar tab I covered on Friday, soo....."

[DinkDonk 1]

Evidence is for faux-intellectuals. I bet you have never even seen a sunset or lain with a woman. Your idea of a good time is programming in FORTRAN.I am going to get my insults confused here, but it is very likely that you are also a homosexual.

LOL

[Sportsmack 0]

Yeah, he should have his money. If you don't get paid, just send me a PM and I'll take care of it somehow. I felt a little guilty about forgetting to pay him, but not now. He got all high and mighty with me, and he's refusing to pay you just because some other dirtbag hasn't paid him yet? I don't think it works like that, does it? "Sorry, man. I wish I could pay you for fixing my Air Conditioner, but my brother hasn't hit me back for that bar tab I covered on Friday, soo....."

LOL, thanks. Yeah I cut him a little slack cause he said he withdrew money from Stars to go on vacation with, and that he would re-deposit and transfer when he got home. Then he got home and said he couldn't deposit because he doesn't have a job lol. So he said he was waiting for you to pay him, so he could pay me. But it's been almost a month now and still nothing. He hasn't returned my last 2 PM's, so I doubt I'll ever see it, he seemed kinda shady to begin with. Oh well, live and learn.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

LOL, thanks. Yeah I cut him a little slack cause he said he withdrew money from Stars to go on vacation with, and that he would re-deposit and transfer when he got home. Then he got home and said he couldn't deposit because he doesn't have a job lol. So he said he was waiting for you to pay him, so he could pay me. But it's been almost a month now and still nothing. He hasn't returned my last 2 PM's, so I doubt I'll ever see it, he seemed kinda shady to begin with. Oh well, live and learn.

I actually was super late to get him paid, and he got a little upset about it, so he was telling the truth on that front. Shouldn't be any worries, since I've got one of my lackey's (Bizzle) lackey's on it. If I'd known 3 days ago I just would've had it transferred to you.

[gobears 0]

Another stellar performance by Lincecum tonight!HOWEVER, Bochy should be fired for letting him go 132 pitches - nothing to play for this season so gee why don't we protect our biggest weapon? It's like they want Tim's arm to fall off at some point down the road. If the new majority owner has a clue, time to lay down the law on pitch counts!

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Another stellar performance by Lincecum tonight!HOWEVER, Bochy should be fired for letting him go 132 pitches - nothing to play for this season so gee why don't we protect our biggest weapon? It's like they want Tim's arm to fall off at some point down the road. If the new majority owner has a clue, time to lay down the law on pitch counts!

It's absurd how many Manager's still disregard pitch counts.

[Tactical Bear 3]

It's absurd how many Manager's still disregard pitch counts.

It's absurd how many pitchers are total faggots about their arms. Rotator cuff health is totally overrated.

[GeneralGeeWhiz 0]

Tiny Tim for Cy Young?Discuss.

[Moneyball16 0]

Tiny Tim should definitely be the NL Cy Young winner. Wins aside I think hes been the best pitcher in the NL.

[Sportsmack 0]

Tiny Tim for Cy Young?Discuss.

Tiny Tim should definitely be the NL Cy Young winner. Wins aside I think hes been the best pitcher in the NL.

Not that you guys are biased or anything lmao, but seriously I'll give you one big reason why little Timmy won't win the CY...Remember this guy?Yes I know he doesn't have a cute little name like "The Freak," so he might lose a few votes for that, but overall B. Webb has been the most dominant pitcher in the NL this year. And don't go giving me the "but Tim Lincecum is doing all this on a losing team." Well, Cliff Lee is doing this on a losing team as well, and he's probably going to win the CY Young in the AL...so no extra brownie points for that. Discuss...

[bigkg 0]

Not that you guys are biased or anything lmao, but seriously I'll give you one big reason why little Timmy won't win the CY...Remember this guy?Yes I know he doesn't have a cute little name like "The Freak," so he might lose a few votes for that, but overall B. Webb has been the most dominant pitcher in the NL this year. And don't go giving me the "but Tim Lincecum is doing all this on a losing team." Well, Cliff Lee is doing this on a losing team as well, and he's probably going to win the CY Young in the AL...so no extra brownie points for that. Discuss...

Why is Webb better, because he has more wins?silly

[Moneyball16 0]

I wouldnt have a problem with Webb winning the Cy Young. The numbers are very close.Webb 19-5 2.96 ERA, 157 K, 46 BB, 1.12 WHIP in 188.2 innings. 3.05 FIP, 3.20 xFIP.Lincecum 15-3, 2.43 ERA, 210 Ks, 70 BB, 1.18 WHIP in 185.1 innings. 2.72 FIP, 3.45 xFIP.Really close. But I think Lincecum has been better. Also for those who feel wins should be a large part in deciding this should consider than Tims has a higher win percentage even though he doesn't have as many wins.Also Johan isnt getting nearly enough Cy Young support in the media. Hes quietly put together a very good year.

[Sportsmack 0]

Why is Webb better, because he has more wins?silly

No no, see you're getting that confused with why the D-backs are better than the Giants. I'm not saying that Lincecum hasn't been dominant, but Webb has been just as dominant and with 4 more wins, on a 1st place team. And while I agree that wins are overrated, a pitcher with the best W/L record on a 1st place team is always gonna be the "sexy" pick. There's absolutely no reason that I can think of to vote against Webb. The numbers are almost identical, he has more wins (again overrated in my mind), and he's doing it on a team that will probably win the division. If the roles were reversed and Lincecum had the extra wins on a division winner, then it would go to Lincecum. That's just how these things have always played out.Now in the AL, there is no real dominant pitcher on any of the division leading teams. So chances are, Lee will probably win it on a team that might finish under .500. But I would say that he is a huge exception to the rule.

