Documentary On Homosexuality And Religion

[brvheart 1,751]

It's so weird to me that people really think this. I wish I could be around in a few thousand years (if humans are still around) to see people viewing thoughts like this the same way we view the old greek gods. You can type it all you want, it doesn't make it true. You guys seem to love saying "they aren't christians" about everyone who doesn't agree with your exact view of christianity. I think that super-orthodox jews are more of a cult than anything else, but I don't claim they are part of a different religion from me.

I can look at myself and what I'm saying from your point of view and I totally understand where you're coming from with the "real Christians" stuff. This is all I mean by that. You are not a Jew, at least not the religion. You can say you're a Jew all you want and you can go to synagogue a couple times a year with your parents. But you don't believe in God. It doesn't matter if you claim to be a Jew. You are not. (ps.. the previous sentences are just based on a guess. If you do believe in God, just substitute these sentences to being directed at one of your many friends that this describes) This is what I'm talking about. People can claim to be Christians all they want, about 80% of Americans do, but if these same people decide what God wants and desires based on whatever they think instead of what the Bible explicitly states... then these people are not "real Christians". Some examples:"Christian": Don't condemn other religions. Everybody can have their own God.Bible: I am the way, the truth, and the life, NO ONE comes to the father except through me. -Jesus"Christian": Abortions are fine. God doesn't care.Bible: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart;"and "13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. 14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. 15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, 16 your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. "I could do this all night. But I know no one really cares.

Ok, this is hard for me to understand, so please clarify. You constantly say that all men are sinners (and point to yourself in particular)...why can't gays exist as christians but you can?

I think Lois is saying that he can't exist as a Christian either. Sin is sin. You can't get into heaven if you are a slave to sin. Whether that be fudge packing or loving porn... it still separates you from the love of God. The only way to escape the bondage of sin is through the death of Jesus on the cross.

[brvheart 1,751]

It's an interesting conundrum you bring up, but let's delve into it. The problem is this- if you believe the bible and you want to go to heaven that which it teaches you try and do- so, since the bible condemns homosexual behavior, that would be something you would battle. If you didn't (battle) two things could happen, well, really three. One, you say, "This isn't for me, I don't buy this, I am out." Two, you say,"I believe, but not THAT part, so I will continue in my sin because I don't think it is so" and the holy spirit does it's thing and your conscience bothers you non stop until you either A, change or B, leave. The third choice is the worst, where you continue in the sin, stomp all over your conscience, and God gives you over to that reprobate mind he referred to in Romans, and you can no longer change. In that state you just sit in your sin and never get anywhere in your walk with God- I have seen that plenty, I would imagine Braveheart has as well. That's the saddest of all. The thing is this applies to all sin left unchecked- it WILL drive a wedge between you and God, like me and gambling. You know my story- I HAD to make a choice, either serve God or do as I wanted. This is the point that I drive home all of the time in these conversations, homosexuality is not special in anyway shape or form in the sin category in Gods eyes, that's why he just addresses it in Romans and then just dismissed it and grouped it with the rest, basically saying, "You ain't special, you are worthy of death just like the guy who is to prideful, in my eyes."

Are you still struggling with gambling? What the hell is wrong with your Christian friends and/or pastor that they are not coming along side you. I guarantee that if you were going to my church, you would have about 10 guys calling you all week long. Find a new church dude! Come on! This is the creator of the universe we serve! If you need me to call you I will. PM me your phone number.

Non-sinful masturbation is impossible because of the lust factor. And, pointless.

This was my point.

What if I fantasize about my wife? Is the desire for sex bad?

This would be wonderful. You should lust for your wife. Phone sex... etc.... with your wife is 100% good and correct according to the Bible. (yes, phone sex is mentioned in the Bible somewhere... so I hear)

[speedz99 145]

It's not popular christianity, it's christianity you read about because that is what sells.

Yeah, you're probably right. Vocal minority, etc. But I bet you'd be surprised at the percentage of christians that hate gays.

