Serious Thread, Seriously, All Opinions Must Be Serious.

[strategy 4]

I must be super tired because I don't know if you're being serious or ripping on me.

yeah, I was ripping on you. ron and lois are two good people to listen to on this one.

Lol. Is that a real word, jewswindle?

no, but it absolutely should be.I don't know much about relationships, but I'm gonna echo ron's comments about dedicating yourself to serving your wife. I have an uncle trying to run that whole gameplan with a his wife... she and her illegitimate one night stand daughter have milked him out of hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years. he'll never see the light of day again, and it's sad to see.

[Ron_Mexico 4,219]

don't hold your breath and don't hold your breath

[brvheart 1,752]

yeah, I was ripping on you. ron and lois are two good people to listen to on this one.no, but it absolutely should be.I don't know much about relationships, but I'm gonna echo ron's comments about dedicating yourself to serving your wife. I have an uncle trying to run that whole gameplan with a his wife... she and her illegitimate one night stand daughter have milked him out of hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years. he'll never see the light of day again, and it's sad to see.

I readily admit that Lois is the expert and I'll probably close the money market account I just opened in favor of this 2% Schwab account. It just has to be an account that I can get money out of immediately, as in, within a few hours. At some point before next June, I'm going to have 48,000 in this account, but it needs to be available instantly, not 2 or 3 business days.I also agree with you about the husband wife relationship. I do NOT think this is even close to a good idea outside of a Bible based marriage. That is what makes Lois' situation that much worse, only one person is Bible based.You guys need to understand that I was talking to Lois and Lois only. I definitely don't think that what I said applies to anyone else.

[brvheart 1,752]

Verse from I Corinthians

I don't want to get into a huge Biblical discussion in Lois' thread, but I don't think that verse means what you think it means. We can talk about it in another thread if you care to talk about it.

[LadyGrey 6]

Lois, what are the good things about your wife? All you've said in this thread is bad about her, and then you say you're not really considering a divorce. Why not? What are her redeeming qualities?In short, so far from reading this thread I do think it is selfish of you to spend money frivolously just because you don't get stressed about money. Most people do worry about finance and clearly your wife does, you ought to respect that and exercise a little self control (and I don't mean deny yourself everything, just be reasonable about it). You said you paid off 20-25% of the debts last year, and I am curious as to where these debts came from. Were they run up jointly or more by you or more by her? That makes a big difference to how I view the situation.

[Sal Paradise 57]

Obviously I wasn't saying that every sinner commits suicide. You're the one being stupid. But we'll leave this for another day when you're not in such a bad mood.This illistrates exactly my point much better than I ever could. "Ok, I'll say sorry Mom, but Timmy has to say sorry too! (..and I'm not really sorry)" Your entire attitude is, "What about me?". Don't worry about the speck in her eye, worry about the LOG in your eye.LOLThis is wrong, but you're not ready to talk obviously. (Dr. Laura FTW) Also, I could care less how she behaves. You shouldn't have married her then. The day you got married, what did you use for your vows? Hopefully you had crickets chirping your vows.I would think it would be pretty easy, even in your current state of mind, to see that you are saying.... "Yes I have done a bunch wrong and I should apologize... but THERE ARE TWO SIDES!! SHE'S A BITCH!! SHE ALWAYS HAS BEEN!! .... and God says I can walk away." NOPE. Old Testament said that, not New Testament. Even Sal, as dumb as he is, could see as clear as day that the New Testament says don't do it.Did you listen to the sermon link? I would like your opinion on it.

I guess there's nothing in the bible about not being a total asshole.Lois: do you have a pastor/preacher/whatever that knows both of you? I would think that would be a good person for you to talk to about the situation. seems to me it would be the best bet to get an outside perspective that knows both of you, at least a little, but also knows where you're coming from with being a christian and whatnot. there's a lot of good relationship advice in this thread (minus the archaic "serve your wife no matter what" silliness), but without personal knowledge of both people, I don't think anybody can really get into the meat of the situation to help. might be something to think about.

[CaneBrain 95]

Lois, what are the good things about your wife? All you've said in this thread is bad about her, and then you say you're not really considering a divorce. Why not? What are her redeeming qualities?In short, so far from reading this thread I do think it is selfish of you to spend money frivolously just because you don't get stressed about money. Most people do worry about finance and clearly your wife does, you ought to respect that and exercise a little self control (and I don't mean deny yourself everything, just be reasonable about it). You said you paid off 20-25% of the debts last year, and I am curious as to where these debts came from. Were they run up jointly or more by you or more by her? That makes a big difference to how I view the situation.

