Serious Thread, Seriously, All Opinions Must Be Serious.

[KramitDaToad 0]

Sorry to hear you're having a bumpy time - it's never fun.IMHO the most successful marriages come about when the couple realise that they need to focus on the whys and not the whats. Another way to put it is to ignore the details and find the motives.As an example, when you spend recklessly it upsets her. To make things work it's important to understand why it upsets her. It will usually be more than "I prefer to be secure". You both need to understand why this particular issue pushes her buttons - and you will know you're getting close when she can case her explanation without blame.Likewise it is only fair that you both explore and understand why you feel the need to spend recklessly. It will be a reason that is more meaningful than "because it is fun"Unfortunately you have to be extremely honest with each other as well as with yourself and this is too much for some people, however once you get to the motives, then can you find the solution that treats you both fairly.There are professionals out there that can help with this sort of stuff. Highly recommend seeking them out. It may sound/feel ghey, but life skills do stay with you for life.

[Loismustdie 0]

Sorry to hear you're having a bumpy time - it's never fun.IMHO the most successful marriages come about when the couple realise that they need to focus on the whys and not the whats. Another way to put it is to ignore the details and find the motives.As an example, when you spend recklessly it upsets her. To make things work it's important to understand why it upsets her. It will usually be more than "I prefer to be secure". You both need to understand why this particular issue pushes her buttons - and you will know you're getting close when she can case her explanation without blame.Likewise it is only fair that you both explore and understand why you feel the need to spend recklessly. It will be a reason that is more meaningful than "because it is fun"Unfortunately you have to be extremely honest with each other as well as with yourself and this is too much for some people, however once you get to the motives, then can you find the solution that treats you both fairly.There are professionals out there that can help with this sort of stuff. Highly recommend seeking them out. It may sound/feel ghey, but life skills do stay with you for life.

Sound advice, thank you very much. I can give you one for me and one for her right off the bat- when I was a kid I didn't have shit. Now, I do, and can. So, the BMX bike I couldn't afford when I was 12, I now have had like 6. I build them to spec and then either sell them or buy another, have fun with it. I even make it out to the track now and then, funny as that sounds. The point is, what I couldn't afford as a kid I make up for it now, in all aspects. This also translates to the kid because I make sure that kid has what I didn't. That is something I deal with constantly, I probably want to give that girl too much when it comes down to it. From her side real dad left at a young age to be replaced later by child molester dad who was an all around no good. (She was never molested, but mentally he was taxing.) So, he was irresponsible in alot of the same ways I am but for different reasons. She equates what I do at times with him, unfairly but it makes sense. We dealt with alot of this in the first two years- seriously, the hardest 2 years of my life by far. That shit was crazy. I never thought a person could flip out so hard about something as dumb as using 2 macaroni cheese packets instead of one, but she did one time. Went through the roof, because molester man used to do that and he would just put the box back. I was going to make macaroni salad with the other box. It's funny as hell but certain types of foods, expressions, words, would ****ing set her off. It was awesome to witness the damage a person can do. This bitch was crazy, bro, but she was also a good person who just needed to work through some shit. One of the big things I have been learning is not having money growing up ill prepared me to HAVE it if that makes sense. Becoming a stockbroker has helped alot with that angle, but I still spend recklessly. Seriously, I could do a whole sitcom about this stuff, we have had some of the(looking back) funniest things happen along the way because of our fights, disagreements, etc. and just the things that have occurred as we have tried to keep our shit together and then in turn help her family get it together after molester man went to jail. I can seriously say that we have come so very, very far, that this issue is just some bullshit comparatively. I will write some more later about some things I have been thinking about when it comes to these "new" issues.

[Loismustdie 0]

Sorry to hear you're having a bumpy time - it's never fun.IMHO the most successful marriages come about when the couple realise that they need to focus on the whys and not the whats. Another way to put it is to ignore the details and find the motives.As an example, when you spend recklessly it upsets her. To make things work it's important to understand why it upsets her. It will usually be more than "I prefer to be secure". You both need to understand why this particular issue pushes her buttons - and you will know you're getting close when she can case her explanation without blame.Likewise it is only fair that you both explore and understand why you feel the need to spend recklessly. It will be a reason that is more meaningful than "because it is fun"Unfortunately you have to be extremely honest with each other as well as with yourself and this is too much for some people, however once you get to the motives, then can you find the solution that treats you both fairly.There are professionals out there that can help with this sort of stuff. Highly recommend seeking them out. It may sound/feel ghey, but life skills do stay with you for life.

