How Much Influence Did Daniel Have?

[cemo76 0]

Whats up Daniel,Alot of talk around here in Toronto is you were the one who backed up this idea of delaying the final table.As we all know you have alot of influence on the WSOP so how much of thisis going to be put on your shoulders whether it is good or bad? Will you be held accountable?I for one think it is RIDICULOUS!First and foremost POKER is agame of streaks and who is to say the man dominating the field doesn't go cold,doesn't make the same reads he built getting to the final table. Secondly what if someone passes away? I remember some guy had a heart attact recently at the MAin event and almost passed away so what if something like that happens?Thirdly what about COLLUSION? I like player B and propose we work together over the 3 months tomake sure we win the tourney together?Fourthly what about the fact that I, who am playing a far much better game over playerBwho satelited into the main event and am ready to rollover him on the final table gets 3 monthscoaching from Chris Fergusun or Doyle Brunson. Is that FAIR TO ME?TOTALLY TOTALLY STUPID DANIEL. I THINK YOU MADE A MISTAKE BACKING THIS IDEA FOR RATINGS!ps. Aren't you the one that always preaches the integrity of the game, and how the old school days were the best days? THis is way too SURVIOR AMERICAN IDOL BIG BROTHER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Peace

[Lee_LightsOut_B 0]

While I have mixed feelings on this new "Delay" Format I kinda like the idea though i truly feel their are some serious cons to it, but all in all I kinda believe it will add a new dimension to the final table. In the end I believe that you are still going to have the typical final table blow ups due to the ever present pressure. Which will make for some more amazing Phil Helm moments where you see people blow up and loose 25 mill in chips in 30 hands. While some coaching is going to be inevitable I truly believe no amount of coaching will prepare the final 9 for the pressure they will encounter we all after all are human and emotions play a huge part in this game and the one who has the best control usually wins!!! The downside in my opinion is the ability of your opponets to study you on your journey to the final table thus neutralizing your game some and not truly allowing you to dance the same dance that got you there. Will this be a hit? Time will tell some I anxiously await the final outcome of this "experiment" per se and what hopefully will be a wild ride as the WSOP usuaklly is anyways.

[Big Mike Watters 0]

I kinda still against the idea...however...after reading DN's blog, I understand what they are trying to do, and agree that if it doesn't work...there is always next year. It still sounds bad on the surface tho...

[irishguy 14]

Putting the success or failure of this on Daniel alone seems a tad dramatic. This was decided on by the WSOP and the committe of players that they work with. I'm not positive but generally these things are put to a vote and the ultimate decision is then made by the WSOP. You should also maybe add a third option to your poll for say undecided/ willing to give it a shot. Also any arguements that are made to how this could unfairly affect the players that make it that far to me are in line with those that boycotted the WPT (Not the samething but a comparison). If you don't want to play under the structure or means that has been set out then it's simple don't. Players who are opposed to the concept not playing would surely send a message regardless of how the rating do.

[nutzbuster 7]

Whats up Daniel,Alot of talk around here in Toronto is you were the one who backed up this idea of delaying the final table.As we all know you have alot of influence on the WSOP so how much of thisis going to be put on your shoulders whether it is good or bad? Will you be held accountable?I for one think it is RIDICULOUS!First and foremost POKER is agame of streaks and who is to say the man dominating the field doesn't go cold,doesn't make the same reads he built getting to the final table. Secondly what if someone passes away? I remember some guy had a heart attact recently at the MAin event and almost passed away so what if something like that happens?Thirdly what about COLLUSION? I like player B and propose we work together over the 3 months tomake sure we win the tourney together?Fourthly what about the fact that I, who am playing a far much better game over playerBwho satelited into the main event and am ready to rollover him on the final table gets 3 monthscoaching from Chris Fergusun or Doyle Brunson. Is that FAIR TO ME?TOTALLY TOTALLY STUPID DANIEL. I THINK YOU MADE A MISTAKE BACKING THIS IDEA FOR RATINGS!ps. Aren't you the one that always preaches the integrity of the game, and how the old school days were the best days? THis is way too SURVIOR AMERICAN IDOL BIG BROTHER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Peace

Another calm, well thought out, non insulting, respectful, non contentious, rational post. Well done. That aside, I actually don't like the idea of delaying the FT for several reasons, not the least of which would be the fact that perhaps some of the participants may not be able to return to play it. (illness, work obligations, etc.)And I agree that sometimes players get in a zone and momentum can play a huge roll, losing a psychological edge is a real concern. Folks will also have several weeks to analyze each others plays and gain advantage that way, there are many reasons why this is not a great idea.I do love the idea of getting to watch it live however. No idea how this could be done fairly for all.