See bold. The whole story is right there.Lois, we disagree on a lot of stuff and you probably are not going to agree with this but I say it becuase it needs to be said:You dont like your wife. Period. You resent her lack of faith, you resent how unaffectionate she is, you resent how she withholds sex, you resent how she tells you what to do with money even though you are the one working your butt off to pay off the debt.Sure, you come off as selfish at times in this thread. Humans are selfish sometimes. And I am sure she has her selfish points too (she is a woman after all, hiyooooo!). But, what is more clear is that you just dont like her anymore. You may still love her but you don't like her. And, frankly, I would not put up with my wife hitting me more than once. That is messed up.Ignore the bible for a moment. Do you still enjoy being with your wife? If the answer is no, then you are doing yourself and her a huge disservice by continuing with a farce. Get some counselling, see how receptive she is to your concerns about affection/sex/money/religion/etc. If you don't like the answers, then get out.Oh, and Brvheart would make a Jewish girl really happy.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

I don't want to get into a huge Biblical discussion in Lois' thread, but I don't think that verse means what you think it means. We can talk about it in another thread if you care to talk about it.

I think it means a bunch of yammering from the person who knew the very least about anything Jesus had ever said (given that they never met and spoke different languages), but shaped the new faith in ways that Jesus never would have wanted it to go. Plus, I think it's in a book that's mostly a contradictory mish-mash of tribal governance and Bronze Age superstition. So, no, I'm pretty sure you DON'T think it means what I think it means.For context, here's much of the chapter:

1 Corinthians 7 1Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. 3Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. 4The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. 5Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. 6But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment. 7For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. 8I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. 9But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. 10And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: 11But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. 12But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. 13And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 15But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 16For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife? 17But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches. 18Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised.. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. 19Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 20Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called. 21Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. 22For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. 23Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. 24Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God. 25Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful. 26I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be. 27Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. 28But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you. 29But this I say, brethren, the time is short

"let him not become uncircumcised." Yeah, 'cause that would be quite a trick. How do believers not see the howlers like this?"But this I say, brethren, the time is short." He's referring to the time when Jesus comes back from the dead, because he also addresses either this congregation or another about why some of them had died before Christ's return, a turn of events that obviously confused and distressed them. [Little wonder: Jesus has said of the end of days, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Matt. 24:34; "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." Mark 13:30; and "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." Luke 21:32. Interesting side note: all three gospels that were written both close in time to one another and relatively close in time to Jesus' life contain this quote. John, which was written somewhere around 65 years later, does not contain it. A touch of judicious editing, seeing as they were already a couple of generations removed and it hadn't happened???]But hey, what's being wrong by about 2,000 years and counting among believers?Anyway, all that aside, this isn't about the bible. It's about Lois and his wife. You've given your advice, I've given mine, so let's leave it at that and not derail the thread.

[brvheart 1,752]

I guess there's nothing in the bible about not being a total asshole.

I honestly don't believe Lois felt like I was being an a-hole, but I could be wrong.

See bold. The whole story is right there.Lois, we disagree on a lot of stuff and you probably are not going to agree with this but I say it becuase it needs to be said:You dont like your wife. Period. You resent her lack of faith, you resent how unaffectionate she is, you resent how she withholds sex, you resent how she tells you what to do with money even though you are the one working your butt off to pay off the debt.Sure, you come off as selfish at times in this thread. Humans are selfish sometimes. And I am sure she has her selfish points too (she is a woman after all, hiyooooo!). But, what is more clear is that you just dont like her anymore. You may still love her but you don't like her. And, frankly, I would not put up with my wife hitting me more than once. That is messed up.Ignore the bible for a moment. Do you still enjoy being with your wife? If the answer is no, then you are doing yourself and her a huge disservice by continuing with a farce. Get some counselling, see how receptive she is to your concerns about affection/sex/money/religion/etc. If you don't like the answers, then get out.Oh, and Brvheart would make a Jewish girl really happy.

If I was any other religion that didn't believe what the Bible said, then I would view divorce and selflessness and serving just like everyone else.