It's an interesting conundrum you bring up, but let's delve into it. The problem is this- if you believe the bible and you want to go to heaven that which it teaches you try and do- so, since the bible condemns homosexual behavior, that would be something you would battle. If you didn't (battle) two things could happen, well, really three. One, you say, "This isn't for me, I don't buy this, I am out." Two, you say,"I believe, but not THAT part, so I will continue in my sin because I don't think it is so" and the holy spirit does it's thing and your conscience bothers you non stop until you either A, change or B, leave. The third choice is the worst, where you continue in the sin, stomp all over your conscience, and God gives you over to that reprobate mind he referred to in Romans, and you can no longer change. In that state you just sit in your sin and never get anywhere in your walk with God- I have seen that plenty, I would imagine Braveheart has as well. That's the saddest of all.The thing is this applies to all sin left unchecked- it WILL drive a wedge between you and God, like me and gambling. You know my story- I HAD to make a choice, either serve God or do as I wanted. This is the point that I drive home all of the time in these conversations, homosexuality is not special in anyway shape or form in the sin category in Gods eyes, that's why he just addresses it in Romans and then just dismissed it and grouped it with the rest, basically saying, "You ain't special, you are worthy of death just like the guy who is to prideful, in my eyes."

Man, it's really hard to get into heaven, huh? What about someone who's perfect in every way but a few times didn't honor her parents? Maybe she lied to them about a very minor issue to protect them. That's two commandments broken at once, but in an other perfect life. Does she make the cut? Does God make judgement calls, or according to your christianity is she pretty much fucked? I feel like if she's screwed, there's no motivation for anyone to be a good person if they have one or two vices that'll keep them outside of the pearly gates.

[speedz99 145]

I can look at myself and what I'm saying from your point of view and I totally understand where you're coming from with the "real Christians" stuff. This is all I mean by that. You are not a Jew, at least not the religion. You can say you're a Jew all you want and you can go to synagogue a couple times a year with your parents. But you don't believe in God. It doesn't matter if you claim to be a Jew. You are not.

Uh oh...don't pretend you know too much about Judaism. How we define "Jew" is very different from how you seem to define "Christian". The vast majority of rabbis (but not the crazy cultish ones I mentioned) would absolutely say that I am Jewish even if at the moment I'm not very connected to the spiritual aspect of the religion.

(ps.. the previous sentences are just based on a guess. If you do believe in God, just substitute these sentences to being directed at one of your many friends that this describes) This is what I'm talking about. People can claim to be Christians all they want, about 80% of Americans do, but if these same people decide what God wants and desires based on whatever they think instead of what the Bible explicitly states... then these people are not "real Christians".

These people would probably say that you're wrong. But you'll tell me that they're 100% wrong about you being wrong. And they'd say that you're 100% wrong about them being 100% wrong about you being 100% wrong. There are very different way to interpret bible passages...and from my perspective it's all totally subjective because of the history of the book, the outdated language, vagueness, and going in with preconcieved notions.See the problem here? To me, it all evens out and you're all real Christians, just different types.

Some examples:"Christian": Don't condemn other religions. Everybody can have their own God.Bible: I am the way, the truth, and the life, NO ONE comes to the father except through me. -Jesus

What Christian (surrounded by quotes or not) that says other religions are just as correct and valid as Christianity? Maybe they don't condemn them, but...

"Christian": Abortions are fine. God doesn't care.Bible: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart;"

Sounds to me like He would be pissed at men and women for not fornicating immediately after every child is born in order to make as many of lives (that He already formed) as possible...right up until they're no longer capable of spitting out his creations. I'm half kidding. The "before" thing makes it pretty ambiguous.

and "13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. 14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. 15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, 16 your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. "

Yes, we are all formed in wombs. Is this a revalation? He's describing a biological process...you're stretching if you translate that to "no abortions".

I could do this all night. But I know no one really cares.

Not true.

The only way to escape the bondage of sin is through the death of Jesus on the cross.

Sweet...he already did that, so aren't we good to go?

Are you still struggling with gambling? What the hell is wrong with your Christian friends and/or pastor that they are not coming along side you. I guarantee that if you were going to my church, you would have about 10 guys calling you all week long. Find a new church dude! Come on! This is the creator of the universe we serve! If you need me to call you I will. PM me your phone number.

