Documentary On Homosexuality And Religion

[speedz99 145]

Yes, that specific wording is used and again, everything in your quote is changed in the new testament except for homosexuality,in that we are not bound by the rigors of the old law where it is addressed in the new. So, I am being quite honest, you just don't know the material well enough.

Really? In the new testament God took back the passages mentioned in the old testament? You're right, I don't know the material that well. It'd be great if you could show me where he says that his word in the old testament in those cases should no longer be followed.There's a lot of talk about God's plan for sex. I'm pretty sure that we can all agree that sex is great for things other than procreation. Is there anywhere in the bible that explains why we derive so much pleasure from sex in a purely carnal way (I'm a little drunk and can't figure out how to say that more eloquently)? I can explain it in evolutionary terms, how can it be explained christianically? Yes, I know that's not a word.

[speedz99 145]

On a related note, I think that people who like to say to christians something like "so murder is the same as gay sex in god's eyes", really misunderstand what christians are saying. Yes murder is the same as gay sex in god's eyes, but so is every single sin.

The above has nothing to do with the below.

The reason we punish murders as opposed to homosexuals, is that they are a danger to our society.

[checkymcfold 0]

I never thought I'd say this but I cannot believe the ignorance of the non-christians in this thread. Seriously why is homo sex pointed out as a sin as opposed to hetero sex? The same reason that killing someone in defence is different than murder. God has a specific purpose for sex and it is to be between married couples. Homosexuality is a sin, hetero sex can be a sin, sex before marriage is a sin, cheating on your wife is a sin, wanting to cheat on your wife is a sin. Brvheart and Lois have shown a true understanding of biblical concepts, and shown that understand that there is no higher degree of sin, yet some people seem to act like they are on some anti-homosexual crusade, which they clearly are not.On a related note, I think that people who like to say to christians something like "so murder is the same as gay sex in god's eyes", really misunderstand what christians are saying. Yes murder is the same as gay sex in god's eyes, but so is every single sin. The reason we punish murders as opposed to homosexuals, is that they are a danger to our society. That's what all the "fags burn in hell" type christians don't get, you might as well have a sign that says "Men who disrespect their wives burn in hell". They have a detrimental misunderstanding of the word of god, and are actually more likely to never realize the error of their ways than a guy who killed 12 people for money, because they will never realize the full extent of their sin.All that said, I still think Christianity is BS, as I do with any other religion.

i don't know if you're referring to me, since you quoted something that i said that is a brief way of saying what you just said, but whatever. i don't think that brvheart, BG, or lois or anyone who has posted in this thread hates gays, nor do i think that anyone who can read thinks that. i can't speak for others, but i know that a LOT of people read the religion forum don't post here, and if reading these sorts of discussions can change some of their minds, and perhaps help them to stop hating fags, then that's a good thing.

[bobbywithani 0]

Check I should have clarified my post when calling some people ignorant, I was attempting to kill two birds with one stone. 1. refute your post and 2. show my disgust at some close minded people that seem to be incapable of rational thought. Nothing you have said so far indicate that you are not attempting to discuss this subject in an understanding and well thought out maner.

[speedz99 145]

2. show my disgust at some close minded people that seem to be incapable of rational thought.

So clarify. What non-christian is being closed minded and incapable of rational thought? And give an example of when and why.

[bobbywithani 0]

lois: can you please point me to the sects of society that are currently being ostracized and condemned both socially and politically for eating shrimp?

Not the point

That long tract doesn't really make much sense. Obviously the bible can be interpreted in different ways, often wrongly, but it seems to me that the part saying they are worthy of death isn't for the homosexuality, but for the sins listed, e.g. envy, murder, disobedience to parents etc.

Doesn't matter. Since Jesus came and died for our sins he taught us a new way to deal with sin, and changed the Old Testament law. Now we turn the other cheek as opposed to killing people for any infraction.

It's so weird to me that people really think this. I wish I could be around in a few thousand years (if humans are still around) to see people viewing thoughts like this the same way we view the old greek gods.

Although I agree with you, you are attempting to argue against what and what is not a sin in the views of christianity by simply saying "christianity is stupid". Enough ignorant statements for you

[speedz99 145]

Really? Those are example of what you call 'ignorance'? Ok.

Although I agree with you, you are attempting to argue against what and what is not a sin in the views of christianity by simply saying "christianity is stupid". Enough ignorant statements for you

It was an observation. It wasn't an argument for or against anything. My comments as an non-christian are a lot different from when I try to argue about what is a sin "in the views of christianity".