I think it means a bunch of yammering from the person who knew the very least about anything Jesus had ever said (given that they never met and spoke different languages), but shaped the new faith in ways that Jesus never would have wanted it to go. Plus, I think it's in a book that's mostly a contradictory mish-mash of tribal governance and Bronze Age superstition. So, no, I'm pretty sure you DON'T think it means what I think it means.For context, here's much of the chapter:"let him not become uncircumcised." Yeah, 'cause that would be quite a trick. How do believers not see the howlers like this?"But this I say, brethren, the time is short." He's referring to the time when Jesus comes back from the dead, because he also addresses either this congregation or another about why some of them had died before Christ's return, a turn of events that obviously confused and distressed them. [Little wonder: Jesus has said of the end of days, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Matt. 24:34; "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." Mark 13:30; and "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." Luke 21:32. Interesting side note: all three gospels that were written both close in time to one another and relatively close in time to Jesus' life contain this quote. John, which was written somewhere around 65 years later, does not contain it. A touch of judicious editing, seeing as they were already a couple of generations removed and it hadn't happened???]But hey, what's being wrong by about 2,000 years and counting among believers?Anyway, all that aside, this isn't about the bible. It's about Lois and his wife. You've given your advice, I've given mine, so let's leave it at that and not derail the thread.

Like I said, I would love to discuss this in another thread. (for a Buddhist, you don't seem to be very accepting of other peoples beliefs. That surprises me.)

[brvheart 1,752]

I think it means a bunch of yammering from the person who knew the very least about anything Jesus had ever said (given that they never met and spoke different languages), but shaped the new faith in ways that Jesus never would have wanted it to go. Plus, I think it's in a book that's mostly a contradictory mish-mash of tribal governance and Bronze Age superstition. So, no, I'm pretty sure you DON'T think it means what I think it means.For context, here's much of the chapter:"let him not become uncircumcised." Yeah, 'cause that would be quite a trick. How do believers not see the howlers like this?"But this I say, brethren, the time is short." He's referring to the time when Jesus comes back from the dead, because he also addresses either this congregation or another about why some of them had died before Christ's return, a turn of events that obviously confused and distressed them. [Little wonder: Jesus has said of the end of days, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Matt. 24:34; "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." Mark 13:30; and "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." Luke 21:32. Interesting side note: all three gospels that were written both close in time to one another and relatively close in time to Jesus' life contain this quote. John, which was written somewhere around 65 years later, does not contain it. A touch of judicious editing, seeing as they were already a couple of generations removed and it hadn't happened???]But hey, what's being wrong by about 2,000 years and counting among believers?Anyway, all that aside, this isn't about the bible. It's about Lois and his wife. You've given your advice, I've given mine, so let's leave it at that and not derail the thread.

Also, I'm assuming by your condescending tone that I was somehow a jerk to you in the past at some point, so I apologize for that. My response to you in this thread should have been rewritten. I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't understand the verse, but that we viewed it's meaning differently. Sorry if it came out wrong on paper.

[CaneBrain 95]

I honestly don't believe Lois felt like I was being an a-hole, but I could be wrong.If I was any other religion that didn't believe what the Bible said, then I would view divorce and selflessness and serving just like everyone else.Like I said, I would love to discuss this in another thread. (for a Buddhist, you don't seem to be very excepting of other peoples beliefs. That surprises me.)

but you are what you are and therefore you are the ideal mate for a jew broad. just sayin.

[vbnautilus 48]

I honestly don't believe Lois felt like I was being an a-hole, but I could be wrong.If I was any other religion that didn't believe what the Bible said, then I would view divorce and selflessness and serving just like everyone else.Like I said, I would love to discuss this in another thread. (for a Buddhist, you don't seem to be very excepting of other peoples beliefs. That surprises me.)

I think you mean 'accepting'. But there is no reason whatsoever we should be accepting of other people's beliefs when they are clearly wrong to us. Sure, your have a legal right to have them, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't argue with someone who has a belief we see as wrong and that will negatively affect us all. (especially in a forum specifically made for discussing these things). Beliefs have consequences.If I see someone who believes there is an elevator behind the door and I know its an empty shaft, I gotta tell the guy. Similarly, if I see someone giving marriage advice to someone I know out of a mistranslated ancient shepherd's manual I should step in and say something.

