If There Is A God...

[Mercury69 3]

Why all the suffering and torment and hurt and pain and death and wrondoing and money held by retards which is used for more harm?Seriously...you gotta be kidding me. If there is a God, all we are is some sort of grotesque experiment, like frying ants with a magnifying glass. Set the control to "self-destruct" and see how long it takes the human idiots to blow this paradise up.And you Creationists are ****ing retards. Yes, I hate life right now and don't tell me salvation is going to fix everything...

[Loismustdie 0]

Why all the suffering and torment and hurt and pain and death and wrondoing and money held by retards which is used for more harm?Seriously...you gotta be kidding me. If there is a God, all we are is some sort of grotesque experiment, like frying ants with a magnifying glass. Set the control to "self-destruct" and see how long it takes the human idiots to blow this paradise up.And you Creationists are ****ing retards. Yes, I hate life right now and don't tell me salvation is going to fix everything...

Because as much as there is a God there is also Satan, and on earth for lack of better terms he rules. He kicks ass, this is his stomping grounds. Give credit where credit is due.

[Sal Paradise 57]

so is god or satan responsible for stupid rich people?

[ricardob 0]

so is god or satan responsible for stupid rich people?

god is. Satan is responsible for incredibly inteligent poor people.Have you ever seen "Good Will Hunting"...satan's work.MTV movie awards...god's work.Life's good.

[Sal Paradise 57]

god is. Satan is responsible for incredibly inteligent poor people.Have you ever seen "Good Will Hunting"...satan's work.MTV movie awards...god's work.Life's good.

well damn! I'm a satanist!

[solderz 0]

God=Suffering

[Loismustdie 0]

God=Suffering

Joke account.

[HollywoodAFD 0]

Why all the suffering and torment and hurt and pain and death and wrondoing and money held by retards which is used for more harm?Seriously...you gotta be kidding me. If there is a God, all we are is some sort of grotesque experiment, like frying ants with a magnifying glass. Set the control to "self-destruct" and see how long it takes the human idiots to blow this paradise up.And you Creationists are ****ing retards. Yes, I hate life right now and don't tell me salvation is going to fix everything...

Read the book of JOBWhen things are bad...some people want to blame God. "Why did I have a flat tire and now I'm late for work"... rather than wake up in the morning and thank God that you are alive. Thank God that you had a roof over your head last night while you slept. Thank God that you are not starving to death and dieing of thirst. Thank God for all the things you do have. It's human nature to want to blame something or somebody for the bad things and not look at the good things.Oh..... and what Lois said.

[KramitDaToad 0]

Because as much as there is a God there is also Satan

That would be not at all then?

[SlapStick 0]

Read the book of JOBWhen things are bad...some people want to blame God. "Why did I have a flat tire and now I'm late for work"... rather than wake up in the morning and thank God that you are alive. Thank God that you had a roof over your head last night while you slept. Thank God that you are not starving to death and dieing of thirst. Thank God for all the things you do have. It's human nature to want to blame something or somebody for the bad things and not look at the good things.Oh..... and what Lois said.

so thank god you're not one of his other creations

[nhlfan 0]

When I ask this questions, I always get the "God gave man the gift of free will" line, which is such crap. When someone dies you always get the "there in a better place" b.s. What kind of a God lets a 2 year old get cancer and then lets him suffer for a year through chemo and then die. What kind of god lets women get pregnent 6 times by 6 different men and then leaved them all alone to go out and smoke crack. What kind of God lets children all over the world starve to death, to basically be born, suffer for 10 years, and then die. I find it hard to beleive there is a God that loves us out there, if he did, why would he allow these things to happen.

[HollywoodAFD 0]

When I ask this questions, I always get the "God gave man the gift of free will" line, which is such crap. When someone dies you always get the "there in a better place" b.s. What kind of a God lets a 2 year old get cancer and then lets him suffer for a year through chemo and then die. What kind of god lets women get pregnent 6 times by 6 different men and then leaved them all alone to go out and smoke crack. What kind of God lets children all over the world starve to death, to basically be born, suffer for 10 years, and then die. I find it hard to beleive there is a God that loves us out there, if he did, why would he allow these things to happen.