[bigkg 0]

No no, see you're getting that confused with why the D-backs are better than the Giants. I'm not saying that Lincecum hasn't been dominant, but Webb has been just as dominant and with 4 more wins, on a 1st place team. And while I agree that wins are overrated, a pitcher with the best W/L record on a 1st place team is always gonna be the "sexy" pick. There's absolutely no reason that I can think of to vote against Webb. The numbers are almost identical, he has more wins (again overrated in my mind), and he's doing it on a team that will probably win the division. If the roles were reversed and Lincecum had the extra wins on a division winner, then it would go to Lincecum. That's just how these things have always played out.Now in the AL, there is no real dominant pitcher on any of the division leading teams. So chances are, Lee will probably win it on a team that might finish under .500. But I would say that he is a huge exception to the rule.

Lincecum has been just a little better than Webb. If Webb were to win though, I wouldn't complain.Being on a good or bad team should have absolutely nothing to do with it, and I'd like to think the voters feel the same. This isn't the MVP award.

[DinkDonk 1]

The Oakland fan who tells us that Justin Duchscherer is better than Tim Lincecum thinks we're biased. Oh.

[Sportsmack 0]

The Oakland fan who tells us that Justin Duchscherer is better than Tim Lincecum thinks we're biased. Oh.

LOL, I don't remember quoting you in that post, read it again bro.

[runthemover 39]

first, the 'you're taking this too seriously' line is just a substitute for the 'my argument is totally wrong and you've blown me out of the water' line.now, on to what I was going to say

No no, see you're getting that confused with why the D-backs are better than the Giants. I'm not saying that Lincecum hasn't been dominant, but Webb has been just as dominant and with 4 more wins, on a 1st place team. And while I agree that wins are overrated, a pitcher with the best W/L record on a 1st place team is always gonna be the "sexy" pick. There's absolutely no reason that I can think of to vote against Webb. The numbers are almost identical, he has more wins (again overrated in my mind), and he's doing it on a team that will probably win the division. If the roles were reversed and Lincecum had the extra wins on a division winner, then it would go to Lincecum. That's just how these things have always played out.

if anything, Lincecum's wins are more impressive. He's doing it for a team that's scored 100 less runs. Without knowing the actual stats, I'd venture a guess that Webb gets more runs per game and this obviously helps get more wins (and/or less runs makes it harder to get wins).I know tacticalbear discounts ERA but Webb 19-5 2.96 ERA, 157 K, 46 BB, 1.12 WHIP in 188.2 innings. 3.05 FIP, 3.20 xFIP.Lincecum 15-3, 2.43 ERA, 210 Ks, 70 BB, 1.18 WHIP in 185.1 innings. 2.72 FIP, 3.45 xFIP.being a half point better has got to count for something.seems like TL should be the favourite

[Tactical Bear 3]

first, the 'you're taking this too seriously' line is just a substitute for the 'my argument is totally wrong and you've blown me out of the water' line.now, on to what I was going to sayif anything, Lincecum's wins are more impressive. He's doing it for a team that's scored 100 less runs. Without knowing the actual stats, I'd venture a guess that Webb gets more runs per game and this obviously helps get more wins (and/or less runs makes it harder to get wins).I know tacticalbear discounts ERA but Webb 19-5 2.96 ERA, 157 K, 46 BB, 1.12 WHIP in 188.2 innings. 3.05 FIP, 3.20 xFIP.Lincecum 15-3, 2.43 ERA, 210 Ks, 70 BB, 1.18 WHIP in 185.1 innings. 2.72 FIP, 3.45 xFIP.being a half point better has got to count for something.seems like TL should be the favourite

Ripped right from the JoePosnanski article, eh? I just read that like 10 minutes ago.I really think the Webb/Lincecum argument boils down to what you're looking for. Lincecum's FIP is slightly better, but his xFIP is slightly worse. (For the unititiated, FIP is calculated from BB/9, K/9, and HR/9, whereas xFIP normalizes for HR/9, since HR rate is thought to be simply a function of flyball rate). Webb has probably given up more HRs/flyball than he should, but he gives up so few flyballs anyway that it doesn't matter much. His FIP is helped by his low flyball rate, and it's possible his xFIP is too high, as his HR/flyball may be naturally lower than other pitchers'.In short: I don't think I mind either way. If we really wanted to get nit-picky, we'd adjust for the levels of competition has faced, and use that to make the determination, but I wouldn't care no matter who won the balloting. Santana has a good case, too. He may be having the best year of all of the NL pitchers.Wang

[runthemover 39]

I don't know who Joe Posnanski is. I think most of the voters will look at wins, k's, era, and how good their respective team is. I think a lot of them will say that the 20+ wins Webb gets plus them probably making the playoffs outweighs the era and k advantage lincecum has. Now some of you will probably say, "hey there's tons of other stats (and more meaningful ones)." But, these are probably mostly 50-70 year old writers who've been doing this for 30+ years and they've done it this way every year. Actually they'll probably throw in walks as well and that's advantage to Webb. As of now, I think TL is the candidate but I think Webb will get the votes.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I don't know who Joe Posnanski is. I think most of the voters will look at wins, k's, era, and how good their respective team is. I think a lot of them will say that the 20+ wins Webb gets plus them probably making the playoffs outweighs the era and k advantage lincecum has. Now some of you will probably say, "hey there's tons of other stats (and more meaningful ones)." But, these are probably mostly 50-70 year old writers who've been doing this for 30+ years and they've done it this way every year. Actually they'll probably throw in walks as well and that's advantage to Webb. As of now, I think TL is the candidate but I think Webb will get the votes.

I'd bet on Webb over TL. Never underestimate the depth the baseball writer's of america's sticks as buried in the mud.