[bobbywithani 0]

Really? Those are example of what you call 'ignorance'? Ok.It was an observation. It wasn't an argument for or against anything. My comments as an non-christian are a lot different from when I try to argue about what is a sin "in the views of christianity".

Then why are you posting about a movie which is attempting to prove that homosexuality is ok in the eyes of God? If you are going to have any pros or cons in relation to this subject it has to be on the foundation that Christianity is true.

[speedz99 145]

Then why are you posting about a movie which is attempting to prove that homosexuality is ok in the eyes of God?

If you are going to have any pros or cons in relation to this subject it has to be on the foundation that Christianity is true.Ok, well either you're not around much or I'm not as transparent as I assumed. I think that to most people here it's obvious when I'm speaking as an atheist versus when I'm trying to understand exactly what Christians are thinking. I flip-flop between the two depending on which makes the conversation the most interesting, but hopefully people can see that.

[bobbywithani 0]

Ok, well either you're not around much or I'm not as transparent as I assumed. I think that to most people here it's obvious when I'm speaking as an atheist versus when I'm trying to understand exactly what Christians are thinking. I flip-flop between the two depending on which makes the conversation the most interesting, but hopefully people can see that.

I understand, but acting as an athiest is not really relavant to to this particular discussion, because the debate has nothing to do with whether or not God is real of Chistianity is the true faith. It is based on the assumption that Christianity is real, and since it does whether or not homosexuality is accepted under said belief.It would be the same as if we were debating on if Superman or Green Latern would win in a fight, and some dude comes up and says "Jean Grey could destroy both of them". Well why that may be true(in my opinion at least), it adds nothing to the current discussion and should be viewed as nonsense.

[speedz99 145]

I understand, but acting as an athiest is not really relavant to to this particular discussion, because the debate has nothing to do with whether or not God is real of Chistianity is the true faith. It is based on the assumption that Christianity is real, and since it does whether or not homosexuality is accepted under said belief.

No, you don't understand. It has nothing to do with relevance because I'm not trying to make it part of the discussion. It's possible to make side comments during conversations that don't fall under "ignorance". I can't believe we're even still talking about this.

It would be the same as if we were debating on if Superman or Green Latern would win in a fight, and some dude comes up and says "Jean Grey could destroy both of them".

You make a good point and Jean Grey. She's underrated.

it adds nothing to the current discussion and should be viewed as nonsense.

Exactly. Until you mistake it for something that should even be included in the conversation. And what I'm saying is that I hope most people view it in a different way from you. If they agree with you then I guess you're right, I should stop including anything like that in threads like this. I should just save every shred of my own opinion for threads that are only there for shredding religious ideas.

[bobbywithani 0]

I can't believe we're even still talking about this. You make a good point and Jean Grey. She's underrated.

I agree, it's silly to discuss such matters. We had a pro and con discussion of the Age of Apocalypse series in the Iron Man thread, but one thing thing that that the AOA series showed was the awesomeness that was X-Man, he was Cable, but did not have to dedicate most of his power to keeping himself alive fighting off the Legacy Virus. Point being, Jean Grey and Cyclops produced the most powerfull mutant ever imaginable. That seed could have only come from genes as awesome as Jean's.

[speedz99 145]

I agree, it's silly to discuss such matters. We had a pro and con discussion of the Age of Apocalypse series in the Iron Man thread, but one thing thing that that the AOA series showed was the awesomeness that was X-Man, he was Cable, but did not have to dedicate most of his power to keeping himself alive fighting off the Legacy Virus. Point being, Jean Grey and Cyclops produced the most powerfull mutant ever imaginable. That seed could have only come from genes as awesome as Jean's.

I'm glad you said it so I didn't have to.

[Loismustdie 0]

Hi. This nerd talk, well, giving me a chubby.

[Balloon guy 158]

get on scott to arrange a you, me, him, dn foursome later in june. not joking. :)i also can hit that nike sq driver a good 20-30 yards further than my precept. i might have been able to give you a run for your money.

Now who has the blind faith?