You should read the bible...possibly in a study group with people that have read it a lot. It's not an easy read nor is it easy to understand.We had Eden...total bliss... and we blew it. God never promised the this place would be without suffering. For some reason we feel that if God is so powerful we should all be disease free and never suffer. He gave us that once. Seriously... read JOB.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I'm not saying this to flame you, Hollywood, I'm addressing the book of job directly, and am going to address it seriously. I personally find it one of the most disturbing and interesting books in the entire bible, and the exact book that I can point to as an excellent reason not to be a Jew or Christian, because their god is cruel, degenerate and arbitrary. It starts off with showing job, the epitome of virtue. He, of all men on earth, loves God the most, serves god the best. So how does God repay him? Well, apparently God is a degenerate gambler, because while in heaven, he invites Satan over to hang out, and they talk about Job, God saying that he is his best and brightest and that he would never curse him. Well, Satan takes that challenge, saying that he can get Job to curse god. God accepts the bet, and allows Satan to do anything he wants to Job, just not hurt him.So Satan destroys Jobs life, destroys his vast property, his livestock, he slaughters his children leaving him no heirs, his servants, his house. He leaves job with nothing. But job won't curse god. So Satan, a little pissed, says " Okay, double or nothing.. let me hurt his body" And God accepts, handing Job into torture but forbidding Satan from killing him. So Satan like covers Job in painful boils ( I've had boils on my ass before, and I can tell you how fcking awful it is.) So Job just rolls around in the dirt and ashes. Then, then there are a series of speeches, some from Job's friends, condemning him as a sinner, then Job's lament, saying that he is not a sinner, and that he in no way deserves the treatment. He doesn't curse god for doing it, but he cries at the injustice of it all.So then God shows up to set Job straight, and tells him basically that Job can't possibly understand what it's like to be god, that he's responsible for so much that it's beyond Job's understanding. And even if job could understand it, God is God, he's the super king of the world, and Job is a servant, and as such has no right or reason to question his motives. So since Job is a simple minded servant, he should just take the boils and like itEventually, Job gets restored to wealth and status, and lives happily ever after.I find the book of Job extremely disturbing because job was God's most faithful servant, his best. And because he was best, he got severely punished. If he had been not quite as good of servant, he would never have gotten boils, his innocent children ( whom God baically saw as Job's proprety) wouldn't have been destroyed. This is a sadistic and horrible thing to do. The god portrayed in Job is a cruel, mean god. Because the punishment came from Satan, doesn't mean God's absolved, he's the one who took the bet, he's the one who OK'd Satan's actions. And then, when Job calls God on his actions, says that it's injust, God says " Listen, buddy, you can't possibly understand the stuff I got going on." What couldn't he understand, exactly? That God likes to gamble with Satan with the lives of his most faithful servant? Oh, I think Job would have understood it just fine, but he might have cursed God for it. I think Job is an absolute masochistic fool. I think it is absurd to continue to praise and refuse to curse a God that would give you up to Satan, for no reason other than he likes to gamble. I think it's this model of blind obedience to authority that makes religions so dangerous to begin withThe actions of God in Job are not the actions of a just God, but a cruel, unjust one. Fortunately, the book of Job, within itself, has a way of addressing my skepticism of God's intention, because. I mean.. I'm just a simple caveman, and God's ways are mysterious to me.

[brvheart 1,752]

masochistic fool.

Wait, I thought masochism was a good thing.... ps. I liked your post and understand where you're coming from.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Wait, I thought masochism was a good thing....

It's not really a good thing or a bad thing, it's just a thing. The "fool" part is the bad thing.

[brvheart 1,752]

It's not really a good thing or a bad thing, it's just a thing. The "fool" part is the bad thing.

oh.

[PMJackson21 0]

The actions of God in Job are not the actions of a just God, but a cruel, unjust one. Fortunately, the book of Job, within itself, has a way of addressing my skepticism of God's intention, because. I mean.. I'm just a simple caveman, and God's ways are mysterious to me.

A professor I took a religions of Western Civilizations course from always cited the story of Job as an anomaly within the Christian religion. Prior to the Old Testament, most (if not all) gods had very human like traits. The most well known example would be to look at the way the Greek gods supposedly acted; much like humans, acting vainly, acting with lust, acting with jealousy, and so forth. Then you get to the Old Testament and you are given this omnipotent singular god, who is all knowing and all powerful, and acts nothing like a 'human'. Except for this whole mess with Job...all of a sudden this omnipotent god acts with the pettiness and cruelness that the ancient gods often did.