I don't want to gloss over how good this advice is, and in another thread we will butt heads like 2 Irish hoodlums but in this one we are in complete agreement. Thank you very much for the kind words and sound advice.

[KramitDaToad 0]

Sound advice, thank you very much. I can give you one for me and one for her right off the bat- when I was a kid I didn't have shit. Now, I do, and can. So, the BMX bike I couldn't afford when I was 12, I now have had like 6. I build them to spec and then either sell them or buy another, have fun with it. I even make it out to the track now and then, funny as that sounds. The point is, what I couldn't afford as a kid I make up for it now, in all aspects. This also translates to the kid because I make sure that kid has what I didn't. That is something I deal with constantly, I probably want to give that girl too much when it comes down to it. From her side real dad left at a young age to be replaced later by child molester dad who was an all around no good. (She was never molested, but mentally he was taxing.) So, he was irresponsible in alot of the same ways I am but for different reasons. She equates what I do at times with him, unfairly but it makes sense. We dealt with alot of this in the first two years- seriously, the hardest 2 years of my life by far. That shit was crazy. I never thought a person could flip out so hard about something as dumb as using 2 macaroni cheese packets instead of one, but she did one time. Went through the roof, because molester man used to do that and he would just put the box back. I was going to make macaroni salad with the other box. It's funny as hell but certain types of foods, expressions, words, would ****ing set her off. It was awesome to witness the damage a person can do. This bitch was crazy, bro, but she was also a good person who just needed to work through some shit. One of the big things I have been learning is not having money growing up ill prepared me to HAVE it if that makes sense. Becoming a stockbroker has helped alot with that angle, but I still spend recklessly. Seriously, I could do a whole sitcom about this stuff, we have had some of the(looking back) funniest things happen along the way because of our fights, disagreements, etc. and just the things that have occurred as we have tried to keep our shit together and then in turn help her family get it together after molester man went to jail. I can seriously say that we have come so very, very far, that this issue is just some bullshit comparatively. I will write some more later about some things I have been thinking about when it comes to these "new" issues.

Sounds like you at least have a grip of how it works. The next step in these situations is to seperate the past from today. Go back and understand the feelings behind being broke, forgive whoever 'made' you poor etc etc etc or whatever emotions are associated with it all - it's obviously a personal thing.To be honest it sounds like your lady has a larger share of baggage that she could use help with, although if you phrased it that way you could lose a testicle. As I said there are good professionals out there who can help. As long as you know, and sell it as 'We could use help' instead of 'you could use help', because it never works until you accept it's we & not you.

I don't want to gloss over how good this advice is, and in another thread we will butt heads like 2 Irish hoodlums but in this one we are in complete agreement. Thank you very much for the kind words and sound advice.

no worries douche clown Good luck

[brvheart 1,752]

Seriously. When is it o.k. for someone who believes in God to walk away from a marriage?

Never.Mark 101Jesus then left that place and went into the region of Judea and across the Jordan. Again crowds of people came to him, and as was his custom, he taught them.2Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?"3"What did Moses command you?" he replied.4They said, "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away."5"It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law," Jesus replied. 6"But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.' 7'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,8and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. 9Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."10When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."well, maybe never...Matthew 531"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.But almost never.

[Loismustdie 0]

Never.Mark 101Jesus then left that place and went into the region of Judea and across the Jordan. Again crowds of people came to him, and as was his custom, he taught them.2Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?"3"What did Moses command you?" he replied.4They said, "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away."5"It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law," Jesus replied. 6"But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.' 7'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,8and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. 9Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."10When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."well, maybe never...Matthew 531"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.But almost never.

Well, that would mean you can but can't remarry. It's God way of saying "You suck at this. No more."

[brvheart 1,752]

Well, that would mean you can but can't remarry. It's God way of saying "You suck at this. No more."

Sadly, I didn't see your original OP and I didn't even read the thread before posting. I had no idea that this was about you and now I'm sad. Anyway, obviously you know God hates divorce, but you're also smart enough to know that God hates sin. Going on porn sites and spending money foolishly are just as bad as divorce and you already know this, but however seem not to care at all. I know this is all part of what you call your "religious problem", but it's really sad to see. Since you apparently don't care about God or his mandates, and you don't care about knowing the truth and rejecting it, then you should probably just get a divorce and let your wife marry someone that will make her happy. Since you're sinning why not just go all out. Let's plan a bank robbery together. The problem, as you know, is that different sins have different consequences. Maybe something like this will help you get close to God and then you can seek your wife's forgiveness for being such a selfish a-hole. Or maybe this is just cause you to have an even lower self-esteem that you clearly already do, which could lead to suicide or worse. ( The "worse" being influencing other people... Christians and non-Christians away from God)ps... porn is not good.