[cemo76 0]

Wow, NUTZ and I kinda agree I guess:)I am not Bashing Daniel at all, although it is known around the Poker Circuit that the WSOPgoes to Daniel with any of it's ideas. (This is what I have heard)So I am saying Daniel Bares some say in the whole scheme of things. I will be playing the Main Event and would only wish to FINAL TABLE so I could have this problem or oppurtunityhowever you look at it. It will be advantagous to younger players looking to commercialize themselves. It will be bad for the private older gentleman woman just looking to score a huge payday? Overall though it is a terrible IDEA! Take for example the WORLD CUP OF SOCCER. Early Rounds teams are fighting to survive and get momentum to move into the finals. Once there , HOLD ON! Were gonna give you guys 3 months off, too study tape, regroup and refresh from injuries, read about your opponent and practive with PELE. Also if you want you can talk to the other team and see if you want to tie and split the cup in half! Donkey MOVE!

[Danny Dingleberry 0]

what if someone survived a 3-way all in right on the FT bubble to be left with less than a single blind and be dealt in the big blind? 3 months just to get J 3o and lose a 2-1 to A 9... that would make me laugh

[DanielNegreanu 141]

what if someone survived a 3-way all in right on the FT bubble to be left with less than a single blind and be dealt in the big blind? 3 months just to get J 3o and lose a 2-1 to A 9... that would make me laugh

That would garner tons of media and could turn out to be quite funny also. Odds of him winning, odds of him getting Q high or better, etc. Could be fun. To address cemo, I had some influence for sure. I am on the committee as are several other professional poker players, business people, Harrah's reps, 411 Productions, ESPN reps, amateur poker players, etc. We discussed each and every possible outcome or danger involved with this idea, and in the end, we all felt like the potential positives were worth the risk. If it backfires, "Oh well," they won't do it again. In 1997 Stu Ungar won the WSOP out on the street in the middle of July... in 115 degree heat! That happened once, and then they realized how dumb that idea actually was! As far as winning the main event goes, this change helps the amateur player FAR MORE SO than the pro. For example, if I make the final table the others at the table can find a whole library of footage of me on TV as well the ability to hire a coach. What will I get? I could get a coach too, but I won't have a library of hands. I may get 3-4 hands that were shown on ESPN tops. Myself, other top pros, and poker in general could all benefit in other ways. Just think about the media attention for those players going back to their home countries in that span. It opens up the possibility that we can hit new markets by really getting the mainstream's interest in this big final. It's something that's never been possible with poker in the past, and it's worth a try to see if it elevates the game for all. And yes, I do understand ALL of the potential problems that could occur..

[nutzbuster 7]

well, as with any change, it can be stressful, scary, etc. Fear of the unknown, pretty typical.I hope this all works out. In theory I actually like the idea a lot (i.e. watching it LIVE)

[copernicus 0]

In 1997 Stu Ungar won the WSOP out on the street in the middle of July... in 115 degree heat! That happened once, and then they realized how dumb that idea actually was!

Hard to believe that was only 11 years ago.

[nutzbuster 7]

Hard to believe that was only 11 years ago.

Wow...that is strange. Every time I hear things about Stu, in my mind I imagine it like it's the 1960's or something. No idea why.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

I think it's a good idea. As it is now, the winner is well known long before the FT airs. Is the same were true of the Super Bowl, would that game still have the ratings it does? Of course not. Expanding the game's popularity and media coverage, without harming the integrity of the game, is the goal here. Having a chance to rest up so that exhaustion isn't a factor, having a coach, studying the other players -- none of that really harms the integrity of the game. On the contrary, I could easily see it creating a purer, higher-level FT. The harm comes in the possibility of collusion, and that is something the WSOP would have to stay on top of. But that's a threat in other sports as well -- just ask the 1919 White Sox, Pete Rose, or some boxers. As long as that's avoided, I think this is an idea well worth trying.

[PokerMiz 0]

As far as winning the main event goes, this change helps the amateur player FAR MORE SO than the pro. For example, if I make the final table the others at the table can find a whole library of footage of me on TV as well the ability to hire a coach. What will I get? I could get a coach too, but I won't have a library of hands. I may get 3-4 hands that were shown on ESPN tops. Myself, other top pros, and poker in general could all benefit in other ways. Just think about the media attention for those players going back to their home countries in that span. It opens up the possibility that we can hit new markets by really getting the mainstream's interest in this big final. It's something that's never been possible with poker in the past, and it's worth a try to see if it elevates the game for all.And yes, I do understand ALL of the potential problems that could occur..