[CaneBrain 95]

I'm not saying this to flame you, Hollywood, I'm addressing the book of job directly, and am going to address it seriously. I personally find it one of the most disturbing and interesting books in the entire bible, and the exact book that I can point to as an excellent reason not to be a Jew or Christian, because their god is cruel, degenerate and arbitrary. It starts off with showing job, the epitome of virtue. He, of all men on earth, loves God the most, serves god the best. So how does God repay him? Well, apparently God is a degenerate gambler, because while in heaven, he invites Satan over to hang out, and they talk about Job, God saying that he is his best and brightest and that he would never curse him. Well, Satan takes that challenge, saying that he can get Job to curse god. God accepts the bet, and allows Satan to do anything he wants to Job, just not hurt him.So Satan destroys Jobs life, destroys his vast property, his livestock, he slaughters his children leaving him no heirs, his servants, his house. He leaves job with nothing. But job won't curse god. So Satan, a little pissed, says " Okay, double or nothing.. let me hurt his body" And God accepts, handing Job into torture but forbidding Satan from killing him. So Satan like covers Job in painful boils ( I've had boils on my ass before, and I can tell you how fcking awful it is.) So Job just rolls around in the dirt and ashes. Then, then there are a series of speeches, some from Job's friends, condemning him as a sinner, then Job's lament, saying that he is not a sinner, and that he in no way deserves the treatment. He doesn't curse god for doing it, but he cries at the injustice of it all.So then God shows up to set Job straight, and tells him basically that Job can't possibly understand what it's like to be god, that he's responsible for so much that it's beyond Job's understanding. And even if job could understand it, God is God, he's the super king of the world, and Job is a servant, and as such has no right or reason to question his motives. So since Job is a simple minded servant, he should just take the boils and like itEventually, Job gets restored to wealth and status, and lives happily ever after.I find the book of Job extremely disturbing because job was God's most faithful servant, his best. And because he was best, he got severely punished. If he had been not quite as good of servant, he would never have gotten boils, his innocent children ( whom God baically saw as Job's proprety) wouldn't have been destroyed. This is a sadistic and horrible thing to do. The god portrayed in Job is a cruel, mean god. Because the punishment came from Satan, doesn't mean God's absolved, he's the one who took the bet, he's the one who OK'd Satan's actions. And then, when Job calls God on his actions, says that it's injust, God says " Listen, buddy, you can't possibly understand the stuff I got going on." What couldn't he understand, exactly? That God likes to gamble with Satan with the lives of his most faithful servant? Oh, I think Job would have understood it just fine, but he might have cursed God for it. I think Job is an absolute masochistic fool. I think it is absurd to continue to praise and refuse to curse a God that would give you up to Satan, for no reason other than he likes to gamble. I think it's this model of blind obedience to authority that makes religions so dangerous to begin withThe actions of God in Job are not the actions of a just God, but a cruel, unjust one. Fortunately, the book of Job, within itself, has a way of addressing my skepticism of God's intention, because. I mean.. I'm just a simple caveman, and God's ways are mysterious to me.

well said. As a former Jew who now happily munches down shrimp and pork, I heartily agree. The god from the Old Testament is a ginormous prick.

[HollywoodAFD 0]