[brvheart 1,752]

Well, that would mean you can but can't remarry. It's God way of saying "You suck at this. No more."

Did you read the passage?5"It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law," Jesus replied.6"But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.'7'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,8and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one.9Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

[brvheart 1,752]

Well, you edited this post. .I was going to say you answered you own question in the post, but you edited and deleted it before I could quote it..... I think, perhaps, because you know what the answer is already. I, as you know, can't give you any religious advice for when to walk away, and if it's okay. But it seems to me that you already know the answer to what you're asking. If you aren't making her happy, she isn't making you happy, and there isn't any hope of it improving in the future, I see absolutely no reason to submit yourself and her to years and years of further unhappiness. Doesn't make any sense to me at all. I Know it will hurt a lot at first to seperate.And you know what, Lois.. I can give you some religious advice. as I understand it, your wife is a non-believer, and your faith and her lack of it have been a stickling point between you. I don't think this is ever going to be resolved. If you want to continue being a Christian, she doesn't now and she will never support you in your belief. Conversely, you will never respect her lack of faith, and will be perpetually trying to change her, or at least hoping she will change ( because who wants their spouse doomed to eternal fire?) As the bible says, Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you. I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty. 2 Corinthians 6:14-18I agree with that bible verse, just not for the reasons it says. Your kind of faith is too big of a core issue for you. It's never going to resolve, and you two are never going to be what each other needs. Good luck, Lois, I mean this sincerely. Breaking up sucks, and getting divorced sucks times 10.. but getting divorced sucks way less than being trapped in a doomed marriage.

Lois, is this correct? How did that happen? Do you have any kids?

when the day is over... You have to be happy. Sounds selfish but if you aren't happy, you cant make someone else happy. Realtionships involve sacrifices. How much are you willing to sacrifice to make her content? Divorce isn't the end of the world and happens just as much in the church as it does outside of the church. I think people should cohabitate for a long time before they take the walk. Good luck.

This post is terrible advice, except the bolded part.

I don't want to gloss over how good this advice is, and in another thread we will butt heads like 2 Irish hoodlums but in this one we are in complete agreement. Thank you very much for the kind words and sound advice.

This is what I normally see: You have chosen to ignore all posts from: KramitDaToad.· View this post· Un-ignore KramitDaToad maybe Toad deserves another chance.

[brvheart 1,752]

My first post was a bit to involved, and you are right, but this time it has nothing to do with faith, it has to do with who I am at the core, the things with me that are part of me that actually took me away from church, if that makes sense. I like to enjoy life, and while things always get taken care of I do put us into financial pickles at times with the decisions that I make, but that is me and always has been. This worries her, it doesn't worry me, it probably never will. So, when I do what I do(aka something stupid) she then worries, and worries, and worries, and generally just plays miserable until things get back to normal. Here is what I need from her- let me be me. Here is what she needs from me- be somebody else, or at least make more money, which I did and do, we payed off about 25% of our debt last year BECAUSE of me, yet we didn't save anything so it doesn't matter. She wants what is doable but will take time, but she wants it on her terms- notice, I said I made more money. She still gets to work at restaurants with her friends and have a grand old time, which I loved by the way, yet I took myself out of my comfort zone and what did she do? Nothing, and then still makes me feel like it's not enough, and at some point will it ever be? There are some interesting angles to this that just make it worse, the thing is I don't know if she has ever had the comfort level she is looking for, so how does she know she would be happy? Her life was chaos before me with some of her family issues, it only makes sense that she would latch onto a chaotic personality. I don't know that it's over, when she is relaxed we have a great time, we really do, she just doesn't relax enough, and I am always at ease. I grew up on welfare, I know what broke REALLY is. I know what it's like to need money and know it ain't coming. We don't live a life anywhere close to that, we always have money or at least have money coming in. I think about these things and I laugh at how boring and stupid it all is- the number one reason people fight is finances, and here I am , I can't figure THIS out? I mean, ****. How stupid is that? So, I look to the future and I know that by the end of this year we will have paid off more debt, will she be any happier? No. So, when it's all said and done and we are down to zero, than what? Will she be any happier? I don't think so. I think it's deeper that, I know it is. Lets paint a pattern: 1. Frank spends to much. 2. Franks wife gets uneasy, is stressed out. Relationship,sex life suffers, it is downright boring, 3. Frank buys porn site membership to weather the storm. Also gambles a bit. I'm bored WTF? 4. Wife gets mad because he spent more money, and probably also feels inadequate on some level. 5. Things are fine in the end, everything gets paid, but she still hold onto this and holds it against me. Two months later the cycle starts again. Arrrggggghh!! Except it builds up because now she gets to add it to the anger that she is still holding inside, and now it's worse because it's "AGAIN?" All of this would be alleviated if she could just say,"My husband is an idiot but things will get taken care of, they always do. Maybe I should just not be the most boring miserable person ever just because he likes a colorful life." Is that to much to ask?