While from a business perspective I can see where the WSOP is going with this, from a player's perspective I have concerns with it. For example:1. (This being my biggest pet peeve) You are giving 3 months of time for the FT players to enhance their game before playing. What other sport, since I've been reading that the hope is people will view poker more as a sport than a gambling game, allows that kind of time frame for a team to "perfect" its game before the final game? You don't get that kind of time in the World Series, the Super Bowl, Tennis, Golf....I would say the closest exception would be the Bowl game in college football where they have about a month to prepare...but that aside...how could you say that this is a benefit? If I'm making the FT and there's a donk sitting there, why would I consider his ability to learn more in 3months during the break be advantageous?2. You mention that the statistics show that the US population tends to favor reality tv, and this is a good advantage for the poker community. You already have "reality TV" -centered shows....High Stakes and Poker After Dark. How are the ratings for those? I can't imagine that the ratings are stellar; considering the time that Poker After Dark is aired, and the speculation from what I've been reading in the forums, the decision to have a Season 5 High Stakes is up in the air. Why would this be any different for the WSOP?3. You are interrupting the momentum and tradition of the game. The build up, from Day 1 to the final table, is the driving force and the FT players take that momentum and grind through the endless hours of playing. That won't change until the FT, but it will happen. Part of that momentum could be a result of a player running hot and catching cards (i.e. Jamie Gold), feeling unbeatable, knowing you grinded it out all of those hours to make it to the FT and you can't be stopped...and then you're stopped from playing it out for 3 months. You lose that momentum. In fact, in that amount of time you can go from running hot to being card decked and you can't hit a flop or make a hand no matter what skill you have. It happens to the best of them. Stick with the tradition of finishing it out and playing the game as it should be played. If you're trying to draw more hype and buzz to the final table, you should do it without changing the game.4. The hope is that the media hype and 15mins of fame for those players will not only draw a bigger audience to the poker community, but help establish it as a "sport" rather than the negotive gambling connotation that it has. Statistics show that the old saying "Set in their ways" is true, and you're hoping to get those target groups to change their perspective because you now categorize the game as a "sport"?

[irishguy 14]

While from a business perspective I can see where the WSOP is going with this, I just don't understand some of the logic behind it. For example:1. My biggest pet peeve with this, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, is that you are giving 3 months of time for the FT players to enhance their game before playing. What other sport, since I've been reading that the hope is people will view poker more as a sport than a gambling game, allows that kind of time frame for a team to "perfect" its game before the final game?

MMA, Boxing etc. What other sports have a championship game finish and the results made public before it's even aired on TV?

[Nimue1995 1]

I admit my first instinct on hearing this was "YECH!" but as I've given it more thought it occurs to me that this could take poker into the mainstream. And if we're going to get internet poker legalized in the United States, we need it to get a more positive image to convince people that it's not evil or whatever their reason for opposing it is. It needs to be shown to be a game of skill and not just luck and a legitimate "sport". Plus anyone that says any other sport doesn't involve luck is an idiot,lol. There are a great number of people that still have that smoke-filled backroom image of poker and that needs to change if we're going to get internet poker legal here.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

While from a business perspective I can see where the WSOP is going with this, from a player's perspective I have concerns with it. For example:

This is exactly it, though: the WSOP isn't out to create advantages to any one player. It's trying to help the game itself, to give it a higher profile, more suspense (by eliminating the fact that you've already known the winner for several weeke before you see it air), and yes, even a better level of play at the FT. If a player improves his game in 3 months, does it help you as an opposing player? No. But it DOES help the game, by taking the level of play higher. Other than the other players at the table, who wants to see a donkfest at the final table?Nimue's point it also true -- if this plan works and the WSOP becomes a major event of interest to a far larger number of viewers than it is now, that creates sympathy and support for bringing online poker back to the US. If it stays a tiny, cult-following game that swell of support never materializes.BTW, I don't know what the hold-up is with a fifth season of HSP, but the WPT very quickly became the top-rated program on the Travel Channel, crushing everything else on the channel except Anthony Bourdain. I honestly wouldn't be able to wrap my mind around any scenario where HSP is NOT the top-rated program by miles on GSN ... I mean, who watches re-runs of 20-year-old game shows when Monday nights are HSP? I expanded my cable service JUST to get that channel for Monday nights, and I never watch it otherwise. The interest among viewers is definiately there, but the Main Event suffers from already knowing the outcome.If there were to be a big backlash among players, I wonder if it would be possible to hold the FT hehind closed doors and embargo the winner for a few months. I was a Jeopardy contestant last year. The show taped in January and aired in March. Until it aired I wasn't allowed to tell anyone but family how I'd done. All the reality shows film their finales months before they air, but they do it before such a small group of people that keeping them quiet is easy. If the FT were played in private, it could work the same way.