I'm not saying this to flame you, Hollywood, I'm addressing the book of job directly, and am going to address it seriously. I personally find it one of the most disturbing and interesting books in the entire bible, and the exact book that I can point to as an excellent reason not to be a Jew or Christian, because their god is cruel, degenerate and arbitrary. It starts off with showing job, the epitome of virtue. He, of all men on earth, loves God the most, serves god the best. So how does God repay him? Well, apparently God is a degenerate gambler, because while in heaven, he invites Satan over to hang out, and they talk about Job, God saying that he is his best and brightest and that he would never curse him. Well, Satan takes that challenge, saying that he can get Job to curse god. God accepts the bet, and allows Satan to do anything he wants to Job, just not hurt him.So Satan destroys Jobs life, destroys his vast property, his livestock, he slaughters his children leaving him no heirs, his servants, his house. He leaves job with nothing. But job won't curse god. So Satan, a little pissed, says " Okay, double or nothing.. let me hurt his body" And God accepts, handing Job into torture but forbidding Satan from killing him. So Satan like covers Job in painful boils ( I've had boils on my ass before, and I can tell you how fcking awful it is.) So Job just rolls around in the dirt and ashes. Then, then there are a series of speeches, some from Job's friends, condemning him as a sinner, then Job's lament, saying that he is not a sinner, and that he in no way deserves the treatment. He doesn't curse god for doing it, but he cries at the injustice of it all.So then God shows up to set Job straight, and tells him basically that Job can't possibly understand what it's like to be god, that he's responsible for so much that it's beyond Job's understanding. And even if job could understand it, God is God, he's the super king of the world, and Job is a servant, and as such has no right or reason to question his motives. So since Job is a simple minded servant, he should just take the boils and like itEventually, Job gets restored to wealth and status, and lives happily ever after.I find the book of Job extremely disturbing because job was God's most faithful servant, his best. And because he was best, he got severely punished. If he had been not quite as good of servant, he would never have gotten boils, his innocent children ( whom God baically saw as Job's proprety) wouldn't have been destroyed. This is a sadistic and horrible thing to do. The god portrayed in Job is a cruel, mean god. Because the punishment came from Satan, doesn't mean God's absolved, he's the one who took the bet, he's the one who OK'd Satan's actions. And then, when Job calls God on his actions, says that it's injust, God says " Listen, buddy, you can't possibly understand the stuff I got going on." What couldn't he understand, exactly? That God likes to gamble with Satan with the lives of his most faithful servant? Oh, I think Job would have understood it just fine, but he might have cursed God for it. I think Job is an absolute masochistic fool. I think it is absurd to continue to praise and refuse to curse a God that would give you up to Satan, for no reason other than he likes to gamble. I think it's this model of blind obedience to authority that makes religions so dangerous to begin withThe actions of God in Job are not the actions of a just God, but a cruel, unjust one. Fortunately, the book of Job, within itself, has a way of addressing my skepticism of God's intention, because. I mean.. I'm just a simple caveman, and God's ways are mysterious to me.

Ummm...wow.Take a picture: I agree with you somewhat.(that hurt)I also had many of these thoughts when my study group went over this book. On a simpler scale...we determined that although it appeared God was toyinh with Job... it was in fact the ultimate test of faith. Now... perhaps the stakes should have been higher... like this perhaps:God: Do what you want to Job and if he remains faithful to me... you leave forever.Satan: I'm gonna need oddsIn my personal life...I reflect on the book of Job when things don't go my way or in my favor. I look at people that are roofing for a living in the 105 degree temperatures...knowing they arn't making 1/10th of what I make and are working WAY harder and I thank God that I have what I do.To the people that feel God owes you a perfect life and shouldn't allow death and suffering.... I give you this.Say you allow a person to come into your house to live. You say he can have full run of the house...rent free and the refrigerator will always be stocked with all his favorite foods and drinks. Swim in the pool, watch the HDTV big screen and just enjoy the house...all for free. All I ask is that you don't go into my closet.One day you decide to go in my closet and take my wallet. Soooo...I ask you to leave the house. Now you're on the outside and see the nice house on the hill where you once had everything and you curse the guy in there. "Why does he get to live in that nice house and I have to now work hard to make money and pay rent. Why do I have to buy my own groceries now while he sits up there in that big nice house. Why doesn't he let me back in?"Truth is...Life's not fair.

[Balloon guy 158]

. I personally find it one of the most disturbing and interesting books in the entire bible, and the exact book that I can point to as an excellent reason not to be a Jew or Christian, because their god is cruel, degenerate and arbitrary. The actions of God in Job are not the actions of a just God, but a cruel, unjust one. Fortunately, the book of Job, within itself, has a way of addressing my skepticism of God's intention, because. I mean.. I'm just a simple caveman, and God's ways are mysterious to me.