[brvheart 1,752]

I think you mean 'accepting'. But there is no reason whatsoever we should be accepting of other people's beliefs when they are clearly wrong to us. Sure, your have a legal right to have them, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't argue with someone who has a belief we see as wrong and that will negatively affect us all. (especially in a forum specifically made for discussing these things). Beliefs have consequences.If I see someone who believes there is an elevator behind the door and I know its an empty shaft, I gotta tell the guy. Similarly, if I see someone giving marriage advice to someone I know out of a mistranslated ancient shepherd's manual I should step in and say something.

haha... thanks.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

Also, I'm assuming by your condescending tone that I was somehow a jerk to you in the past at some point, so I apologize for that. My response to you in this thread should have been rewritten. I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't understand the verse, but that we viewed it's meaning differently. Sorry if it came out wrong on paper.

You were never a jerk to me. I'm just highly skeptical of books that imply you can become uncircumcised, and the people who believe in those books unquestioningly. As you can see elsewhere in this forum, I've read the bible as well as a lot of scholarly works about it, and quoted them pretty extensively here (check the "Jesus and Prophecy" thread for an example).As for "that's not very Buddhist of you," that has about the same effect as a Muslim saying to you, "gee, that's not very Christian of you" when you criticize Islam. Meh. No religion means you're perfectly saintly and never snarky.[EDIT: although it's funny that whenever someone thinks a religion DOES require its followers to always be sweet and saintly, it's invariably someone ELSE's religion.]

[vbnautilus 48]

You were never a jerk to me. I'm just highly skeptical of books that imply you can become uncircumcised, and the people who believe in those books unquestioningly. As you can see elsewhere in this forum, I've read the bible as well as a lot of scholarly works about it, and quoted them pretty extensively here (check the "Jesus and Prophecy" thread for an example).As for "that's not very Buddhist of you," that has about the same effect as a Muslim saying to you, "gee, that's not very Christian of you" when you criticize Islam. Meh. No religion means you're perfectly saintly and never snarky.

SB I agree with almost everything you've posted but the becoming cicumsized thing seems like a language issue to me. I don't read it as indicating a beleif in the regrowth of the foreskin -- although oddly enough there are surgeries for this now.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

SB I agree with almost everything you've posted but the becoming cicumsized thing seems like a language issue to me. I don't read it as indicating a beleif in the regrowth of the foreskin -- although oddly enough there are surgeries for this now.

Yeah, possibly. "Mistranslated ancient shepherd's manual" -- I love it.

[hblask 1]

I didn't read *every* post in this thread, but I think one of the more relevant ones it that your problems will follow you.In my first marriage, I behaved a certain way. I didn't know it was destructive, but it was. (I thought I was being an excellent husband). My first wife handled it in a way that was destructive to our marriage, and by the time I figured out what was going on, it was over.So I thought I'd marry someone completely different. I didn't. I married someone essentially the same, and I behaved the same, despite my lessons from the first marriage. The only difference is this time I have a wife who (eventually) handled the problems constructively. The damage from the past -- the brutal end to my first marriage and brutal beginning to my second marriage -- have put up some big obstacles, but finally I realized what was going on, as if I saw it from the outside. And she came to terms with how she responded to everything. And now things are improving. Every day gets a little better, fighting is rare.So what's my point? I guess just to say that "leaving and starting over" isn't enough. Examining yourself from the outside is more important to your long term happiness than getting away from a specific person. Why did you pick who you did? What were you getting from it? No, really, at a deep level, at that "my family was nuts so I picked her because...." level? Why did you act the way you did to her? Is she willing to examine these same questions for herself? There are no easy answers, but the future happiness of both of you depends on finding them -- whether it's together or separate. And if you did leave and start over, what's to guarantee that you won't make an even worse choice -- repeating the past, except now you are carrying the baggage of a failed marriage on your ego? Don't underestimate that cost. If you have kids, your wife will still be in your life, only now lacking any reason to be nice to you. How will that affect your life? (Hint: it sucks).

[brvheart 1,752]

but you are what you are and therefore you are the ideal mate for a jew broad. just sayin.

sure, but me marrying a Jew broad would be against the Bible... unless she was just a Jew in race and not religion.