[brvheart 1,752]

FYI I haven't watched it all yet, but the first few minutes are so damn entertaining that my expectations are high for the rest of the documentary.The blurb on googlevids:For The Bible Tells Me So - 98 minAn exploration of the intersection between religion and homosexuality in the U.S. and some religious have used its interpretation of the Bible to stigmatize the gay community. We meet five Christian families, each with a gay or lesbian child. Parents talk about their marriages and church-going, their children's childhood and coming out, their reactions, and changes over time. The stories told by these nine parents and four adult children alternate with talking heads - Protestant and Jewish theologians - and with film clips of fundamentalist preachers and pundits and news clips of people in the street. They discuss scripture and biblical scholarship. A thesis of the film is that much of Christianity's homophobia represents a misreading of scripture, a denial of science, and an embrace of quack psychology. The families call for love.Watch it here and share your thoughts and reaction: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=80...12330&hl=en

I received it in the mail from Netflix this morning and popped it in the DVD player immediately. I really really liked it. It was well made. That being said, as I was worried about, it was incredibly one-sided. If fact, out of the entire movie, I'm not sure that they interviewed one evangelical Christian, and since there are millions of them throughout the country, that made me sad. I also learned that I disagree with James Dobson's view of homosexuality. He, at some point in his life, thought it was a disorder. I, on the other hand, believe that it's something that people are born with. To thoroughly discuss this movie, I almost need to watch it with you or make a post that's extremely long. Do you have any specific questions? Or should I watch it again and make notes throughout the movie? Also, I'm pretty surprised that Dobson didn't talk with that one family. Maybe he didn't know they were there... obviously it was a publicity stunt, but if I was Dobson, I would have talked to them.I was impressed with the quality of the people they found to interview. Specifically the NH bishop that made the news a few years back and Dick Gephardt. I'm sad they didn't get Dick Cheney, that would have made the movie incredible.

[LadyGrey 6]

I received it in the mail from Netflix this morning and popped it in the DVD player immediately. I really really liked it. It was well made. That being said, as I was worried about, it was incredibly one-sided. If fact, out of the entire movie, I'm not sure that they interviewed one evangelical Christian, and since there are millions of them throughout the country, that made me sad. I also learned that I disagree with James Dobson's view of homosexuality. He, at some point in his life, thought it was a disorder. I, on the other hand, believe that it's something that people are born with. To thoroughly discuss this movie, I almost need to watch it with you or make a post that's extremely long. Do you have any specific questions? Or should I watch it again and make notes throughout the movie? Also, I'm pretty surprised that Dobson didn't talk with that one family. Maybe he didn't know they were there... obviously it was a publicity stunt, but if I was Dobson, I would have talked to them.I was impressed with the quality of the people they found to interview. Specifically the NH bishop that made the news a few years back and Dick Gephardt. I'm sad they didn't get Dick Cheney, that would have made the movie incredible.

Come on, they had Desmond Tutu in it. I love him, he gives religious people a good name (and I don't just mean 'Tutu', which is coincidentally an awesome name). I didn't realise that you are an evangelical christian. I watched the documentary 'Jesus Camp' the other day and decided that I absolutely loathe evangelical christians. They pretty much encapsulate everything I detest about religion.

[brvheart 1,752]

Come on, they had Desmond Tutu in it. I love him, he gives religious people a good name (and I don't just mean 'Tutu', which is coincidentally an awesome name). I didn't realise that you are an evangelical christian. I watched the documentary 'Jesus Camp' the other day and decided that I absolutely loathe evangelical christians. They pretty much encapsulate everything I detest about religion.

This made me laugh out loud. Jesus Camp is awesome. Those people are not evangelical born-again Christians. Those people are pentecostal Christians. Be careful to know the difference between doctrines and not just take the label that the director gives them. The same exact type of people were in the Borat movie. I am NOT a pentecostal Christian.BTW, all Christians should be evangelicals. Jesus tells us to evangelize the world in Matthew 28. Labels are terrible because then people assume they know what you are, when they don't. I could say I'm born-again, and then most Catholics/ Lutherans / Methodists would immediately say... AHHH HAA!! you're one of those! It's funny because in their own Bible in John 3 Jesus says you must be born-again. So in summary I hate labels, and I'm nothing like the people in Jesus camp or in the Borat movie, who I also dislike. Also add the people in Saved! among those Christians with whom I have next to nothing in common with. Media completely ignores the Christian churches that I am a part of, because they aren't shocking or crazy. So people see these other movies, they see the labels that directors put on the people in them, and then they assume that anyone that identifies themselves with that label are the same. It's totally false.Also, I have no idea who Desmond Tutu was/is... but most of the things he said in this movie were really bad from a Biblical point of view. It was absolutely by the book responses that Lois and I hear constantly. "I can't imagine that God would reject this good person because of xxxxxx". If you can't imagine it, then you have never read the Bible and understand nothing about the Biblical God.