I bolded all the parts where you are being extremely selfish. http://www.firstfamilyministries.com/files...ion_matters.mp3(This was this past Sunday's message at my church. I don't love my pastor in every way, but it applies nicely to this situation. Also in the middle of his sermon when he mentions that some men in the church disagree with him on this issue... that was me, between services... disagree with something he said.)

[brvheart 1,752]

Sound advice, thank you very much. I can give you one for me and one for her right off the bat- when I was a kid I didn't have shit. Now, I do, and can. So, the BMX bike I couldn't afford when I was 12, I now have had like 6. I build them to spec and then either sell them or buy another, have fun with it. I even make it out to the track now and then, funny as that sounds. The point is, what I couldn't afford as a kid I make up for it now, in all aspects. This also translates to the kid because I make sure that kid has what I didn't. That is something I deal with constantly, I probably want to give that girl too much when it comes down to it. From her side real dad left at a young age to be replaced later by child molester dad who was an all around no good. (She was never molested, but mentally he was taxing.) So, he was irresponsible in alot of the same ways I am but for different reasons. She equates what I do at times with him, unfairly but it makes sense. We dealt with alot of this in the first two years- seriously, the hardest 2 years of my life by far. That shit was crazy. I never thought a person could flip out so hard about something as dumb as using 2 macaroni cheese packets instead of one, but she did one time. Went through the roof, because molester man used to do that and he would just put the box back. I was going to make macaroni salad with the other box. It's funny as hell but certain types of foods, expressions, words, would ****ing set her off. It was awesome to witness the damage a person can do. This bitch was crazy, bro, but she was also a good person who just needed to work through some shit. One of the big things I have been learning is not having money growing up ill prepared me to HAVE it if that makes sense. Becoming a stockbroker has helped alot with that angle, but I still spend recklessly. Seriously, I could do a whole sitcom about this stuff, we have had some of the(looking back) funniest things happen along the way because of our fights, disagreements, etc. and just the things that have occurred as we have tried to keep our shit together and then in turn help her family get it together after molester man went to jail. I can seriously say that we have come so very, very far, that this issue is just some bullshit comparatively. I will write some more later about some things I have been thinking about when it comes to these "new" issues.

This child involved is enough reason alone to not get divorced. Especially given her past. I would drive to Arizona to punch you in the gut for doing that to her.

[CaneBrain 95]

Lois,The fact that your wife is a non-believer is a problem that will never go away. It is so important that a husband and wife agree (or mostly agree) on the big issues: religion, politics, family size, and proper money management.You and your wife disagree on two of those (at least). That is a big hurdle to overcome. As a non-believer, it is easy for me to say that divorce might not be a bad idea. I have trouble believing that any deity worth worshipping would want you to be miserable. Do you have kids? (Sorry I have not diligently read this whole thread). If you do not have kids, then imo, divorce is really not a big deal. (as long as you have made several good faith attempts to work on your problems.) If you can look yourself in the mirror and say I tried really hard to save my marraige but it is just not working.....then you have done your part. You should not have to fundamentally change who you are to "make it work". Oh, and Brvheart is a smart guy but too tightly wound for living. No porn? Boooooo.

[brvheart 1,752]

Lois,The fact that your wife is a non-believer is a problem that will never go away. It is so important that a husband and wife agree (or mostly agree) on the big issues: religion, politics, family size, and proper money management.You and your wife disagree on two of those (at least). That is a big hurdle to overcome. As a non-believer, it is easy for me to say that divorce might not be a bad idea. I have trouble believing that any deity worth worshipping would want you to be miserable. Do you have kids? (Sorry I have not diligently read this whole thread). If you do not have kids, then imo, divorce is really not a big deal. (as long as you have made several good faith attempts to work on your problems.) If you can look yourself in the mirror and say I tried really hard to save my marraige but it is just not working.....then you have done your part. You should not have to fundamentally change who you are to "make it work". Oh, and Brvheart is a smart guy but too tightly wound for living. No porn? Boooooo.

It's clear by his posts that not only has he not tried to unselfishly serve his wife... he has no plans to start. Which is ok if he didn't know the truth. (He could just Elizabeth Taylor her and be better for it.)Also, porn is awesome. (as a lot of sins are) That doesn't make is good and holy and pure and righteous.

