If There Is A God...

[Loismustdie 0]

A professor I took a religions of Western Civilizations course from always cited the story of Job as an anomaly within the Christian religion. Prior to the Old Testament, most (if not all) gods had very human like traits. The most well known example would be to look at the way the Greek gods supposedly acted; much like humans, acting vainly, acting with lust, acting with jealousy, and so forth. Then you get to the Old Testament and you are given this omnipotent singular god, who is all knowing and all powerful, and acts nothing like a 'human'. Except for this whole mess with Job...all of a sudden this omnipotent god acts with the pettiness and cruelness that the ancient gods often did.

He allowed Job to be tested. None of the things that happened to Job were Gods doing, it was Satan. Basically God told Satan,"Look, do as you please, but you can't kill him, and I am telling you he will not forsake me." I imagine that God takes that chance with christians everyday. How does one find out what they are made of if they are protected 24-7? What kind of poker player would you be if you were guaranteed you would make the nuts everytime you played a pot? Edit: A rich one, but not a very good one.

[Loismustdie 0]

His children are really one of the most unjust parts... they have to die to test Job's faith, so God can win a bet with Satan? That's utter bs.

Well, no. Satan wanted to win the bet- Satan whacked the kids. At any point he could have won Jobs heart. God didn't do any of it, he just allowed Satan too. See above post why that makes sense.

[PMJackson21 0]

He allowed Job to be tested. None of the things that happened to Job were Gods doing, it was Satan. Basically God told Satan,"Look, do as you please, but you can't kill him, and I am telling you he will not forsake me." I imagine that God takes that chance with christians everyday. How does one find out what they are made of if they are protected 24-7? What kind of poker player would you be if you were guaranteed you would make the nuts everytime you played a pot?Edit: A rich one, but not a very good one.

LOL, beat me to it with the edit. A successful one? :)So to me that would be like a husband letting some dude get his wife drunk, drugged up, whatever it takes to get her going, etc and expect her not to cheat.I'm a nit, I would never play a hand that LAG.

[Loismustdie 0]

LOL, beat me to it with the edit. A successful one? :)So to me that would be like a husband letting some dude get his wife drunk, drugged up, whatever it takes to get her going, etc and expect her not to cheat.I'm a nit, I would never play a hand that LAG.

Well, think about it from this angle as well: God was proud of Job, he loved Job very much. Imagine you are a father/trainer, and your child is a boxer. Do you take pride in your sons ability and believe in him or do you not let him fight anyone good? Where is the victory in that? I see where people are coming from but the value in what happened to Job was tremendous- imagine the rest of Jobs life, knowing that he had faced the worst and beat it down. Cereal soggy? Big deal. Target ad missing out of Sundays paper? Dog died? Whatever, man. Cakewalk. There would not be a hard time he could not handle. So, through Satans lack of foresight he helped tell one of the greatest stories ever about mans relationship to God and what faith can do.

[brvheart 1,751]

Well, think about it from this angle as well: God was proud of Job, he loved Job very much. Imagine you are a father/trainer, and your child is a boxer. Do you take pride in your sons ability and believe in him or do you not let him fight anyone good? Where is the victory in that? I see where people are coming from but the value in what happened to Job was tremendous- imagine the rest of Jobs life, knowing that he had faced the worst and beat it down. Cereal soggy? Big deal. Target ad missing out of Sundays paper? Dog died? Whatever, man. Cakewalk. There would not be a hard time he could not handle. So, through Satans lack of foresight he helped tell one of the greatest stories ever about mans relationship to God and what faith can do.

nice.

[PMJackson21 0]

Well, think about it from this angle as well: God was proud of Job, he loved Job very much. Imagine you are a father/trainer, and your child is a boxer. Do you take pride in your sons ability and believe in him or do you not let him fight anyone good? Where is the victory in that? I see where people are coming from but the value in what happened to Job was tremendous- imagine the rest of Jobs life, knowing that he had faced the worst and beat it down. Cereal soggy? Big deal. Target ad missing out of Sundays paper? Dog died? Whatever, man. Cakewalk. There would not be a hard time he could not handle. So, through Satans lack of foresight he helped tell one of the greatest stories ever about mans relationship to God and what faith can do.