Oh, you don't sin? Impressive.(that came out douchier than I meant it to)

[Loismustdie 0]

Yeah, you're probably right. Vocal minority, etc. But I bet you'd be surprised at the percentage of christians that hate gays.Man, it's really hard to get into heaven, huh? What about someone who's perfect in every way but a few times didn't honor her parents? Maybe she lied to them about a very minor issue to protect them. That's two commandments broken at once, but in an other perfect life. Does she make the cut? Does God make judgement calls, or according to your christianity is she pretty much fucked? I feel like if she's screwed, there's no motivation for anyone to be a good person if they have one or two vices that'll keep them outside of the pearly gates.

Ultimately God will be the judge. Sounds to me like the person you are talking about is doing her best. God is willing to forgive your sin, if you repent- that doesn't sound like an unrepentant person you described. The wedge comes when you continue to just not change, and choose sin over God- does that make sense? God says that he will give a striving servant time, so- and faith comes into play heer- I would trust that God would give that person the time to deal with what it is she or he cannot change, yet.

[brvheart 1,751]

Yeah, you're probably right. Vocal minority, etc. But I bet you'd be surprised at the percentage of christians that hate gays.Man, it's really hard to get into heaven, huh? What about someone who's perfect in every way but a few times didn't honor her parents? Maybe she lied to them about a very minor issue to protect them. That's two commandments broken at once, but in an other perfect life. Does she make the cut? Does God make judgement calls, or according to your christianity is she pretty much fucked? I feel like if she's screwed, there's no motivation for anyone to be a good person if they have one or two vices that'll keep them outside of the pearly gates.

Here's the thing. Getting to heaven isn't about doing "just enough to make it". No sin can enter heaven. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.So this girl is totally screwed. God is prefect and demands perfection, but no one can achieve perfection. Only Jesus' death on the cross can make us "perfect" in God's eyes. Once Jesus is in your heart it's like seeing the world through special glasses and being able to see everything so clearly. Everyone else calls you crazy but you can see the truth plain as day. From that point forward, because the Holy Spirit is living in you... you DESIRE to be good. Not to try to attain a certain righteousness... but because you want to do anything you can to please God. Since by his grace and mercy he saved you from certain death.

[Loismustdie 0]

Oh, and to clarify, no, I don't struggle with gambling. I have tamed that beast. I still play, about 4 hours a week, which I still think God would not be o.k. with just because of my past with it. I mean, it's a bit like if you left your girlfriend for another woman, and then came back but still insisted on seeing the other woman occasionally. Maybe I am harder on myself than God would be, that's certainly possible, but I suppose I would rather go that route.

[Loismustdie 0]

Here's the thing. Getting to heaven isn't about doing "just enough to make it". No sin can enter heaven. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.So this girl is totally screwed. God is prefect and demands perfection, but no one can achieve perfection. Only Jesus' death on the cross can make us "perfect" in God's eyes. Once Jesus is in your heart it's like seeing the world through special glasses and being able to see everything so clearly. Everyone else calls you crazy but you can see the truth plain as day. From that point forward, because the Holy Spirit is living in you... you DESIRE to be good. Not to try to attain a certain righteousness... but because you want to do anything you can to please God. Since by his grace and mercy he saved you from certain death.

What he said as well. This guy and I agree on quite a bit, it's just some of the minutia we go at it over, which is great. I have learned alot from him.

[brvheart 1,751]

NO!!! Dang you Speedz... I have to go and I just saw your long post. I'll have to tackle that when I come back.. sorry.Last thoughts on why I WANT to do good.... 23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it. 24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. BEST ONE!1Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

[speedz99 145]

Ultimately God will be the judge. Sounds to me like the person you are talking about is doing her best. God is willing to forgive your sin, if you repent- that doesn't sound like an unrepentant person you described. The wedge comes when you continue to just not change, and choose sin over God- does that make sense? God says that he will give a striving servant time, so- and faith comes into play heer- I would trust that God would give that person the time to deal with what it is she or he cannot change, yet.

What if a mass murderer becomes truly repentant and accepts JC? He can get his ticket to heaven punched? I know you can't know for sure, but what do you think?