[LadyGrey 6]

This made me laugh out loud. Jesus Camp is awesome. Those people are not evangelical born-again Christians. Those people are pentecostal Christians. Be careful to know the difference between doctrines and not just take the label that the director gives them. The same exact type of people were in the Borat movie. I am NOT a pentecostal Christian.Also, I have no idea who Desmond Tutu was/is... but most of the things he said in this movie were really bad from a Biblical point of view.

I am pretty sure they called themselves evangelical christians in the film. It's not the crazy stuff I am talking about, I know most christians aren't like that, but the pro-abortion, anti-gay, morally-superior shit is what gets my goat.Desmond Tutu is a famous South African archbishop who has won the Nobel Peace Prize among many other awards. He has spent his life promoting human rights and trying to improve the quality of life for the poor. He is a role model for everyone.

[Balloon guy 158]

Bartlet: I like your show. I like how you call homosexuality an abomination.Dr. Jenna Jacobs: I don't say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.President Josiah Bartlet: Yes it does. Leviticus.Dr. Jenna Jacobs: 18:22.President Josiah Bartlet: Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I have you here. I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She's a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be? While thinking about that, can I ask another? My Chief of Staff Leo McGarry insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it okay to call the police? Here's one that's really important because we've got a lot of sports fans in this town: touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you? One last thing: while you may be mistaking this for your monthly meeting of the Ignorant Tight-Ass Club, in this building, when the President stands, nobody sits.

You know the pigskin thing is just a label, they are all made of leather from cows...have been for decades.And most of those 'laws' are applicaple to pre-NT Jews only, not ever to Chrisitans or gentilesYou would do well not to use anything Hollywood puts out as your basis for how you think about a topic. And if a Sheen is involved, you should really relegate it to the 'entertainment only, and barely at that' pile.Remember when Martin Sheen slept on a grate to show his solidarity to the homeless? Could have let a homeless guy sleep in one of his mansions for the night...

[Balloon guy 158]

I am pretty sure they called themselves evangelical christians in the film. It's not the crazy stuff I am talking about, I know most christians aren't like that, but the pro-abortion, anti-gay, morally-superior shit is what gets my goat.Desmond Tutu is a famous South African archbishop who has won the Nobel Peace Prize among many other awards. He has spent his life promoting human rights and trying to improve the quality of life for the poor. He is a role model for everyone.

Who are these pro-abortion Christians?And if the morality is superior, does it matter who represents it? Democray is a good form of government, regardles of how bad Clinton was.

[LadyGrey 6]

Who are these pro-abortion Christians?And if the morality is superior, does it matter who represents it? Democray is a good form of government, regardles of how bad Clinton was.

Oops, I meant anti-abortion. Morality is subjective.

[speedz99 145]

And most of those 'laws' are applicaple to pre-NT Jews only, not ever to Chrisitans or gentiles

Will one of you please just admit that you're all very subjective about what you choose to believe in and follow from the OT?

You would do well not to use anything Hollywood puts out as your basis for how you think about a topic.

I'll seriously consider this. It's true...before watching that 45 seconds of the West Wing I was a bible thumping gay basher, but after hearing that speech I totally changed my mind. I guess that's the power of television for ya.

[Sal Paradise 57]

Not the point

An exploration of the intersection between religion and homosexuality in the U.S. and some religious have used its interpretation of the Bible to stigmatize the gay community.

yes it is.

[David_Nicoson 1]

I'm sorry, but are you arguing that the bible is perfectly clear in all its instructions?

No, of course not.

As for that passage in particular, it's kind of funny that you're so fired up about there being no chance in hell that "spilling seed" could be construed as beating off as opposed to pulling out. Of course it can be taken that way (even if it's a stretch) without it necessarily being an agenda thing. You're being pretty thick-headed about this one. And this is coming from someone who strongly prefers your interpretation (now that I've heard and understand it).

The really blazingly obvious part is not only that Onan pulled out rather than masturbated; it's that the instructions from Judah were directly to Onan in the context of the situation, not instructions from God to people in general.It's like taking the story of Lot to mean that we shouldn't look over our shoulders.