No I wouldn't let my son fight Mike Tyson in his hey day, or Satan from South Park. I'd expect my son to be up against people similar in age, weight, skills, etc. Job vs Satan is not really a fair fight.I imagine the rest of his life he missed his children.

[brvheart 1,751]

No I wouldn't let my son fight Mike Tyson in his hey day, or Satan from South Park. I'd expect my son to be up against people similar in age, weight, skills, etc. Job vs Satan is not really a fair fight.

This can't be true because Job won.

I imagine the rest of his life he missed his children.

This is true.

[PMJackson21 0]

This can't be true because Job won.

Well, the Black Knight technically won his fight vs King Arthur too because King Arthur got tired of cutting him up and left.

[brvheart 1,751]

Well, the Black Knight technically won his fight vs King Arthur too because King Arthur got tired of cutting him up and left.

touche

[Loismustdie 0]

No I wouldn't let my son fight Mike Tyson in his hey day, or Satan from South Park. I'd expect my son to be up against people similar in age, weight, skills, etc. Job vs Satan is not really a fair fight.I imagine the rest of his life he missed his children.

Well, remember there was a ground rule. Satan could not kill him. As long as he was not dead God knew Job wouldn't give, not to mention his death would prove nothing. This wasn't about martyrdom it was about personal victory over life.

[Loismustdie 0]

No I wouldn't let my son fight Mike Tyson in his hey day, or Satan from South Park. I'd expect my son to be up against people similar in age, weight, skills, etc. Job vs Satan is not really a fair fight.I imagine the rest of his life he missed his children.

Not a day goes by while I am not being faithful to God that I do not worry and pray for the safety of my daughter and family. I fear the idea that God would use my family to get to me, I just hope and pray that if he were to punish me that he does just that, punish ME. I would rather die than to see my family go through pain. Sigh...... a little peek into the mind of Lois. I really am close to going back. There have been some things, breakthroughs in my my own life recently that remind me of my roots in God. We will see where it takes me.

[nhlfan 0]

Ummm...wow.Take a picture: I agree with you somewhat.(that hurt)I also had many of these thoughts when my study group went over this book. On a simpler scale...we determined that although it appeared God was toyinh with Job... it was in fact the ultimate test of faith. Now... perhaps the stakes should have been higher... like this perhaps:God: Do what you want to Job and if he remains faithful to me... you leave forever.Satan: I'm gonna need oddsIn my personal life...I reflect on the book of Job when things don't go my way or in my favor. I look at people that are roofing for a living in the 105 degree temperatures...knowing they arn't making 1/10th of what I make and are working WAY harder and I thank God that I have what I do.To the people that feel God owes you a perfect life and shouldn't allow death and suffering.... I give you this.Say you allow a person to come into your house to live. You say he can have full run of the house...rent free and the refrigerator will always be stocked with all his favorite foods and drinks. Swim in the pool, watch the HDTV big screen and just enjoy the house...all for free. All I ask is that you don't go into my closet.One day you decide to go in my closet and take my wallet. Soooo...I ask you to leave the house. Now you're on the outside and see the nice house on the hill where you once had everything and you curse the guy in there. "Why does he get to live in that nice house and I have to now work hard to make money and pay rent. Why do I have to buy my own groceries now while he sits up there in that big nice house. Why doesn't he let me back in?"Truth is...Life's not fair.

That's the thing, I didn't do it, my ancestors did. Why is all of mankind being punished forever for that act? It's all a lie.

[Balloon guy 158]

I bet on BBQ nights in Heaven, everyone sitting around talking war stories how tough they had it on earth, whenever Job shows up they all shut their mouth and change the subject.Except for Mechak, Benak and Abendigo.

[crowTrobot 2]

It's kind of like the American Military, you can pretend you can toy with it, but you better respect that it has the power to destroy you with little effort.

tell that to china

[HollywoodAFD 0]

That's the thing, I didn't do it, my ancestors did. Why is all of mankind being punished forever for that act? It's all a lie.

