fleung22 1 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 I was railing a Full Tilt table last night with Jen Harmon, Robert Williamson III and Mike Matasouw...A railer mentioned JB passing and these pros all did the condolences thing....when another railer brought up that JB probably was not the niciest guy around...they all played the "He was nice to me" card which to me is another indication of how JB really was....If you where in the "Pro club" he was a good guy, if not, you where less than dirt..public forum = public speaking.not a fan of bashing the dead but if you have a bad experience personally and feel a need to voice your opinion then that's your prerogative. I don't think JC was particularly out of line though...he wasn't listing the crap like "JB was a dick, let me count the ways" not like I know Bonetti but he appeared to be a poker player who had a lot of love for people in his circle. you mentioned "pro club" kind of touched on it but I think it was more like people who he had a rapport with or knew thru old time friends. I remember a final table with TJ Cloutier and Todd Brunson. Sure it could of been tv or that fact he'd made it so far in the tournament but he seemed genuinely pleasant with those he knew. He spoke to Todd like an uncle, since he knew Doyle, and cheered for Todd's 99 to hit a 9 when they were all in against each other. A 9 actually hit and John had a good laugh. When he lost to TJ he seemed genuinely happy for TJ. Great actor? possibly but I don't think the average old time rounder will win an oscar.I'm not shocked to hear what JC said...call it stereotyping old guys but that reaction seems so natural. showing a bluff is like spitting in their face. the reaction from the old guy is often the same because they see it as offensive and newspapers make the youth of america look bad in general. not saying it's right but I "get it" Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Carlin was funnier before he got sober Link to post Share on other sites
mase_gotsem 0 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 this is my thgts on this topic . fwiw, i think jc could have just not said anything in the thread but it doesnt make what he said out of line or disrespectful imo.^^ he wasnt out of line he just stated his opinion, did he need to ? no , but he did w/e ..and fwiw i dont think brandi deserved wut she got .. she was obv mentaly imbalanced which some what excuses her actions .imo.if the bonetti guy wasnt the nicest guy w/e i mean were all asholes to someone at somepoint and that doesnt make us all scum , it makes us human . Link to post Share on other sites
PrtyPSux 0 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 I should never write anything on the interwebs again in my life...within a couple of weeks I've turned into a racist TV bragging dead person basher....sigh. Link to post Share on other sites
fleung22 1 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 I should never write anything on the interwebs again in my life...within a couple of weeks I've turned into a racist TV bragging dead person basher....sigh.if it helps, I never thought otherwisesw Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Remember the Chip Reese thread? I'm having visions of that. Although I'm sure we can all agree Chip Reese was universally considered classy. And I'm not taking sides. So this is going to be my input.http://youtube.com/watch?v=hLVsIpejFgM Link to post Share on other sites
fleung22 1 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Remember the Chip Reese thread? I'm having visions of that. Although I'm sure we can all agree Chip Reese was universally considered classy. And I'm not taking sides. So this is going to be my input.http://youtube.com/watch?v=hLVsIpejFgM holy crap...Chip is DEAD!?!? wow, I stopped following poker news for 6 months and a lot happened during that time.how does a guy win the 50K HORSE event and then die the next year!? Link to post Share on other sites
looshle 6 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 I should never write anything on the interwebs again in my life...within a couple of weeks I've turned into a racist TV bragging dead person basher....sigh.I really don't think this is a case of you being a "dead person basher." I just think its another case of you being racist.I see the way you look at me and Hoosier sometimes. Its 2008, get over it. Link to post Share on other sites
looshle 6 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 holy crap...Chip is DEAD!?!? wow, I stopped following poker news for 6 months and a lot happened during that time.how does a guy win the 50K HORSE event and then die the next year!?He won a poker tournament not the Boston marathon. Link to post Share on other sites
Suited_Up 2 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 I really don't think this is a case of you being a "dead person basher." I just think its another case of you being racist.I see the way you look at me and Hoosier sometimes. Its 2008, get over it. He won a poker tournament not the Boston marathon.LOOOOOOL Link to post Share on other sites
CBass1724 1 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 I should never write anything on the interwebs again in my life...within a couple of weeks I've turned into a racist TV bragging dead person basher....sigh.When you die and someone makes a thread on 4 or here, I will be sure to include this info.I think it could have been better if nothing was said at all but if people are making shit up about someone that isn't true, then it should be corrected. It sounds well loldocumented that JB had his own shortcomings that should probably have been pointed out to the people saying "he was a true gentleman" "ambassador" blah blah, etc, etc. I'm sorry the man passed away but Ghandi he was not. Link to post Share on other sites
Nimue1995 1 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 All this shows is that nobody's perfect. We all have our bad days and there are people in all of our lives that after we died would say we were assholes. I'm sure that if I died tomorrow, the renter that we just tossed out on her ass for non-payment of rent for the last 2 months would say I was a nasty bitch. But I'd hope that the positive things I did in life would outweigh her opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
