gradin123 0 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 It is clear to me the the democratic party big wigs(Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, etc.) are behind Barack Obama. Thus they are going to distribute the Michigan and Florida delegates in manner that might give a slight edge to Clinton but not enough to make a difference.Of course, the only rational thing to do would be a re-vote. Yes they broke the party rules but that is not the fault of the democratic voters in those states. Clinton backers have offered to fund the re-vote because obviously it provides them with the best shot of coming back. Obama doesn't want a vote because it doesn't help him and is doing everything in his power to ignore or dismiss the issue. But I think after tonight it is an issue that will become a factor. Hillary is not likely going away before May 31st.What really should matter are the voters in those states. But the DNC and Obama don't really want their voices heard because it might muddle things further. The Clinton campaign is pushing hard right now for a favorably outcome on May 31st from the DNC rules committee but the bottom line is they aren't going to get it.So the question is when the DNC unfairly(in my view) discounts Michigan and Florida on May 31st will Clinton accept that quietly? Should she?A crazy thing just crossed my mind. If the DNC give Hillary the middle finger on May 31st might she consider a run as a independent? I'd say no because she doesn't want to burn bridges and it would blew up the Democratic party as we know it. But if the Clinton campaign comes out of the May 31st meeting pissed off enough I can't dismiss it entirely. Link to post Share on other sites
weishan14 0 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Barack Obama is finally coming to Michigan to campaign tomorrow. Won't get to see him, cuz we already had plans, but it would be interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
gradin123 0 Posted May 14, 2008 Author Share Posted May 14, 2008 Barack Obama is finally coming to Michigan to campaign tomorrow. Won't get to see him, cuz we already had plans, but it would be interesting.For the record, if there was a re-vote I believe Michigan would be super close like Indiana, and Florida would go to Clinton by about 10 points. That wouldn't be enough to swing things in her favor but it would make the overall popular vote very close. Still I think Obama would win and no one could complain that it wasn't fair.But I don't think the DNC and Obama want to risk that and they won't allow a re-vote. They'd like Hillary to go away and I wouldn't be surprised to see the undeclared superdelegates get pressured to make a decision, before May 31st but after next week's Kentucky and Oregon primaries, so that Obama can reach the current magic number before the meeting takes place. Obama will win Oregon in my view and that will begin the push for the superdelgates to declare and so he can get to 2025 before May 31st. Clinton will will big in Kentucky but that will be ignored. Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 I think Obama would win Michigan. I know a lot of people that didn't vote because he was not an option or they shrugged and voted for Clinton because she was the only viable choice. I don't think the results show a true trend here. Link to post Share on other sites
weishan14 0 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 I think Obama would win Michigan. I know a lot of people that didn't vote because he was not an option or they shrugged and voted for Clinton because she was the only viable choice. I don't think the results show a true trend here.I have to agree - I know a lot who didn't vote or voted for 'other'. Link to post Share on other sites
gradin123 0 Posted May 14, 2008 Author Share Posted May 14, 2008 I have to agree - I know a lot who didn't vote or voted for 'other'.I bet you aren't in her demographic. Are you under 30? In college?Michigan is a a melting pot. Has lots of blacks but also a lot of poor whites. It is similiar to Indiana in that it has both of their demographics. It would be tight in Michigan. I can't say who would win for sure.But that goes to my point. Clinton wouldn't kill Obama in Michigan and therefore if they did re-vote he'd probably win anyways. But the DNC doesn't want to risk that. There are a lot of Clinton haters in the DNC because Bill pushed the party more towards the center in his efforts to win and survive. Their voices are loud right now and they want this to end as fast as possible and they want Obama.I'll put it this way. IF the roles were reversed. There would be a re-vote in Michigan and Florida. I am certain of that. Link to post Share on other sites
nutzbuster 7 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Are you under 30? In college?And a new friend for life is born.... Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 And a new friend for life is born.... Yea..she's like 39 isn't she? Link to post Share on other sites
Southern Buddhist 1 Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Why do you think not counting Michigan and Florida is unfair? Primaries are intra-party deals, so the party makes the rules, and it was the parties in those states that broke them. They knew the penalty, and did it anyway. It's not like FL and MI voters are disenfranchised in the general election in any way, shape, or form. It's just intra-party business, and their own leaders screwed it up. I'd say a re-vote, now, would give them absolutely undue influence, undermine the rules seriously, and be unfair to other states.This just proves that Florida, Democrat or Republican, cannot hold an election correctly for love or money. It's the LAST state that deserves an outsized say in who the candidate should be -- hell, I lived there for four years and I'm not convinced the state is competent to vote anymore! Link to post Share on other sites
weishan14 0 Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 And a new friend for life is born.... :icon_cool:Balloon guy : Tuesday, May 13th, 2008Yea..she's like 39 isn't she?Hey, I was in college a couple of years ago, does that count? Now, under 30 - - well 1 outta 2 ain't bad!! Link to post Share on other sites