[Sal Paradise 57]

It's clear by his posts that not only has he not tried to unselfishly serve his wife... he has no plans to start. Which is ok if he didn't know the truth. (He could just Elizabeth Taylor her and be better for it.)Also, porn is awesome. That doesn't make is good and holy and pure and righteous.

oh it is most definitely righteous. and gnarly. and awesome. but thats another thread altogether (yes you know which one).and lois, I'd love to give you advice on the matter, but I can't even find a girl willing to date me, let alone marry me, so I doubt I'd be much help on the issue. from what braveheart posted, it does seem like the bible indicates divorce is a no-go. however, and keep in mind I'm not religious at all, I agree with canebrain in that I doubt any god would want somebody to be miserable in a marriage if they don't have to. I mean, it seems to me according to that passage, a woman who is beaten repeatedly by her husband can't divorce him unless he actually cheats on her. seems a bit unreasonable to me.

[vbnautilus 48]

I think there is some sound advice in this thread. I just wanted to add something about the issue of divorce. My personal understanding of marriage is that in order to fulfill your responsibility to it you have to give it your all. In other words, you gotta make every effort in your power to make it work before giving up on it. If you have tried absolutely everything, and the marriage is still an unhealthy thing in both of your lives, then let it go, but not before then. To be completely honest, it doesn't seem like her not wanting you to spend money frivolously is an unreasonable thing for a wife to ask for. Being in a marriage financially is like being in a publicly held corporation -- you have a responsibility to the shareholders to do what is best for the business over and above your own personal interests. Women tend to interpret actions that don't profit the corporation as reflecting a lack of commitment to the relationship. Especially if you haven't had kids yet, it's going to cause her a lot of anxiety if the CEO doesn't seem to have the company's best interest at heart. It's probably worth it to make some effort to try and understand this perspective. I think relationships are the main mechanisms by which we work through our personal issues, and it sounds to me like there may still be more growth to be had from this relationship.Hope things work out for you.

[brvheart 1,752]

oh it is most definitely righteous. and gnarly. and awesome. but thats another thread altogether (yes you know which one).and lois, I'd love to give you advice on the matter, but I can't even find a girl willing to date me, let alone marry me, so I doubt I'd be much help on the issue. from what braveheart posted, it does seem like the bible indicates divorce is a no-go. however, and keep in mind I'm not religious at all, I agree with canebrain in that I doubt any god would want somebody to be miserable in a marriage if they don't have to. I mean, it seems to me according to that passage, a woman who is beaten repeatedly by her husband can't divorce him unless he actually cheats on her. seems a bit unreasonable to me.

You have to realize that the bible is a handbook for how a COUPLE should behave. It speaks much more to how men should love their wives as God loves the church. Men are told again and again. Love you wife. Serve your wife. Lay down your life for your wife. If men were doing this, then the only issues that would arise in a marriage would be "what's for dinner?". (Also sex would be awesomer)If a woman is getting beat by her husband her local church should intervene according to the Bible. Also the Bible does not say that a temporary separation is wrong.

[Loismustdie 0]

Sadly, I didn't see your original OP and I didn't even read the thread before posting. I had no idea that this was about you and now I'm sad. Anyway, obviously you know God hates divorce, but you're also smart enough to know that God hates sin. Going on porn sites and spending money foolishly are just as bad as divorce and you already know this, but however seem not to care at all. I know this is all part of what you call your "religious problem", but it's really sad to see. Since you apparently don't care about God or his mandates, and you don't care about knowing the truth and rejecting it, then you should probably just get a divorce and let your wife marry someone that will make her happy. Since you're sinning why not just go all out. Let's plan a bank robbery together. The problem, as you know, is that different sins have different consequences. Maybe something like this will help you get close to God and then you can seek your wife's forgiveness for being such a selfish a-hole. Or maybe this is just cause you to have an even lower self-esteem that you clearly already do, which could lead to suicide or worse. ( The "worse" being influencing other people... Christians and non-Christians away from God)ps... porn is not good.