Again... nobody said life was fair. If you believe in the Bible... that's the reason. If you don't...develop your own theories.

[SuitedAces21 2,721]

Because as much as there is a God there is also Satan, and on earth for lack of better terms he rules. He kicks ass, this is his stomping grounds. Give credit where credit is due.

I hate this argument. The devil has always been a way for people to pawn their actions off on some evil being. "The devil made me do it!" is a crock of shit.There is suffering in the world because there is free will. And if you believe in God you believe that God gave us free will. And without free will our existence here would be meaningless. If no one had a choice but to follow God, then what exactly would be the point? But if we are given an oppurtunity, here on earth, to live and love and find God. To journey back to him or journey to truly find him, then our free will is the greatest gift of all. And only by propely using it, can we earn the right to spend eternity with God, in whatever form of existence that is. Now do I believe in God? Im not sure. I want to. I so very much want to. Im just not sure yet.

[HollywoodAFD 0]

I hate this argument. The devil has always been a way for people to pawn their actions off on some evil being. "The devil made me do it!" is a crock of shit.There is suffering in the world because there is free will. And if you believe in God you believe that God gave us free will. And without free will our existence here would be meaningless. If no one had a choice but to follow God, then what exactly would be the point? But if we are given an oppurtunity, here on earth, to live and love and find God. To journey back to him or journey to truly find him, then our free will is the greatest gift of all. And only by propely using it, can we earn the right to spend eternity with God, in whatever form of existence that is. Now do I believe in God? Im not sure. I want to. I so very much want to. Im just not sure yet.

Wow... a side of you I've never seen.Hacked account?

[SuitedAces21 2,721]

Wow... a side of you I've never seen.Hacked account?

nope. i just dont feel like talking serious very often. it rarely leads anywhere in real life, let alone on here.

[Loismustdie 0]

I hate this argument. The devil has always been a way for people to pawn their actions off on some evil being. "The devil made me do it!" is a crock of shit.There is suffering in the world because there is free will. And if you believe in God you believe that God gave us free will. And without free will our existence here would be meaningless. If no one had a choice but to follow God, then what exactly would be the point? But if we are given an opportunity, here on earth, to live and love and find God. To journey back to him or journey to truly find him, then our free will is the greatest gift of all. And only by properly using it, can we earn the right to spend eternity with God, in whatever form of existence that is. Now do I believe in God? Im not sure. I want to. I so very much want to. Im just not sure yet.

A tad simplistic but I agree with you on the whole. The problem is this- not everybody wants to serve God. Some want to serve something else. The devil makes very few people do anything, I will tip my hat to those who are possessed and give them there due- they most definitely do what the devil tells them to. Now, that being said, evil people who serve him do his bidding indirectly, the latest one I can think of was that a-hole who tied his kid to a tree 2 nights in a row. Hell, he may have a devil, who knows? There are many things that people do that are not of God, and if it's not of God, it's of who? My argument goes alot deeper than the devil made me do it. My point is, that, too often, the finger is pointed at God when it's not his issue. God does not control all things, and promises us nothing if we don't serve him. I mean, seriously- nothing. But does that keep unbelievers fron accusing him of there problems? No.

[Balloon guy 158]

tell that to china

Only place the Chinese military could defeat America is on Chinese soil and maybe Tiawan.They are not in the same league on projection of strength.In a decade, I may reconsider.We've been in the long distance war thing for too long.And they always have to keep troops back to protect about a million miles of border with Russia

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I bet on BBQ nights in Heaven, everyone sitting around talking war stories how tough they had it on earth, whenever Job shows up they all shut their mouth and change the subject.Except for Mechak, Benak and Abendigo.

You're going to get owned in BBQ in Heaven suffering brag-a-thons, BG. I don't think complaining about how much in taxes you had to pay under Obama is going to hold much traction when you're sitting around Saints and martyrs. Though it should be a funny story explaining how you got the camel through the needle's eye