I think you mean 'accepting'. But there is no reason whatsoever we should be accepting of other people's beliefs when they are clearly wrong to us. Sure, your have a legal right to have them, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't argue with someone who has a belief we see as wrong and that will negatively affect us all. (especially in a forum specifically made for discussing these things). Beliefs have consequences.If I see someone who believes there is an elevator behind the door and I know its an empty shaft, I gotta tell the guy. Similarly, if I see someone giving marriage advice to someone I know out of a mistranslated ancient shepherd's manual I should step in and say something.

This analogy doesn't work because nothing I'm saying or doing is hurting or causing injury to anyone. Also, I'm not giving advice to everyone in the forum, far from it. My advice to a non-Christian would be totally different. Along the lines of, "Well you tried your best. If you have kids try to work it out, but if not a lot of people go through it... sorry man". But Lois believes the same things I do, generally speaking, and I believe it's my job as his brother in Christ to point out to him what God says about the issue. Also, he knows I really care about him.

You were never a jerk to me. I'm just highly skeptical of books that imply you can become uncircumcised, and the people who believe in those books unquestioningly. As you can see elsewhere in this forum, I've read the bible as well as a lot of scholarly works about it, and quoted them pretty extensively here (check the "Jesus and Prophecy" thread for an example).As for "that's not very Buddhist of you," that has about the same effect as a Muslim saying to you, "gee, that's not very Christian of you" when you criticize Islam. Meh. No religion means you're perfectly saintly and never snarky.[EDIT: although it's funny that whenever someone thinks a religion DOES require its followers to always be sweet and saintly, it's invariably someone ELSE's religion.]

The Bible requires that I love you, but doesn't speak about sweet or saintly. As for Buddhism, it just seems like a religion of peace, not condescension, belittlement, judgment and condemnation of others and their belief systems. I totally understand that no one is perfect however.

[brvheart 1,752]

I didn't read *every* post in this thread, but I think one of the more relevant ones it that your problems will follow you.In my first marriage, I behaved a certain way. I didn't know it was destructive, but it was. (I thought I was being an excellent husband). My first wife handled it in a way that was destructive to our marriage, and by the time I figured out what was going on, it was over.So I thought I'd marry someone completely different. I didn't. I married someone essentially the same, and I behaved the same, despite my lessons from the first marriage. The only difference is this time I have a wife who (eventually) handled the problems constructively. The damage from the past -- the brutal end to my first marriage and brutal beginning to my second marriage -- have put up some big obstacles, but finally I realized what was going on, as if I saw it from the outside. And she came to terms with how she responded to everything. And now things are improving. Every day gets a little better, fighting is rare.So what's my point? I guess just to say that "leaving and starting over" isn't enough. Examining yourself from the outside is more important to your long term happiness than getting away from a specific person. Why did you pick who you did? What were you getting from it? No, really, at a deep level, at that "my family was nuts so I picked her because...." level? Why did you act the way you did to her? Is she willing to examine these same questions for herself? There are no easy answers, but the future happiness of both of you depends on finding them -- whether it's together or separate. And if you did leave and start over, what's to guarantee that you won't make an even worse choice -- repeating the past, except now you are carrying the baggage of a failed marriage on your ego? Don't underestimate that cost. If you have kids, your wife will still be in your life, only now lacking any reason to be nice to you. How will that affect your life? (Hint: it sucks).

This is perfect advice from a non-religious standpoint. Very nice.

[Ron_Mexico 4,219]

goddammit, I wrote some good stuff. I want validation. Oops, sorry about the goddammit. I did it again.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

The Bible requires that I love you, but doesn't speak about sweet or saintly. As for Buddhism, it just seems like a religion of peace, not condescension, belittlement, judgment and condemnation of others and their belief systems. I totally understand that no one is perfect however.

Again, meh. I am at peace. You're taking any disagreement with your beliefs and reading into it a whole lot of emotional baggage that just ain't there -- at least not from my end, although apparently from yours. Don't take things so personally -- it's not about you.Ron, you did write some outstanding advice. I fully validate every word of it and you.Hblask -- that's exactly what I mean about pushing buttons. You take your problems with you wherever you go, and the people you're drawn to aren't the people who will fix your problems, they're the people who will inspire you to fix them yourself, just as (ideally) you'll inspire them to fix their own problems, and be there to support them while they do.But more importantly, no more thread hijacking. Where the hell is Lois, and did any of this yammering help him or not? One more piece of advice, Lois -- before you make any decisions, get away for a few days by yourself and just think about it (and pray, I guess). Go somewhere really quiet and think things through until you're at peace with yourself whatever decision you make. Since you're in Phoenix, I highly recommend hiking the Grand Canyon. I wrote about it elsewhere -- the stillness and vastness makes for a great place to think. A friend of mine is in Santa Fe and he hikes all over the place when he needs to get away and think -- Moab, the Escalante Staircase area, Bryce, etc.