There are 2 sides to everything. There is no way that you will find me ever diminishing my side in it, but she has a part in it as well. There are some things I should seek her forgiveness, some ways she should seek mine. A far as the scripture side to it, God does allow you an out. If you in good conscience- and I couldn't right now- but if you could say you did all you could, you can walk away, you just can't remarry, that's made very clear. Suicide? Now you are just being idiotic. Why the hell would I commit suicide? THIS is a problem, sin could lead to just a sinful life as much as it could lead to suicide. I could just be a dude that does as he pleases without being a ****ing bank robber. THIS is a problem with your mindset, and it's one my Mom was very good about illustrating because we DO have freewill. I can be a sinner and STILL be a productive citizen. Where are you coming from? When did you turn extremist? I can say this- admitting when one is wrong is the start, but here is where it ends- when somebody stands up and starts yelling about how you could commit suicide, and that you are a sinner, and you should just get a divorce and let your wife marry somebody better, and be a bank robber, and how could you be such an *******. **** you, dude. It's a disgrace that the best levelheaded advice in this thread came from an atheist. I ought to put your dumb ass on ignore.

[Loismustdie 0]

You have to realize that the bible is a handbook for how a COUPLE should behave. It speaks much more to how men should love their wives as God loves the church. Men are told again and again. Love you wife. Serve your wife. Lay down your life for your wife. If men were doing this, then the only issues that would arise in a marriage would be "what's for dinner?". (Also sex would be awesomer)If a woman is getting beat by her husband her local church should intervene according to the Bible. Also the Bible does not say that a temporary separation is wrong.

What he is missing is, what if the woman isn't doing this? 2 sides to everything. As much as I am to serve my wife, she is to serve me. Period, end of story. I find in my dealings with people women are just as guilty of not serving there husbands, and it has a snowball effect, especially when you take God out of the equation.

[Loismustdie 0]

oh it is most definitely righteous. and gnarly. and awesome. but thats another thread altogether (yes you know which one).and lois, I'd love to give you advice on the matter, but I can't even find a girl willing to date me, let alone marry me, so I doubt I'd be much help on the issue. from what braveheart posted, it does seem like the bible indicates divorce is a no-go. however, and keep in mind I'm not religious at all, I agree with canebrain in that I doubt any god would want somebody to be miserable in a marriage if they don't have to. I mean, it seems to me according to that passage, a woman who is beaten repeatedly by her husband can't divorce him unless he actually cheats on her. seems a bit unreasonable to me.

Very unreasonable. He is misapplying the passage, but considering his extreme stances that's to be expected.

[ComicBookGuy 1]

Very unreasonable. He is misapplying the passage, but considering his extreme stances that's to be expected.

Clearly he's a closet papist.

[Loismustdie 0]

This child involved is enough reason alone to not get divorced. Especially given her past. I would drive to Arizona to punch you in the gut for doing that to her.

No. Horrible advice. No one should ever stay together for a child.Not to mention that it would be nice if her past didn't effect my present, wouldn't you say? How about in our first two years, that first time she hauled off and punched me(first of many)- I forgave her, many times. She has never, ever treated me like I should be/could be treated- I have had to battle for EVERYTHING- this is a woman who just has deep seeded issues with men. I have been with her all along trying to help her work them out, but ****. I am not perfect, and along the way I will make mistakes. Do you know what it's like to be basically feel like sex is something that is earned? I didn't, until I got married. I didn't know that a person could literally keep a tally of every damn thing you have ever done and hold onto it like a addict holds on to his pipe, but they do. That's insane, no one can live under that kind of scrutiny, even God gives you a pass now and then. The problem is this- this shit takes on a life of it's own, and at some point both of us have to realize where we went wrong and change certain things. I can tell you for a fact that she has rarely ever said "I was wrong" and changed her ways, and in ten ****ing years I can count on one hand times when she has been ****ing affectionate FIRST,and I mean that quite literally, one hand. I don't mean just in bed, I mean something as simple as a damn kiss for no reason. One hand, no lie. I had meant not talk about her to much, and this is just scratching the surface of the whole "two sides to every story thing." It's complicated, and complicated more by the fact that no, she was not a christian and never has been and may never be, she has hatred towards God as well because she blames him for her mom marrying a child molester.

[Loismustdie 0]

Clearly he's a closet papist.

Clearly. Clearly I just didn't want to be ****ed with today, lol.

[brvheart 1,752]

There are 2 sides to everything. There is no way that you will find me ever diminishing my side in it, but she has a part in it as well. There are some things I should seek her forgiveness, some ways she should seek mine. A far as the scripture side to it, God does allow you an out. If you in good conscience- and I couldn't right now- but if you could say you did all you could, you can walk away, you just can't remarry, that's made very clear. Suicide? Now you are just being idiotic. Why the hell would I commit suicide? THIS is a problem, sin could lead to just a sinful life as much as it could lead to suicide. I could just be a dude that does as he pleases without being a ****ing bank robber. THIS is a problem with your mindset, and it's one my Mom was very good about illustrating because we DO have freewill. I can be a sinner and STILL be a productive citizen. Where are you coming from? When did you turn extremist? I can say this- admitting when one is wrong is the start, but here is where it ends- when somebody stands up and starts yelling about how you could commit suicide, and that you are a sinner, and you should just get a divorce and let your wife marry somebody better, and be a bank robber, and how could you be such an *******. **** you, dude. It's a disgrace that the best levelheaded advice in this thread came from an atheist. I ought to put your dumb ass on ignore.

