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Wsop 2008 Final Table In November


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He said it sucks because he can't stay up and watch a PPV telecast... Doesn't that imply that there is going to be one?
He can't stay up to watch it..........................BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ONE!!!!
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I know i've been drinking, but I don't see it.
The past 2-3 years everybody has stayed up all night and watched the PPV Broadcast. That can't happen this year.
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He can't stay up to watch it..........................BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ONE!!!!
The past 2-3 years everybody has stayed up all night and watched the PPV Broadcast. That can't happen this year.
And the negative part of not doing that is what exactly?
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Yes! I finally finished reading the whole thread from the begining and now I get to comment. This is STUPID imo. There is so much disaster that could/will happen with this.As I saw in one post before this, what about all the threats and extortion that could occur to the players of the final table? Look what happened to Jamie. There are people murdered in this country all the time for having a great opportunity that others dont (if examples are needed just go HERE). Jealousy happens and it makes people crazy. I see the people who make the FT as a huge target for bad people looking to make money.So why dont they wait 4 months to play and air game 7 of the Stanley Cup since hockey ratings are down in the U.S.? Ya know, that way the ratings go up from all the hype of game 7 right? WRONG. People who are hockey fans will get excited/pissed off like we in this forum are now. People that didnt care about hockey before wont care about hockey four months later and suddenly watch game 7 four months later. If you cant see hockey as a good example pick a sport you really have no interest in and think of it that way.Anyone heard of THIS...

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I never meant that your only motivation was that this will personally benefit you, but you can't deny that you stand to benefit from this greatly.More hype is good for all of us, but I don't know that this type of hype will bring tons more fish to the online games, which would be the biggest benefit to most of us. However, the best thing for your personal wealth out of this is for more people to be buying poker-related products that you endorse or sell, which I believe will increase as a result of more exposure for the WSOP. Not to mention the fact that any talk show that wants to have a recognized guest to talk to a wide audience about the WSOP and the FT, you will be on the short list of guests for those appearances because you are a face recognized by a lot of people outside of poker.It wasn't meant to be offensive, or to say that your support is based on personal greed, but out of anybody outside of Harrah's Corp. I think you stand to benefit as much or more than anybody else.
I'll benefit certainly, but don't kid yourself and think that this couldn't benefit online poker in a big way. Guy from Italy is at the final table... loads of exposure in Italy, loads of new Italian players... guy from Bulgaria is third in chips, he appears on all of the major stations in Bulgaria wearing a PokerStars hat= more fish from Bulgaria... Ben Affleck makes the final table, poker discussed on ET, Inside Edition, etc. much like they do with Dancing with the Stars... more potential to reach a wider demographic. Big picture guys, let's give this a shot one time and if it sucks, meh, no big deal, we change it back.
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I'll benefit certainly, but don't kid yourself and think that this couldn't benefit online poker in a big way. Guy from Italy is at the final table... loads of exposure in Italy, loads of new Italian players... guy from Bulgaria is third in chips, he appears on all of the major stations in Bulgaria wearing a PokerStars hat= more fish from Bulgaria... Ben Affleck makes the final table, poker discussed on ET, Inside Edition, etc. much like they do with Dancing with the Stars... more potential to reach a wider demographic. Big picture guys, let's give this a shot one time and if it sucks, meh, no big deal, we change it back.
What would you say in more likely Daniel, Ben Affleck or another top celeb making the final table to boost poker in the U.S. or something going wrong with the wait to play the final table? Your a smart gambler and I think I know what you would bet on here.
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I'll benefit certainly, but don't kid yourself and think that this couldn't benefit online poker in a big way. Guy from Italy is at the final table... loads of exposure in Italy, loads of new Italian players... guy from Bulgaria is third in chips, he appears on all of the major stations in Bulgaria wearing a PokerStars hat= more fish from Bulgaria... Ben Affleck makes the final table, poker discussed on ET, Inside Edition, etc. much like they do with Dancing with the Stars... more potential to reach a wider demographic. Big picture guys, let's give this a shot one time and if it sucks, meh, no big deal, we change it back.
The scary part is if it is successful. Will they stop? Two years down the road, do we stop the tourney and interview players about hands? Do players start getting introduced like it's wrestling? It invites collusion, it invites cheating, it invites all the things that poker had to overcome in the first place. You think poker is getting lower now? Imagine what happens if it comes out that two players were cheating. Then all these people that think I'm a piece of shit cause I play this game have a point to make. What happens when the story comes out that one of these guys lost all the money they haven't won yet playing online? Is that how you want poker to be represented? Do you think ESPN won't tell that story? It's great for marketing, it's too big of a risk for poker. We are all going to know early anyway, does it make a difference if it's 1 day or 90? Lot's of questions but what are the answers?
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I don't mind trying it out either... but just not sure about it.
You dont have to be sure about it, it can always go back to the way it was. Ill tell you this, I havent watch hardly any of last years wsop on espn, but Ill for sure be watching this final table. And I can see quite a few of my non poker playing friends being interested in it too. Thats good for poker.
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You dont have to be sure about it, it can always go back to the way it was. Ill tell you this, I havent watch hardly any of last years wsop on espn, but Ill for sure be watching this final table. And I can see quite a few of my non poker playing friends being interested in it too. Thats good for poker.
True dat. I didn't watch much last year either. Not even sure if I saw the FT or not.
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I can think of 2 good reasons for this and about 63 horrible ones! My wife and I were going to play in the main even this year but I just switched my reservations to play in earlier events instead. It is just principle to me! This supposed to be good for poker?? Poker is already good! I am very upset about this. I hope it blows up in their faces and it ends up back at Binions in 2009.

