Live Tourney Rules Question

[ScottK2001 0]

I was playing in one of the mega stack tourneys at Caesar's a few weeks ago, and the following situation came up fairly early:I was involved in a hand with one other player, and after he bet the river and I decided to call, he said "nice call," and mucked his hand. At that point, do I still have to show, or am I just entitled to take down the pot without showing?I was about to muck (and take the pot) when the other player said that I had to show, but I didn't think he was right. Either way, I showed since I didn't really care to wait for the floor, but I wanted to know for the future if there's a clear answer.

[Citizen Erased 0]

Pretty sure there was a huge debate on this a while ago (don't know where to start in finding you the link. Sorry)I THINK the outcome was that you officially don't, but it's correct etiquette to do so, but I could easily be wrong...

[oldmangrimis 0]

I was playing in one of the mega stack tourneys at Caesar's a few weeks ago, and the following situation came up fairly early:I was involved in a hand with one other player, and after he bet the river and I decided to call, he said "nice call," and mucked his hand. At that point, do I still have to show, or am I just entitled to take down the pot without showing?I was about to muck (and take the pot) when the other player said that I had to show, but I didn't think he was right. Either way, I showed since I didn't really care to wait for the floor, but I wanted to know for the future if there's a clear answer.

In most case he should not ask you to show but becouse chimp dumping in tournament are a problem the table need to be able to see if this is happening.

[FatBurger 0]

You called him, so you have a right to see his hand. Based on the fact that he's showing incredibly poor etiquette to muck his cards, he has no right to ask you to show.

[Gallo 1]

I was playing in one of the mega stack tourneys at Caesar's a few weeks ago, and the following situation came up fairly early:I was involved in a hand with one other player, and after he bet the river and I decided to call, he said "nice call," and mucked his hand. At that point, do I still have to show, or am I just entitled to take down the pot without showing?I was about to muck (and take the pot) when the other player said that I had to show, but I didn't think he was right. Either way, I showed since I didn't really care to wait for the floor, but I wanted to know for the future if there's a clear answer.

Not very knowledgeable about the rules, but I'm pretty sure that once he mucks the hand is over and it's your pot and you don't have to show.

[barrec 0]

To educatedly guess, it's probably up to each casino. I agree the general ettiquette is that you don't have to show, though if someone wants to see they can probably 'legally' ask. The floor person should decide in all cases and I bet each casino decides for themselves. Hell, maybe even each floor person decides.

[PMJackson21 0]

You must show your hand to win a pot at showdown. Nothing in the tda covers this specifically but robert's rules of poker does, and I've never seen it ruled otherwise. Once the hand goes to showdown, the winner loses the ability to muck without showing. If you wanted, you could have had the loser's hand pulled from the muck as well (extremely bad etiquette).I do seem to remember a similar thread about this from a while back though, maybe there was an exception to the rule to be found in it.

[Balloon guy 158]

You called him, so you have a right to see his hand. Based on the fact that he's showing incredibly poor etiquette to muck his cards, he has no right to ask you to show.

Not bad at all, it's standardBad etiquette would be to demand to see his cards. Which you have a right to see.You gain little extra value seeing which hand he bluffed with, just focus on how he bet

[thebottomline 0]

I think if he mucks, the hand is dead and you can muck, I'm pretty sure. You don't have to show the winning hand if the hand is over, he's conceded the pot. It was on PAD with Bellande, I'm not sure who against, I think Hellmuth. Bellande called on the end and the other player said "good call" but didn't muck or show, and Bellande wanted him to either show or muck because if the player mucked, he could muck without giving out information, and he said that's the rules. The argument went on to etiquette, because as the player said "good call" but didn't muck, it's generally accepted that the other player shows and takes it down. If, however, he'd said good call and mucked, like in your case, I think you're free to muck as well.Be good to have some clarification, but this is how I think it is. Legally you don't have to show when the hand is over, as a showdown is between two live hands with all bets called, but his hand wasn't live.

[FatBurger 0]

Not bad at all, it's standardBad etiquette would be to demand to see his cards. Which you have a right to see.You gain little extra value seeing which hand he bluffed with, just focus on how he bet

Good point

[XXEddie 0]

Not bad at all, it's standardBad etiquette would be to demand to see his cards. Which you have a right to see.You gain little extra value seeing which hand he bluffed with, just focus on how he bet

i disagree. You get to see excatly what he bluffed you with.Did he miss a draw? Did he call you down with no hand intending to bluff the river? Did he have a marginial hand and decided to bet figuring he was behind?