[EdwardGreene1 0]

I have no idea what went on behind the scenes for this, so I have no idea if this was posted, but was there any talk about either doing a trial with:A) a circuit event championship, especially one like the Ceaser's Palace tourny just held that Cunningham won which usually has a strong pro showing, play the start in late april like they did, then play the FT the day before ESPN starts their shows in July and air it as the first episode for practice, it's also only a 2-month delay thenB) the 50K HORSE event, again the pro factor can make it a big draw and help promote the lesser known pros, the coaching thing gets negated since most already have played with each other, and it's one of the two biggest tournaments at the WS nowIt just seems to me doing this with the Main Event seems really weird for a trial run, but again, Daniel said they have talked about a lot of the pros and cons, so I guess this is the best option. IMHO, this will either be an amazing success or a gigantic flop, don't see much middle ground here.

[grimtaash 0]

I think it's a pretty nifty idea to try. Who knows if it will be good or bad. I say give it a chance first. I'd say it can do nothing but improve the ratings for the show. Not knowing the winner beforehand should make it much more exciting to watch. Sure, there are potential problems with the idea. If someone dies, it's gonna be a problem. Seems a small possibility. I think the only thing that would be a major concern would be the possibility of collusion. And I suspect that all players will be reminded that collusion is bad. And reminded that all the hands are on camera. All things considered, I'm looking forward to it. If it fails, then they can decide to not do it next year.

[mase_gotsem 0]

make it rake free and then try any format you want .

[grocery_mony 8]

That would garner tons of media and could turn out to be quite funny also. Odds of him winning, odds of him getting Q high or better, etc. Could be fun. To address cemo, I had some influence for sure. I am on the committee as are several other professional poker players, business people, Harrah's reps, 411 Productions, ESPN reps, amateur poker players, etc. We discussed each and every possible outcome or danger involved with this idea, and in the end, we all felt like the potential positives were worth the risk. If it backfires, "Oh well," they won't do it again. In 1997 Stu Ungar won the WSOP out on the street in the middle of July... in 115 degree heat! That happened once, and then they realized how dumb that idea actually was! As far as winning the main event goes, this change helps the amateur player FAR MORE SO than the pro. For example, if I make the final table the others at the table can find a whole library of footage of me on TV as well the ability to hire a coach. What will I get? I could get a coach too, but I won't have a library of hands. I may get 3-4 hands that were shown on ESPN tops. Myself, other top pros, and poker in general could all benefit in other ways. Just think about the media attention for those players going back to their home countries in that span. It opens up the possibility that we can hit new markets by really getting the mainstream's interest in this big final. It's something that's never been possible with poker in the past, and it's worth a try to see if it elevates the game for all. And yes, I do understand ALL of the potential problems that could occur..

Oh well, someone might lose millions because of this? The part that really bothers me about this is not the fact that someone might die and that nonsence but the outcome of this event will be changed because of the layoff. You would agree that confidence and momentum are huge in poker, especially a event like this. Well all of that is gonna be toast going into the most critical part of a tourny. And for what? If anyone in North America didnt get hooked on poker before now with all the exposure its received(to the point of over saturation) this gimmick isnt gonna convert them. If ESPN and Harrahs want to expirement with reality tv let them do it on there own dime.

[grimtaash 0]

Oh well, someone might lose millions because of this? The part that really bothers me about this is not the fact that someone might die and that nonsence but the outcome of this event will be changed because of the layoff. You would agree that confidence and momentum are huge in poker, especially a event like this. Well all of that is gonna be toast going into the most critical part of a tourny. And for what? If anyone in North America didnt get hooked on poker before now with all the exposure its received(to the point of over saturation) this gimmick isnt gonna convert them. If ESPN and Harrahs want to expirement with reality tv let them do it on there own dime.

\You can't say the outcome will be changed anymore than I can say the outcome will not be changed.