So this girl is totally screwed. God is prefect and demands perfection, but no one can achieve perfection.

So how is anyone getting into heaven?

Only Jesus' death on the cross can make us "perfect" in God's eyes.

Again, sweet. It already happened. We're golden!

Once Jesus is in your heart it's like seeing the world through special glasses and being able to see everything so clearly. Everyone else calls you crazy but you can see the truth plain as day. From that point forward, because the Holy Spirit is living in you... you DESIRE to be good. Not to try to attain a certain righteousness... but because you want to do anything you can to please God. Since by his grace and mercy he saved you from certain death.

I already desire to be good...I don't need to want to please some higher power for that. Honestly, your version of God does not seem to have much grace or mercy. He's picky, vindictive, and some other adjective that I can't think of at the moment. Sorry if that's offensive, but the God you believe in just isn't at all what I would picture a higher power to be. It's anthropomorphism to the nth degree. But that's just my opinion.

What he said as well. This guy and I agree on quite a bit, it's just some of the minutia we go at it over, which is great. I have learned alot from him.

What he said was actually quite different from what you said. You said she can repent and God'll be cool with it. He said she's screwed, just like anyone else that has sinned (which is everyone). I hope you guys don't mind the questions. Sometimes I wish you guys would get on the offensive and ask us why we believe what we believe. I like thinking about this stuff.

[Loismustdie 0]

What if a mass murderer becomes truly repentant and accepts JC? He can get his ticket to heaven punched? I know you can't know for sure, but what do you think?So how is anyone getting into heaven?Again, sweet. It already happened. We're golden!I already desire to be good...I don't need to want to please some higher power for that. Honestly, your version of God does not seem to have much grace or mercy. He's picky, vindictive, and some other adjective that I can't think of at the moment. Sorry if that's offensive, but the God you believe in just isn't at all what I would picture a higher power to be. It's anthropomorphism to the nth degree. But that's just my opinion.What he said was actually quite different from what you said. You said she can repent and God'll be cool with it. He said she's screwed, just like anyone else that has sinned (which is everyone). I hope you guys don't mind the questions. Sometimes I wish you guys would get on the offensive and ask us why we believe what we believe. I like thinking about this stuff.

Don't mind at all. First things first, I assumed that the person you described was a christian- barring that, Braveheart is right.(Biblically.) Now, he said we are all screwed but by the grace of God. I think you may have misunderstood what he said a bit. A mass murderer, while technically he COULD repent, and your right I could never REALLY know, I am confident that the vast majority of hardcore criminals such as that actually could never repent. Repentance is a mental turnaround if you will, and to be honest you don't have to be a mass murderer to be incapable of that, you could just be the gay guy who refuses to accept,and is to deep into his sin to change, or the habitual liar. Braveheart and I will disagree on this most likely, thankfully it's a hypothetical, but from what I can tell it is possible to get yourself, as a human in such a state that even God can't help. We call this insanity, a broad term, but really all insanity is is you are no longer the man pulling the strings, and when that happens who exactly can repent?(Which Braveheart would agree is imperative, without it there is no salvation.) I agree that God is harsh, I agree quite a bit, but that's not as much about him actually being harsh as much as it's about me having sin I want to hold onto. This flesh is weak and when it's weak unchecked the hold it has on us is strong. That being said, I wonder why it has to be so hard? Like, why did I have to be born now, because I would have made a kick ass king, 700 wives would have been awesome. That being said I see the value in a more perfect existence- people that ACTUALLY only desire there wife are disgusting, but they are happy and in a place that is enviable. You look at a commandment like the idea that the thought of another woman is still cheating and the flesh thinks "Thats stupid" but what if you (and I) could actually pull that off? What if the world could? What if the world served there significant other the way God commanded? It would be a utopia, and frankly it ain't happening, but if it could what a world that would be. God envisioned perfection and then gave us the ability to choose otherwise, even to our own detriment, because I believe he saw the folly in creating robots. Many times if you analyze it something that seems like Gods fault at first glance actually is all about the choices man has made. In that way it would be Gods fault but what was he to do? I am so glad I am not a toy soldier. I hope that made sense, I have been drinking wine for the past two hours and watching Emerils show. So gay.