Obviously I wasn't saying that every sinner commits suicide. You're the one being stupid. But we'll leave this for another day when you're not in such a bad mood.

What he is missing is, what if the woman isn't doing this? 2 sides to everything. As much as I am to serve my wife, she is to serve me. Period, end of story. I find in my dealings with people women are just as guilty of not serving there husbands, and it has a snowball effect, especially when you take God out of the equation.

This illistrates exactly my point much better than I ever could. "Ok, I'll say sorry Mom, but Timmy has to say sorry too! (..and I'm not really sorry)" Your entire attitude is, "What about me?". Don't worry about the speck in her eye, worry about the LOG in your eye.

Very unreasonable. He is misapplying the passage, but considering his extreme stances that's to be expected.

LOL

No. Horrible advice. No one should ever stay together for a child.Not to mention that it would be nice if her past didn't effect my present, wouldn't you say? How about in our first two years, that first time she hauled off and punched me(first of many)- I forgave her, many times. She has never, ever treated me like I should be/could be treated- I have had to battle for EVERYTHING- this is a woman who just has deep seeded issues with men. I have been with her all along trying to help her work them out, but ****. I am not perfect, and along the way I will make mistakes. Do you know what it's like to be basically feel like sex is something that is earned? I didn't, until I got married. I didn't know that a person could literally keep a tally of every damn thing you have ever done and hold onto it like a addict holds on to his pipe, but they do. That's insane, no one can live under that kind of scrutiny, even God gives you a pass now and then. The problem is this- this shit takes on a life of it's own, and at some point both of us have to realize where we went wrong and change certain things. I can tell you for a fact that she has rarely ever said "I was wrong" and changed her ways, and in ten ****ing years I can count on one hand times when she has been ****ing affectionate FIRST,and I mean that quite literally, one hand. I don't mean just in bed, I mean something as simple as a damn kiss for no reason. One hand, no lie. I had meant not talk about her to much, and this is just scratching the surface of the whole "two sides to every story thing." It's complicated, and complicated more by the fact that no, she was not a christian and never has been and may never be, she has hatred towards God as well because she blames him for her mom marrying a child molester.

This is wrong, but you're not ready to talk obviously. (Dr. Laura FTW) Also, I could care less how she behaves. You shouldn't have married her then. The day you got married, what did you use for your vows? Hopefully you had crickets chirping your vows.I would think it would be pretty easy, even in your current state of mind, to see that you are saying.... "Yes I have done a bunch wrong and I should apologize... but THERE ARE TWO SIDES!! SHE'S A BITCH!! SHE ALWAYS HAS BEEN!! .... and God says I can walk away." NOPE. Old Testament said that, not New Testament. Even Sal, as dumb as he is, could see as clear as day that the New Testament says don't do it.Did you listen to the sermon link? I would like your opinion on it.

[Randy Reed 0]