[Balloon guy 158]

Well the good news is don't have to put my hands over my ears for 3 months so that the FT is a surprise for me anymore.Plus if I make the FT I can work some Producer's type scams and sell 800% of me all across the country, then donk off early and pocket the profits.Next I hope they add jogging and eating contest during the FT. Might as well get a shark and motorcycle ready too while you're at it.

[Nimue1995 1]

Oh well, someone might lose millions because of this? The part that really bothers me about this is not the fact that someone might die and that nonsence but the outcome of this event will be changed because of the layoff. You would agree that confidence and momentum are huge in poker, especially a event like this. Well all of that is gonna be toast going into the most critical part of a tourny. And for what? If anyone in North America didnt get hooked on poker before now with all the exposure its received(to the point of over saturation) this gimmick isnt gonna convert them. If ESPN and Harrahs want to expirement with reality tv let them do it on there own dime.

You don't get it. Regardless of how much you pay to buy into the tournament it IS ESPN and Harrah's dime because it's their participation that makes it happen. If you didn't have a venue to host the ME and if you didn't have any TV network interested in broadcasting it, then you'd not have a tournament PERIOD. It's like Daniel said, if Harrah's finds it too much of a hassle for the money they make off of it and if ESPN finds the ratings too disappointing to broadcast it then you won't have it. Get a grip people! DO YOU WANT INTERNET POKER TO BE LEGAL AGAIN IN THE U.S. OR NOT? Do you want to have a successful WSOP ME or do you just want to see it die? Change happens. People get bored with the same old thing year after year. And everyone should be getting sick of the donkfest that the ME has become. Delaying the FT and even letting the players get coached, in my opinion would make for much better play than the present system. And if it doesn't well then guess what? They won't do it again. Instead of tearing the idea down because it's a change from how it's always been done, let's give it a chance and just see how it will work.

[grocery_mony 8]

You don't get it. Regardless of how much you pay to buy into the tournament it IS ESPN and Harrah's dime because it's their participation that makes it happen. If you didn't have a venue to host the ME and if you didn't have any TV network interested in broadcasting it, then you'd not have a tournament PERIOD. It's like Daniel said, if Harrah's finds it too much of a hassle for the money they make off of it and if ESPN finds the ratings too disappointing to broadcast it then you won't have it. Get a grip people! DO YOU WANT INTERNET POKER TO BE LEGAL AGAIN IN THE U.S. OR NOT? Do you want to have a successful WSOP ME or do you just want to see it die? Change happens. People get bored with the same old thing year after year. And everyone should be getting sick of the donkfest that the ME has become. Delaying the FT and even letting the players get coached, in my opinion would make for much better play than the present system. And if it doesn't well then guess what? They won't do it again. Instead of tearing the idea down because it's a change from how it's always been done, let's give it a chance and just see how it will work.

To understand my point of view you must think this change will fundamentally change the event. So if Harrahs and ESPN dont fundamentally change the biggest tourney of the year the WSOP will go broke and ESPN will stop broadcasting something that has been broadcast since the early 80's? The customer always has the right to complain. Sorry I cant go along with fundamentally changing a tournament for the sole purpose of profit without complaining. Pokers tv popularity is shrinking from overexposure and sheer boredom of watching coinflips over and over. This is selling the soul of the one thing in poker that has history by people who are just trying to improve the balance sheet for a quarter. If you dont belive this fundamentally changes what a tournament is about I guess you cant understand my point of view.

[JustDoIt 10]

You don't get it. Regardless of how much you pay to buy into the tournament it IS ESPN and Harrah's dime because it's their participation that makes it happen. If you didn't have a venue to host the ME and if you didn't have any TV network interested in broadcasting it, then you'd not have a tournament PERIOD. It's like Daniel said, if Harrah's finds it too much of a hassle for the money they make off of it and if ESPN finds the ratings too disappointing to broadcast it then you won't have it. Get a grip people! DO YOU WANT INTERNET POKER TO BE LEGAL AGAIN IN THE U.S. OR NOT? Do you want to have a successful WSOP ME or do you just want to see it die? Change happens. People get bored with the same old thing year after year. And everyone should be getting sick of the donkfest that the ME has become. Delaying the FT and even letting the players get coached, in my opinion would make for much better play than the present system. And if it doesn't well then guess what? They won't do it again. Instead of tearing the idea down because it's a change from how it's always been done, let's give it a chance and just see how it will work.

Donkfest, you mean the donkeys driving the poker boom and generating the money that Daniel Negreaunu and other pro’s are swimming in. Think about it, donkfest good.I watched the 2007 Main Event, the one you called a donkfest. Yeah, I saw Scotty Nguyen.