[Loismustdie 0]

What if a mass murderer becomes truly repentant and accepts JC? He can get his ticket to heaven punched? I know you can't know for sure, but what do you think?So how is anyone getting into heaven?Again, sweet. It already happened. We're golden!I already desire to be good...I don't need to want to please some higher power for that. Honestly, your version of God does not seem to have much grace or mercy. He's picky, vindictive, and some other adjective that I can't think of at the moment. Sorry if that's offensive, but the God you believe in just isn't at all what I would picture a higher power to be. It's anthropomorphism to the nth degree. But that's just my opinion.What he said was actually quite different from what you said. You said she can repent and God'll be cool with it. He said she's screwed, just like anyone else that has sinned (which is everyone). I hope you guys don't mind the questions. Sometimes I wish you guys would get on the offensive and ask us why we believe what we believe. I like thinking about this stuff.

Oh, yes, and that's a good line of thought. Why do you believe what you believe? For example, your thoughts on Gods grace and mercy.

[speedz99 145]

A mass murderer, while technically he COULD repent, and your right I could never REALLY know, I am confident that the vast majority of hardcore criminals such as that actually could never repent. Repentance is a mental turnaround if you will, and to be honest you don't have to be a mass murderer to be incapable of that, you could just be the gay guy who refuses to accept,and is to deep into his sin to change, or the habitual liar. Braveheart and I will disagree on this most likely, thankfully it's a hypothetical, but from what I can tell it is possible to get yourself, as a human in such a state that even God can't help.

In the history of time...or at least since the Christian God showed up...I'm sure someone who commited multiple murders has repented. So that's it? He's good to go? This is where I think a lot of religions get derailed. For me it makes no sense that a higher power would care that we worship him in such an exact way, and cast judgements based on a belief in him rather than the way we live our lives. Someone who follows every single commandment and lives a 'perfect' life, but doesn't believe that JC was the son of god, would not go to heaven. Honestly, if this is true (which of course I believe it isn't) it means God is an idiot.

We call this insanity, a broad term, but really all insanity is is you are no longer the man pulling the strings, and when that happens who exactly can repent?(Which Braveheart would agree is imperative, without it there is no salvation.)

I'm pretty sure we could have a very long and interesting thread about how insanity should be defined.

I agree that God is harsh, I agree quite a bit, but that's not as much about him actually being harsh as much as it's about me having sin I want to hold onto. This flesh is weak and when it's weak unchecked the hold it has on us is strong. That being said, I wonder why it has to be so hard? Like, why did I have to be born now, because I would have made a kick ass king, 700 wives would have been awesome. That being said I see the value in a more perfect existence- people that ACTUALLY only desire there wife are disgusting, but they are happy and in a place that is enviable. You look at a commandment like the idea that the thought of another woman is still cheating and the flesh thinks "Thats stupid" but what if you (and I) could actually pull that off? What if the world could? What if the world served there significant other the way God commanded? It would be a utopia, and frankly it ain't happening, but if it could what a world that would be. God envisioned perfection and then gave us the ability to choose otherwise, even to our own detriment, because I believe he saw the folly in creating robots. Many times if you analyze it something that seems like Gods fault at first glance actually is all about the choices man has made. In that way it would be Gods fault but what was he to do? I am so glad I am not a toy soldier.

This is reasonable enough. I wonder why God wouldn't just give us the option, but would create us in a way that we have an innate desire to 'sin'. Why not at least make us neutral? But I can't really ask those questions, since again it's anthropomorphising in a way that I find too far-fetched even if there was any form of an intelligent designer (an idea which I'm not sure I can get behind).

I hope that made sense, I have been drinking wine for the past two hours and watching Emerils show. So gay.

It made sense. Which show? Actually, I think they cancelled his live one (thankfully).

Oh, yes, and that's a good line of thought. Why do you believe what you believe? For example, your thoughts on Gods grace and mercy.

I feel the need to clarify that we're talking about what I believe is a fictional character. Or at least an incorrect characterization.I covered some of it previously in this post. He has condemned more than half of the human race (much more than that if you go back in time) to eternal damnation because they will never have a realistic opportunity to become Christian. You're telling me that's graceful? In the Old Testament he did some nasty shit that had nothing to do with mercy. Also, the all-powerful thing bugs me. I hate the Jesus Burrito paradox.