Jrobb25 0 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 I wonder why Cardplayer never picked up this story at least I didn't see it. That might tell you something.They even had the Brandi stroy.edit ok its there....took them a few days. Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Not to pile on, but I'll just say that quite a few players that I consider very, very nice guys have all listed him as someone they detested playing with, mainly for the way he treated dealers and fellow players. Hellmuth loved him which is understandable, but I'm sure there were people that loved Ty Cobb too.Semi related note, I found this article by Matt Savage when looking for another article, the part I pasted dealing with JB: http://www.pokernews.com/news/2008/02/othe...1-road-wsop.htmMy first challenge was going to be to get the respect of the players, as I knew a few pros, but not many. I did, however, feel that I was up to the task, so I went back to the Bay 101 during their annual Shooting Star event to introduce myself. I went to every pro I recognized and shook hands, introduced myself, and discussed my plans for the WSOP. I specifically sought out the top pros and those that were known to be problematic. Most of them looked at me like 'Who is this guy?' but listened to what I had to say. Men the Master (Nguyen), John Bonetti, and Sam Grizzle were among those I had heard a lot about, regarding abusive behavior toward other players and dealers, so I approached them as if there was a new sheriff in town as I spread the word that abusive behavior would not be allowed. Of the three, only Grizzle did not take offense and kind of laughed it off. Men said, "I am Men the Master, I am Men the Master," and Bonetti looked for his best friend, Phil Hellmuth, to talk to me and said, "Do you believe this $@!*& guy." I think Phil, down deep, respected me for being strong, but wouldn't admit it at the time and he has since become one of my strongest supporters. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Bonetti looked for his best friend, Phil Hellmuth,dead or not he must be a dick. Link to post Share on other sites
superleeds 0 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 just my 2¢ worth.About 5 or 6 years ago in a $500 tournament at Foxwoods (during one of the two main series they play there, Huck Seed won for those that are interested), we are down to the final 3 tables and ITM. We draw for new tables and I get a table with HS, Kathy Liebert and JB. I didn't know who he was at the time and this was the only time we had been at a table together. After about 5 mins my impression of him was that he was a bit of a grumpy old man. A few at the table knew him but he never got into anything with any player but he did often make snidy comments aimed at the dealer.He doubled me up when he called my all-in in a Q high flop with KQ. I had AQ and as he turned his cards up he said 'You got me?' He was fine about it. I didn't have many chips but enough that made some impact on his stack. As the game went on he lost a few more confrontations and as his chips dwindled his remarks to the dealers became more offensive. At one point KL threatened to call the floor if he didn't stop berating the dealer, who was doing a fine job. She was getting visibly upset at the, by now, constant remarks being made to her by JB. Remarks all centered around his bad luck and or the crap cards he was getting being her fault.Eventually, when he still had a healthy stack, he got it all-in pre-flop with AA against KL's QQ. Needless to say a Q hit the board and he was out but not before a little 4 letter tirade aimed again almost exclusively at the poor dealer.Someone only later told me who he was and what he had done in Poker. Link to post Share on other sites
SlapStick 0 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Its funny how all this debate was started by a comment from HubDub who was the retard insulting and berating Brandi for 6 pages on her RIP thread.I basically have never heard of Bonetti before so I don't have much of a say but I think JC's comment was fine. Link to post Share on other sites
Jrobb25 0 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Not to pile on, but I'll just say that quite a few players that I consider very, very nice guys have all listed him as someone they detested playing with, mainly for the way he treated dealers and fellow players. Hellmuth loved him which is understandable, but I'm sure there were people that loved Ty Cobb too.Semi related note, I found this article by Matt Savage when looking for another article, the part I pasted dealing with JB: http://www.pokernews.com/news/2008/02/othe...1-road-wsop.htm +1 great line Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 holy crap...Chip is DEAD!?!? wow, I stopped following poker news for 6 months and a lot happened during that time.how does a guy win the 50K HORSE event and then die the next year!?you are officially the Canadian Rip Van Winkle, eh?fwiw, people piling on JC need to check themselves. (always wanted to say that!) Your legacy is all you leave behind when you die and your actions shape that legacy. Sugarcoating the legacy serves no real purpose other than making yourself look good.This reminds me of the Sopranos episode where they were all attempting to mourn Tony's mother. No one wanted to come out and say something less than flattering but JC felt compelled to. And that's fine, I think honestly applies even to the recently passed.if Eskimo Clark died tomorrow, would you all be on here talking about what a great gentleman he was? Where is the line drawn? better to just be honest I say. It is not even disputed that Bonetti treated poker dealers and staff like dirt.....and he should be held accountable for that. Link to post Share on other sites
Sportsmack 0 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 There's a passage in the Bible that goes "let him who is without sin cast the first stone..." No one has the right to stand in judgment over someone else if you adhere to the statement above. We've all said or done "douchie" things to other people in our lives at some point...heck I see "douchie" things be said on this forum everyday. Therefore, (if you adhere to the initial statement above) not one of us deserves to stand in judgment of anyone else, period.With that being said, it doesn't seem like JC was coming off as judgmental at all, so much as he was giving his opinion. He was just stating facts...Bonetti berated him and the dealer. He didn't come on here and say that Bonetti deserves to rot in Hell. The worst thing JC said was that Bonetti "was mean," and that he wasn't a true gentelman and ambassador for the game. Ooooooooh, how horrible. It is/was probably a fact...not judgment. Link to post Share on other sites
CBass1724 1 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 There's a passage in the Bible that goes...:popcorn: Link to post Share on other sites
Sportsmack 0 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 :popcorn:LOL, I wasn't trying to go that route...just trying to make a case for judgment vs. opinion, nothing more. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 if Eskimo Clark died tomorrow, would you all be on here talking about what a great gentleman he was? Where is the line drawn? better to just be honest I say. It is not even disputed that Bonetti treated poker dealers and staff like dirt.....and he should be held accountable for that.Eskimo Clark was a corpman in Nam. I think a little respect for him isn't too much to ask before he dies... Link to post Share on other sites
CBass1724 1 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 LOL, I wasn't trying to go that route...just trying to make a case for judgment vs. opinion, nothing more.Just fucking with you Ted! Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Meh......not worth it. Link to post Share on other sites
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