[Loismustdie 0]

First off, as Arnold would say, "Everybody freeze!!" I am offline for a day hanging with my wife and this thread explodes. Awesome. I guess I will just start with this- I started this thread for 2 reasons. One, to get a bunch of different POV's, the other, to let myself open up a bit about it. That was all. I will not be leaving my wife anytime soon, we have a ways to go I believe. This may sound selfish but I think I can still grow as a person by being with here, if that makes sense. Some quick answers, and they will not be in any particular order. I have never really pushed religion on my wife.The times when I came close,it was not accepted real well, so I dropped it. It's one of the few things I have been smart about, and I don't resent her for it. I am one of the few christian types you will ever meet that really does believe you should go your own way, and this may be because I have. This is for another thread but I have talked openly before about the idea that I have grown so much as a human being not attending church, learned alot about myself. Some people are not ABC people, I am one of them. I have a different drummer inside. I do like my wife, I care about her very much. She is educated, she has hot friends, she gets my weird sense of humor most of the time, she enjoys obscure movies, she is very tender when she lets herself be. That being said, we also have issues, and I think I have seen just in this thread the folly of some of the ways I have been handling things, and I will update this thread with my feelings as I go about making some changes. This should be interesting. I will give you two examples right now: Last night we had a nice dinner at Mortons, went and bought some new CD's, etc., and she looked hot as usual. We get home, a little tired but nothing major, and we all know what's expected. Well, the first thing she does is whip off her clothes, jump out of the hot bra and panty combo she had going on and throw on some ratty Pj's. Let me clue you in on something. I like her to dress up a bit, I don't mean the Hamburglar I mean a little Victorias Secret something or other. How often does she wear stuff like that to bed? Once a year, and only if I ask. One time in 9 years has she done it without my asking. How am I going to solve that? Who knows, I gave up long ago. Anyway, so like a dummy, I said something-"So, your just not going to wear lingerie anymore?" She gets all miffed because I said something, her reaction is,"Why would you say that, why don't you just ask?" I tell her, "Look, it just shot through my mind, I said it out loud, no big deal." We have had this fight 100 times, it gets nowhere. Inside, this is what I said: "F uuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccckkkkkkk you!!!! After all these years you still don't get that I don't want to have to ask? I hate feeling like Oliver Twist." Yeah, there is some resentment there. Big time. She just doesn't want to. It makes me happy, I enjoy it- this matters to her zero. Whether things were great or bad, she has never given a shit about this issue. 2nd example: I couldn't sleep tonite, so I come out here to post a bit. She wandered out about 20 minutes ago, turned on the T.V., flipped through channels for about 30 seconds, then turns the T.V. off. I ask her if she was alright, did she want to hang out or something, no, everything is fine, what are you up to, I am posting on FCP, blah blah blah. She knows exactly what I am doing, she just wanted to try and catch me doing something else. She can hear me typing. She was trying to catch me watching porn. I wasn't, HA HA. But, if I would have been, whose fault is that? She makes no effort, why should I? Why not save myself some aggravation? Yeah, there is some resentment there. On both sides, and neither is justified. Mexico, your advice was stellar. I will post some more about individuals thoughts and advice tommorow afternoon. Right now I have to go to bed. What do you think, should I say,"You were just trying to catch me watching porn!!" That could be fun, she will sulk and pretend that I am wrong and carry it around for years. Wheeeeeeee!!!!!!

[PMJackson21 0]

"F uuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccckkkkkkk you!!!! After all these years you still don't get that I don't want to have to ask? I hate feeling like Oliver Twist."

GL with your relationship Lois, there is a lot of good, sound advice in this thread...I can't resist though (and you should appreciate the effort I made, and yes, I have sick MSPaint skills):

[brvheart 1,752]

goddammit, I wrote some good stuff. I want validation.

don't hold your breath and don't hold your breath

wow.... this post is simply amazing. Good job Ron!!! **Fleur smiley barrage**

[mk 11]

this is so off base I can't believe I read it....other content

man, you are the best.