[LadyGrey 6]

No, it can't. It doesn't say that. It does say homosexuality is bad. There is absolutely no ambiguity on these points.Form your opinion. Use the bible to form your opinion, or don't, if you want. But don't pretend the bible says something it doesn't.

Yes, it can, or I wouldn't have said it.Genesis 38 7 And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. 8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. 9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. 10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.God wants Onan to inseminate his brother's wife, but Onan doesn't want to so he "spilled it on the ground" i.e. ejaculated without being inside her i.e. masturbated.I don't use the bible to form my opinion on anything, but seeing as all the christians in this thread are trying to justify their opinion with bible quotes, the only way to respond is to do the same.

[KramitDaToad 0]

Can I ask for clarification in a non-specific, cliff notes type summary?Is the following a correct summary of your (Lois, brv) beliefs on the subject? If not what is missing?

• We all sin. Whenever we <Enter sin here> we are commiting a sin.
• Sin cannot enter heaven.
• However Jesus died for our sins ie to forgive us our sins. (Not sure if forgive is the correct term. I toyed with 'washed away', 'removed' etc)
• We must beleive in Jesus for this to happen.
• Only the sins we are repentant of are forgiven.
• If we have any sins left that we are not repentant of, they are not forgiven and we cannot enter heaven.

<Enter sin here> can be replaced with any sin found in the Bible, be it murder, homosexuality or eating shellfish.

[speedz99 145]

9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. 10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

Hey look, a shining example of God being a graceless ass with no mercy."YOU! BANG THY BROTHER'S WIFE!""Uh...that's a little disrespectful. I don't think so.""CONSIDER THYSELF SMITED! OR IS IT SMOTED? OR PERHAPS SMOTEN! AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR I NOW PROCLAIM THE CORRECT WORD IN THIS SPECIFIC SITUATION TO BE SMOTEN! SO, YOU KNOW, ZAP! OR WHATEVER SOUND I MAKE WHEN SLAYING PEOPLE THAT DON'T DO EXACTLY AS I SAY! EXCEPT FOR IN THE CASE OF ALL NON-BIBLICAL HISTORY, WHEN I SHALL NOT OPENLY DO ANYTHING WITHIN PLAIN SIGHT! GOD, OUT!"

[Sal Paradise 57]

Hey look, a shining example of God being a graceless ass with no mercy."YOU! BANG THY BROTHER'S WIFE!""Uh...that's a little disrespectful. I don't think so.""CONSIDER THYSELF SMITED! OR IS IT SMOTED? OR PERHAPS SMOTEN! AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR I NOW PROCLAIM THE CORRECT WORD IN THIS SPECIFIC SITUATION TO BE SMOTEN! SO, YOU KNOW, ZAP! OR WHATEVER SOUND I MAKE WHEN SLAYING PEOPLE THAT DON'T DO EXACTLY AS I SAY! EXCEPT FOR IN THE CASE OF ALL NON-BIBLICAL HISTORY, WHEN I SHALL NOT OPENLY DO ANYTHING WITHIN PLAIN SIGHT! GOD, OUT!"

if this were in the bible I would SOOO be a christian.

[Loismustdie 0]

Hey look, a shining example of God being a graceless ass with no mercy."YOU! BANG THY BROTHER'S WIFE!""Uh...that's a little disrespectful. I don't think so.""CONSIDER THYSELF SMITED! OR IS IT SMOTED? OR PERHAPS SMOTEN! AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR I NOW PROCLAIM THE CORRECT WORD IN THIS SPECIFIC SITUATION TO BE SMOTEN! SO, YOU KNOW, ZAP! OR WHATEVER SOUND I MAKE WHEN SLAYING PEOPLE THAT DON'T DO EXACTLY AS I SAY! EXCEPT FOR IN THE CASE OF ALL NON-BIBLICAL HISTORY, WHEN I SHALL NOT OPENLY DO ANYTHING WITHIN PLAIN SIGHT! GOD, OUT!"