[WallstreetMSU 0]

i ran into this at a live mtt in detroit and their house rule was that they have to see a winning hand to ship a pot at showdown... but i would think that if the bettor on the river mucks it should be shipped to the caller without having to show.

[I_fold08 1]

You must show your hand to win a pot at showdown. Nothing in the tda covers this specifically but robert's rules of poker does, and I've never seen it ruled otherwise. Once the hand goes to showdown, the winner loses the ability to muck without showing. If you wanted, you could have had the loser's hand pulled from the muck as well (extremely bad etiquette).I do seem to remember a similar thread about this from a while back though, maybe there was an exception to the rule to be found in it.

i think you are wrong, if you are called down you have to show your hand to see the other players hand

[cubsfan44 0]

i think you are wrong, if you are called down you have to show your hand to see the other players hand

Nope he is right

[chgocubs99 0]

Nope he is right

I'll assume you and PM know what your talking about but why would one have to show a hand to take a pot, when there are no other live hands that could possibly win said pot?

[cubsfan44 0]

I'll assume you and PM know what your talking about but why would one have to show a hand to take a pot, when there are no other live hands that could possibly win said pot?

Collusion?

[chgocubs99 0]

Collusion?

Oh

[Balloon guy 158]

i disagree. You get to see excatly what he bluffed you with.Did he miss a draw? Did he call you down with no hand intending to bluff the river? Did he have a marginial hand and decided to bet figuring he was behind?

Some time you can have too much information.If you are always putting him on a draw, then when a scare card comes you can scare yourself.Focus on his play, not his cards.Play the player.

[cubsfan44 0]

Oh

I do agree that it would be fun to refuse to show your cards and see what they do with the pot though

[PhilBluff 0]

I do agree that it would be fun to refuse to show your cards and see what they do with the pot though

They'd smoke it...oh wrong pot.Well in the online world doesn't automatically show the winning hand and the loser has the option to muck. But, you can go back and look so I don't know how that would apply to the live world. But I suppose you could make him show.

[DCJ001 0]

THE SHOWDOWN1. To win any part of a pot, a player must show all of his cards faceup on the table, whether they were used in the final hand played or not.

http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/learn/rules.asphttp://www.readybetgo.com/poker/rules/gene...-rules-217.html

[thebottomline 0]

But a showdown is between two live hands, and if one is mucked, it's no longer live. Like I said, this came up in PAD, and Bellande was 100% certain of the rules, but etiquette states that if the player says good call and doesn't muck you should show. It'd be nice with clarity not conjecture.

[psujohn 0]

Playing live at Borgata 1/2 NL cash. On the river I check, guy bets, I call, he mucks. Another player says "I don't think you have to show" dealer says "Yes, you do" I show. Other player questions the rule. Floor comes by and confirms it.I think it's a dumb rule in cash though I can certainly understand it in a tourney. But at least at one room you have to show the winning hand at showdown regardless of if it's cash or tourney.

[KramitDaToad 0]

THE SHOWDOWN1. To win any part of a pot, a player must show all of his cards faceup on the table, whether they were used in the final hand played or not.

http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/learn/rules.asphttp://www.readybetgo.com/poker/rules/gene...-rules-217.html

lol. Donkey You got this wrong last time too.From the same set of rules as above9. You must declare that you are playing the board before you throw your cards away. Otherwise, you relinquish all claim to the pot.http://www.readybetgo.com/poker/rules/rule...-poker-219.htmlThe showdown only involves players with a claim to the pot, if only 1 player has a claim there is no showdown.Here is the previous thread http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...0&p=2022669OP: If the game is hold'em and your opponent didn't declare that he was 'playing the board' the pot is yours and there is no onus to show your cards.This is of course assuming you are playing under "Roberts Rule's of Poker" which are the ones in all the links. The house may have a different set

[Mercury69 3]

In most case he should not ask you to show but becouse chimp dumping in tournament are a problem the table need to be able to see if this is happening.

Hellmuth and Bellande got into an argument about this on PAD last week (might have been re-reuns, w/e). Hellmuth saiys it's ettiquette, Bellande says he doesn't have to show if opponent mucks.I agree with Bellande, but I could be wrong. Hell, if the guy mucks, then you win the pot, right? 'Nuff said.