I have always looked at the book of Job as a reminder that God is ultimately above us, and we have no claim to His Love, Grace or Forgiveness. It's kind of like the American Military, you can pretend you can toy with it, but you better respect that it has the power to destroy you with little effort.There is also the argument that God had granted to Abraham all the land he walked on. The Satan comes along and says, I've been walking all over the earth. So in effect he is trying to say to God that he rules the earth. So God points to Job to be his champion and prove to Satan that the earth is not his.Of course we want to argue that a 'loving God' would never let anything bad happen to anyone. But carried to it's logical conclusion shows why this can't be true. Of course bad things happen, like you put your hand on a stove etc.Also you are judging this story by the timeline of a life - 80+ years.Compare that story to eternity, and see that the tiny amount of suffering is offset by an unimaginable amount of joy, it becomes less severe.For the non-believer, this is the best it will ever be.For the Christian, this is the worst.For the record, I have always had a problem with the children of Job, they got wacked. Job just had a bad month.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

For the record, I have always had a problem with the children of Job, they got wacked. Job just had a bad month.

His children are really one of the most unjust parts... they have to die to test Job's faith, so God can win a bet with Satan? That's utter bs.

[CaneBrain 95]

His children are really one of the most unjust parts... they have to die to test Job's faith, so God can win a bet with Satan? That's utter bs.

although on the plus side it shows that god approves of gambling.....

[vbnautilus 48]

Of course we want to argue that a 'loving God' would never let anything bad happen to anyone. But carried to it's logical conclusion shows why this can't be true. Of course bad things happen, like you put your hand on a stove etc.

Sure, but I think what people find distasteful is that those bad things are intentionally inflicted by god just to prove a point. To me, this is only a problem if you take the story literally. As mythology it makes the point that we all know from poker, you focus on making the right decisions and those decisions are right even if sometimes they lead to negative consequences. You have to be good in order to be good, not to enjoy the riches that result. You don't become a bad guy just because the world is bad to you, you stay good despite the crap that happens to you. You take the punches like mohammed-ali against forman (or rocky against clubber lang). I think the fundamental error of modern religion is to treat mythology (one of the most effective ways humankind has developed for transmitting the deep truths of our world) as history.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Sure, but I think what people find distasteful is that those bad things are intentionally inflicted by god just to prove a point. To me, this is only a problem if you take the story literally. As mythology it makes the point that we all know from poker, you focus on making the right decisions and those decisions are right even if sometimes they lead to negative consequences. You have to be good in order to be good, not to enjoy the riches that result. You don't become a bad guy just because the world is bad to you, you stay good despite the crap that happens to you. You take the punches like mohammed-ali against forman (or rocky against clubber lang). I think the fundamental error of modern religion is to treat mythology (one of the most effective ways humankind has developed for transmitting the deep truths of our world) as history.

I think this is 100 percent correct. I love the book of Job, as a piece of literature and mythology. I think it gives an interesting glimpse into the psychology of ancient jewish religion. And from a structure standpoint, it fantastic.

[Balloon guy 158]

Sure, but I think what people find distasteful is that those bad things are intentionally inflicted by god just to prove a point. To me, this is only a problem if you take the story literally. As mythology it makes the point that we all know from poker, you focus on making the right decisions and those decisions are right even if sometimes they lead to negative consequences. You have to be good in order to be good, not to enjoy the riches that result. You don't become a bad guy just because the world is bad to you, you stay good despite the crap that happens to you. You take the punches like mohammed-ali against forman (or rocky against clubber lang). I think the fundamental error of modern religion is to treat mythology (one of the most effective ways humankind has developed for transmitting the deep truths of our world) as history.

But God didn't inflict any of those things, He only removed His protection and allowed these things to happen.Maybe a nitty point, but does also show that without God's protection, life sucks. There is not one of the things that happened to Job that hasn't happened to others, Job just got it while it was being recorded for prosperity.If this was the only book explaining God's character, then I can agree that the conclusion is very negative. But it isn't, it's one of many, they all weave together to paint the picture of a complex character. A God of mercy, and vengence and peace and care and anger and fear. He's not a big one of us.And if God made us, who are we to question His actions? Which is a central point God lays on Job after Job starts whining near the end. The difference is that Job's friends who all told Job why they understood God well enough to be able to point to Job's flaws and say it was his fault, God really laid down the ban hammer on his friends and basically told them to beg Job to pray for them, because He wasn't in the listening mood.Then it was Job's turn, and God let him whine for a while, guess he earned the right. But God's answer wasn't one that fits our ideas of what a 'loving God' would say. God told Job he was not in the position to question Him.Not a wonderful answer, but also truth. How can the created beings place demands on the Creator to explain His actions?