God has an issue with people not listening. And, Lady Grey is right to post that scripture- this does pretty clearly state Gods feeling on the "spilling of the seed". More later. I just woke up, man.

[Loismustdie 0]

Yes, it can, or I wouldn't have said it.Genesis 38 7 And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. 8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. 9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. 10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.God wants Onan to inseminate his brother's wife, but Onan doesn't want to so he "spilled it on the ground" i.e. ejaculated without being inside her i.e. masturbated.I don't use the bible to form my opinion on anything, but seeing as all the christians in this thread are trying to justify their opinion with bible quotes, the only way to respond is to do the same.

Pretty good. I like how if you read this and then look at your sig, and skip to the aprt where it says "One gulp, one swallow, and it's gone" it fits nicely.

[LadyGrey 6]

Pretty good. I like how if you read this and then look at your sig, and skip to the aprt where it says "One gulp, one swallow, and it's gone" it fits nicely.

A LUMP OF BUTTER IN THE MOUTH OF A DOG!

[SBriand 4]

A LUMP OF BUTTER IN THE MOUTH OF A DOG!

Sinner!

[speedz99 145]

God has an issue with people not listening.

Just to be clear...the God you say is full of grace and mercy told a man to fuck his brother's wife. When the man chose not to do it, God killed him and (I assume) sent him to an eternity of torture in hell. Because he wouldn't fuck his brother's wife. Because he wouldn't fuck his brother's wife.You really think this is the action of an entity full of grace and mercy? I'd say it's the complete opposite. And this is just one example. We don't even have to talk about the fact that it's so incredibly far-fetched.

[LadyGrey 6]

Just to be clear...the God you say is full of grace and mercy told a man to fuck his brother's wife. When the man chose not to do it, God killed him and (I assume) sent him to an eternity of torture in hell. Because he wouldn't fuck his brother's wife. Because he wouldn't fuck his brother's wife.You really think this is the action of an entity full of grace and mercy? I'd say it's the complete opposite. And this is just one example. We don't even have to talk about the fact that it's so incredibly far-fetched.

The christians like to quote from the old testament when it suits them, but it when it doesn't match their views they say only the new testament counts. Old testament = vengeful god, new testament = loving god, right?

[checkymcfold 0]

question, one that i've asked before elsewhere, but it's probably more pertinent here:what exactly is the status of paul's letters for you "christians"? do you read them as the inspired word of god--infallable, to be literally interpreted, and all that other good stuff--or are you open to the idea that paul's writings to various churches in various areas may have to be contextualized in order to be understood properly?edit: i'm perfectly willing (and equipped) to debate the status of homosexuality for christians in either context, but i'd like to know which direction i need to go before i begin.

[brvheart 1,751]

Yes, it can, or I wouldn't have said it.Genesis 38 7 And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. 8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. 9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. 10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.God wants Onan to inseminate his brother's wife, but Onan doesn't want to so he "spilled it on the ground" i.e. ejaculated without being inside her i.e. masturbated.I don't use the bible to form my opinion on anything, but seeing as all the christians in this thread are trying to justify their opinion with bible quotes, the only way to respond is to do the same.

I feel like you guys didn't read my post on this section of scripture that I posted on page 1. This passage has nothing to do with the guy not wanting to screw his brothers wife... because he did. It has nothing to do with masturbation. God's anger had nothing to do with the act of him spilling his seed. This passage is dealing with the fact that the guy did not want to get a lady pregnant with a kid that wouldn't be his heir. So instead of obeying God he purposely screwed the wife and then didn't get her pregnant. Obviously his disobedience is why God was mad.

Just to be clear...the God you say is full of grace and mercy told a man to fuck his brother's wife. When the man chose not to do it, God killed him and (I assume) sent him to an eternity of torture in hell. Because he wouldn't fuck his brother's wife. Because he wouldn't fuck his brother's wife.You really think this is the action of an entity full of grace and mercy? I'd say it's the complete opposite. And this is just one example. We don't even have to talk about the fact that it's so incredibly far-fetched.

The man did **** his brother's wife. He just purposefully didn't get her pregnant because he didn't want to father a child that wouldn't be his heir.