My first post was a bit to involved, and you are right, but this time it has nothing to do with faith, it has to do with who I am at the core, the things with me that are part of me that actually took me away from church, if that makes sense. I like to enjoy life, and while things always get taken care of I do put us into financial pickles at times with the decisions that I make, but that is me and always has been. This worries her, it doesn't worry me, it probably never will. So, when I do what I do(aka something stupid) she then worries, and worries, and worries, and generally just plays miserable until things get back to normal. Here is what I need from her- let me be me. Here is what she needs from me- be somebody else, or at least make more money, which I did and do, we payed off about 25% of our debt last year BECAUSE of me, yet we didn't save anything so it doesn't matter. She wants what is doable but will take time, but she wants it on her terms- notice, I said I made more money. She still gets to work at restaurants with her friends and have a grand old time, which I loved by the way, yet I took myself out of my comfort zone and what did she do? Nothing, and then still makes me feel like it's not enough, and at some point will it ever be? There are some interesting angles to this that just make it worse, the thing is I don't know if she has ever had the comfort level she is looking for, so how does she know she would be happy? Her life was chaos before me with some of her family issues, it only makes sense that she would latch onto a chaotic personality. I don't know that it's over, when she is relaxed we have a great time, we really do, she just doesn't relax enough, and I am always at ease. I grew up on welfare, I know what broke REALLY is. I know what it's like to need money and know it ain't coming. We don't live a life anywhere close to that, we always have money or at least have money coming in. I think about these things and I laugh at how boring and stupid it all is- the number one reason people fight is finances, and here I am , I can't figure THIS out? I mean, ****. How stupid is that? So, I look to the future and I know that by the end of this year we will have paid off more debt, will she be any happier? No. So, when it's all said and done and we are down to zero, than what? Will she be any happier? I don't think so. I think it's deeper that, I know it is. Lets paint a pattern: 1. Frank spends to much. 2. Franks wife gets uneasy, is stressed out. Relationship,sex life suffers, it is downright boring, 3. Frank buys porn site membership to weather the storm. Also gambles a bit. I'm bored WTF? 4. Wife gets mad because he spent more money, and probably also feels inadequate on some level. 5. Things are fine in the end, everything gets paid, but she still hold onto this and holds it against me. Two months later the cycle starts again. Arrrggggghh!! Except it builds up because now she gets to add it to the anger that she is still holding inside, and now it's worse because it's "AGAIN?" All of this would be alleviated if she could just say,"My husband is an idiot but things will get taken care of, they always do. Maybe I should just not be the most boring miserable person ever just because he likes a colorful life." Is that to much to ask?

I haven't really read the rest of thread so I might be out of line. If I am, please excuse me. Some thoughts though.Happiness isn't inclusive to a relationship. I believe you must first be happy with yourself. How? The same things usually work for everyone. Striving to achieve, be a better person, success and money isn't everything but sometimes it's a guage. How about an honest day's work whether it be cutting grass, building a bridge or doing a 9-5. It's seems you have some issues with your achievments vs. hers. When you slack and waste money and aren't achieving she's mad. When you are achieving you're looking for some gratification from her (respect maybe) that you're not getting because in your mind it's still not enough for her. Look, I don't know her from a hole in the wall. She may be a saint or hooking behind your back, doesn't matter for my discussion. I think you have issues that need to be resolved first. You have to be happy with yourself before you can begin to SHARE a relationship with another person. People are individuals. We're not born couples. I know you're religous to some extend and though I'm sure if God made woman in his image he must enjoy thier looks and probably trolls porn sites as well. But how about, let's say, not trolling porn and spending time with your wife trying to get along? How about a different hobby that might not lead to more destructive behavior. Maybe poker isn't a good alternative outlet. Obviously religon doesn't work either. So how about education? Maybe reading some things, taking a class that will make you feel better from learning? Accomplish something that way. How about encouraging her to to the same. Look for common interests to revive the relationship.Anywho be honest about what you wrote which in a nutshell read.1. Frank is a self absorbed asshole.2. Wife thinks he's losing it.3. Wife thinks he's really losing it.4. Wife really knows he's over the edge.5. When you realize what an ******* you are, you make amends long enough to repeat the process.

[brvheart 1,752]

I haven't really read the rest of thread so I might be out of line. If I am, please excuse me. Some thoughts though.Happiness isn't inclusive to a relationship. I believe you must first be happy with yourself. How? The same things usually work for everyone. Striving to achieve, be a better person, success and money isn't everything but sometimes it's a guage. How about an honest day's work whether it be cutting grass, building a bridge or doing a 9-5. It's seems you have some issues with your achievments vs. hers. When you slack and waste money and aren't achieving she's mad. When you are achieving you're looking for some gratification from her (respect maybe) that you're not getting because in your mind it's still not enough for her. Look, I don't know her from a hole in the wall. She may be a saint or hooking behind your back, doesn't matter for my discussion. I think you have issues that need to be resolved first. You have to be happy with yourself before you can begin to SHARE a relationship with another person. People are individuals. We're not born couples. I know you're religous to some extend and though I'm sure if God made woman in his image he must enjoy thier looks and probably trolls porn sites as well. But how about, let's say, not trolling porn and spending time with your wife trying to get along? How about a different hobby that might not lead to more destructive behavior. Maybe poker isn't a good alternative outlet. Obviously religon doesn't work either. So how about education? Maybe reading some things, taking a class that will make you feel better from learning? Accomplish something that way. How about encouraging her to to the same. Look for common interests to revive the relationship.Anywho be honest about what you wrote which in a nutshell read.1. Frank is a self absorbed asshole.2. Wife thinks he's losing it.3. Wife thinks he's really losing it.4. Wife really knows he's over the edge.5. When you realize what an ******* you are, you make amends long enough to repeat the process.

I'm thrilled I'm not the only one that sees how obviously true this is.