Chaserjim 0 Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 NL Hold'em , 55 players 50$ dollar buy. A modified Deep Stack blind structure. Payouts are 1st - 4th . 5 players Remain. Play at the table is pretty aggressive between Me , Villain and UTG. We had been picking off blinds, and button was moving pretty quickly around the table with everyone folding to raises preflop. Villain was chip leader, and a pretty decent player. He had accumulated about 10k chips during bubble play by raising all in on people's blinds, including myself. UTG won a few coinflips before bubble play to eliminate a few players and amass a decent chip stack, but for the most part, she's been raising with top10 hands and limps with small pairs. 2 hands prior when I was BB , Villain pushed all in to steal blinds. After I let it go, he did it again on my small blind. This didnt rattle me, maybe he was picking up hands, I just didnt like losing 4500 chips in the matter of 2 minutes. Then this hand came up.Hero - 33,000 SB - 14,000Villain (BB) - 58,000UTG - 37,000UTG+1 - 15,000Blinds - 1500 / 3000 (no ante)UTG folds. UTG+1 Calls 3000Hero picks up ( 7s 7c ) and pushes all in , on the button for 30,000 more. ??SB folds.Villain calls , UTG+1 folds immediatly. (Personally if UTG had a good enough hand to call off more then 10% of his stack here, I figured he shoulda pushed and tried to triple up) I table 77's , and Villain turns up "AKo" Flop 10s 4d 2c Turn 10s 4d 2c KcRiver 10s 4d 2c Kc JdAnd Im out , and didnt finish in the money when all I really needed to do was outlast UTG +1 and SB. They were so short stacked , eventually they had to push. Now, of course when my friends found out I went from one of the chip leaders of the tournament, so out on the bubble .. I took alot of critiscm. Here's how I defend my action, and Im just curious if this is justified , +EV , or just play bad. 1: " I play to win , not take 4th or 3rd." 2: Villain folds 90% of the time there, unless its top 10.3: My play was pretty standard bubble play. There argument was : You spent 50 dollars to piss away a nice chip stack , on bubble play .. giving it all to the eventual winner. You should have at least waited til you money'd , and then play aggressive to win. I think first place was around 900 dollars, with 4th being around 125. What do you guys think? Do you NOT push the 7's on button, and maybe just use a 3-5 times BB bet? Maybe my play was wrong, but I had also accumulated 7-10k chips during bubble play,as the SB and UTG+1 were very passive and seemed to be waiting on aces. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 1 Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 He had AK and hit. Obviously you should have folded.Don't include the results when you post.You played it fine. Your friends are retards who are horrible at poker and incredibly biased by results. All you need to ask yourself is, if you had doubled up or if the other player had folded, would your friends have said you made a mistake? Link to post Share on other sites
NonZeroPossibility 0 Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 standard Link to post Share on other sites
copernicus 0 Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 with position on villain and UTG+1 in for 20% of his stack (so questionable fold equity and he's fairly strong) I would limp behind here and see a flop. Of course in this case villain is pushing ansd you have a decision to make. If your read is a top 10 hand then 77 is an easy fold. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 He had AK and hit. Obviously you should have folded.Don't include the results when you post.You played it fine. Your friends are retards who are horrible at poker and incredibly biased by results. All you need to ask yourself is, if you had doubled up or if the other player had folded, would your friends have said you made a mistake?This Link to post Share on other sites
CodyDean 0 Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 you should raise your 77 there absolutely but not all in.and not 3-5BB either.i would raise 2.5 - 3BB when it's short handed FT/bubble play.77 in MP definitely calls for slightly above min raise IMO.that was the small blind will fold their garbage and if the BB defends, you should have a good idea of their range.when you see the brick board like that, THEN you push. if he calls with AK on the flop, then he is a donkey and when he hits, he looks like a douche bag and you played flawlessly.but he would have folded and you would have gone on to win the tournament.sorry better luck next time! Link to post Share on other sites
copernicus 0 Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 you should raise your 77 there absolutely but not all in.and not 3-5BB either.i would raise 2.5 - 3BB when it's short handed FT/bubble play.77 in MP definitely calls for slightly above min raise IMO.that was the small blind will fold their garbage and if the BB defends, you should have a good idea of their range.when you see the brick board like that, THEN you push. if he calls with AK on the flop, then he is a donkey and when he hits, he looks like a douche bag and you played flawlessly.but he would have folded and you would have gone on to win the tournament.sorry better luck next time!With a limper already in you want to raise 2.5-3bb representing 25% of your stack, giving at least Limper and BB >2:1 to tag along?Raising here does nothing more than limping behind does and you can get away from it, you cant get away from a raise. Link to post Share on other sites
StupidKid 0 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Your friends are retards who are horrible at poker and incredibly biased by results. All you need to ask yourself is, if you had doubled up or if the other player had folded, would your friends have said you made a mistake? Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury69 3 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I have no problem with the shove, but something about Copernicus' line sounds even better. The question is, if you limp behind, what will the AK guy do against 2 limpers? I'm guessing he'll shove and you can fold your 77 to what looks like a pretty strong hand against which a coin-flip is your likeliest and best hope. A lot of people will play high cards aggressively in live tourneys. The BB might have called with A9+, KT+ if he felt he was flipping (clearly he was aggressive), because your shove doesn't say "I have a big PP/big A". Your shove says "I'm not looking for a caller". Unfortunately, he had AK, which is usually the case for me when I shove and the one person left to act has me convered lol.And tell your friends to stfu. Link to post Share on other sites
Znakeyez 0 Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 I am curious Is it bad to raise a certain amount instead of going all in with 77 ? ( I hate going all in with that many chips ) It sounds like you either call to see a flop or shove all in? ( is that correct? )Because a raise would allow the first limper and the villain to call.... Link to post Share on other sites
copernicus 0 Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 I am curious Is it bad to raise a certain amount instead of going all in with 77 ? ( I hate going all in with that many chips ) It sounds like you either call to see a flop or shove all in? ( is that correct? )Because a raise would allow the first limper and the villain to call....The problem is that if you raise the minimum is to 12 or so for it not to be an autocall for UTG+1 and villain. Since UTG+1 is so short you are really saying youre willing to commit 15k, half your stack. If you are going to commit half your stack, then you should commit your whole stack while theres a chance your ahead.If you were in the SB and had first action on the flop then a stop and go might be the right play, but having position hurts here. You are unlikely to have it checked around to you, and as soon as anyone puts more money in the pot you have no fold equity (and you probaby have very little FE against UTG+1 for a preflop push). Link to post Share on other sites
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