nutzbuster 7 Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Why do you think not counting Michigan and Florida is unfair? Primaries are intra-party deals, so the party makes the rules, and it was the parties in those states that broke them. They knew the penalty, and did it anyway. It's not like FL and MI voters are disenfranchised in the general election in any way, shape, or form. It's just intra-party business, and their own leaders screwed it up. I'd say a re-vote, now, would give them absolutely undue influence, undermine the rules seriously, and be unfair to other states.This just proves that Florida, Democrat or Republican, cannot hold an election correctly for love or money. It's the LAST state that deserves an outsized say in who the candidate should be -- hell, I lived there for four years and I'm not convinced the state is competent to vote anymore!Fair and balanced. Nice job.Hey, I was in college a couple of years ago, does that count? Now, under 30 - - well 1 outta 2 ain't bad!!So you ARE 39!!! Link to post Share on other sites
weishan14 0 Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 So you ARE 39!!! Welllll, I was 39 ..... once upon a time!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Nimue1995 1 Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Welllll, I was 39 ..... once upon a time!!! I've been 39 for about 15 years now. Link to post Share on other sites
copernicus 0 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Why do you think not counting Michigan and Florida is unfair? Primaries are intra-party deals, so the party makes the rules, and it was the parties in those states that broke them. They knew the penalty, and did it anyway. It's not like FL and MI voters are disenfranchised in the general election in any way, shape, or form. It's just intra-party business, and their own leaders screwed it up. I'd say a re-vote, now, would give them absolutely undue influence, undermine the rules seriously, and be unfair to other states.This just proves that Florida, Democrat or Republican, cannot hold an election correctly for love or money. It's the LAST state that deserves an outsized say in who the candidate should be -- hell, I lived there for four years and I'm not convinced the state is competent to vote anymore!Every percent will be important in the general, and there will be more than a few percent in Fla and Mi that are pissed at the party because their candidate lost because their primaries werent counted. Just them sitting out will help the GOP. Thinking they could actually exclude them was an asinine Dingy Harry power play that hopefully will backfire on the entire party. Oh, I forgot, horse face Pelosi to the rescue! Link to post Share on other sites
Southern Buddhist 1 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I don't see why voters in FL or MI would have any reason to be mad at the general party. It was their state leadership that screwed up. I know, though, people are stupid, and they may very well blame the wrong group.I fully understand why Obama doesn't want them counted, and it's not because it helps Clinton. Way back when, at the beginning of the primary, he and Clinton agreed not to campaign in either state. Obama actually took his name off the Michigan ballot, although Clinton did not. So it was never a fair contest between her and him there at all. Now she wants that state counted when he wasn't even on the ballot. How fair is that? What about the complete disenfranchisement of his supporters in Michigan? For saying all votes must be counted, she's not too interested in making sure those votes are.Anyway, now they get half a vote, and it basically changes nothing. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I don't see why voters in FL or MI would have any reason to be mad at the general party. It was their state leadership that screwed up. I know, though, people are stupid, and they may very well blame the wrong group.I fully understand why Obama doesn't want them counted, and it's not because it helps Clinton. Way back when, at the beginning of the primary, he and Clinton agreed not to campaign in either state. Obama actually took his name off the Michigan ballot, although Clinton did not. So it was never a fair contest between her and him there at all. Now she wants that state counted when he wasn't even on the ballot. How fair is that? What about the complete disenfranchisement of his supporters in Michigan? For saying all votes must be counted, she's not too interested in making sure those votes are.Anyway, now they get half a vote, and it basically changes nothing.And let's face it, "Every vote counts" is just a slogan, not a way of life for the democrat party Link to post Share on other sites
akoff 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I know, though, people are stupid, and they may very well blame the wrong group.Just like when they are blaming Republicans for the Democratic congress the last two years….or when they think things will change with Obama in charge….or that they think things will be better with a democrat in charge…you are correct, people are stupid. Link to post Share on other sites
Southern Buddhist 1 Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Just like when they are blaming Republicans for the Democratic congress the last two years….or when they think things will change with Obama in charge….or that they think things will be better with a democrat in charge…you are correct, people are stupid.Or like when they put Bush in office -- twice. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Or like when they put Bush in office -- twice. Nevermind that the alternative was worse. Hint: Tell your idiots to stop running. You may actually win a presidential election. Link to post Share on other sites
Nimue1995 1 Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Nevermind that the alternative was worse. Hint: Tell your idiots to stop running. You may actually win a presidential election.Hint: Tell your idiots to get behind Ron Paul and you might have won again. I'D even vote for him. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Hint: Tell your idiots to get behind Ron Paul and you might have won again. I'D even vote for him.?????? Obama hasn't won anything yet. Link to post Share on other sites
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