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Daniel, its just hard to believe Harrah's motivation is anything close to focused on the players. I will never get over the whole sequestered table thing they did (are still doing?). My final table was one of the best experiences of my life, and a good part of the reason why was because not only a bunch of my friends were in the audience, but the stands were full of people cheering. I cannot image how bad it must have been for the players who made their first WSOP final table and probably learned only the night before that they were going to be locked in a room with only one guest or whatever. How miserable.There are a bunch of other things too, the whole issue with the super hot outside tent last year, the lines to register getting worse and worse each year even though they should have this all down to a science by now, etc etc. I, and most of the players I know, feel taken advantage of by a huge company that makes a TON of money off of us as players, and every year something else where I find myself scratching my head and saying, You have to be kidding me. I hope this helps the poker boom, but I don't see the plus side honestly. I don't see the point really either. Just because the final table is played in July doesn't mean they still can't air it on TV in chronological order just like they have MANY other years. IMO the impact it will have on the play at the final table will be very unfair to a lot of players. This is the most important tourney of the year, and now its bastardized into this weird freak tourney where the final table has 3 months to prepare to play each other. Just seems wrong and changes the integrity of the actual play. (which is different than say, adding hole card cams, which don't change the dynamics at the table)Mark

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I can think of 2 good reasons for this and about 63 horrible ones! My wife and I were going to play in the main even this year but I just switched my reservations to play in earlier events instead. It is just principle to me! This supposed to be good for poker?? Poker is already good! I am very upset about this. I hope it blows up in their faces and it ends up back at Binions in 2009.
Not gonna happen, cause Harrahs doesn't own Binions.
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I can think of 2 good reasons for this and about 63 horrible ones! My wife and I were going to play in the main even this year but I just switched my reservations to play in earlier events instead. It is just principle to me! This supposed to be good for poker?? Poker is already good! I am very upset about this. I hope it blows up in their faces and it ends up back at Binions in 2009.
Im probably gonna regret this but what are your two good reasons, and what are a few of the 63 horrible ones. I understand everyones concerns but really what kinda of irreversable damage could really come out of doing it this way. I find it much more likely that this helps draw new players to the game rather then driving them away.
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The coaching thing is a big issue, if I make an FT with 8 Jerry Yang's and I'm 5th in chips, my equity after the 4 months probably drops by 1 or 2 mil if we assume they all get coached
lol. I guess you think you are better than Jerry Yang? :)We'll come to think of it, you are prob. right.
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IMO i think everyone responds with the thumbs down because of their own selfish reasons. Most of us are poker junkies who get online to look for FT updates and see who is going to win etc. I would even say everyone on this thread will not make the final table. But if you did? You would absolutely see all the pros of the situation. When I first heard about the change, I too thought it was horrible. I still think it isn't a great idea. I think if they want to delay the FT for the production value, then they should run the entire FT live. Start it as 6 AM MST, let it play through the entire day on ESPN2. I think stopping when it reaches HU is a huge mistake. How many hands do they expect to get out of HU play ? Look back at most recent ME HU matches. They barely had 2 hands with Williams / Raymer. Could you imagine waiting a day for that ? I think overall it will have a positive impact on getting some FISH into game and it will give ESPN higher ratings. I think everyone that worrys about colusion and extortion has take a few too many bad beats. Yeah there might be a few threats here and there, but there always will be with that kind of money at stake.

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I think of poker like a sport. IMO this is like giving atheletes 3 months off before game 7 of a 3-3 tied game series to train. They have time to rest their bodies and workout. They have time to study game film of the previous 6 games to see where they can improve. I really agree with Mark on this. There is no reason why this wouldnt be done if it wasnt to be profited from it. Oh and are the winners from this format going to have an * in the record books saying the FT was played diff from the others? If you say no, why wouldnt it? The previous winners had to deal with fatigue and pressure that never let up. The players would have an unfair advantage to prepare for play. Isnt steriods and unfair advantage for play also?Sorry, this really just steams me and Im really really suprised Daniel is in favor because I have seen Daniel relate poker to other sports before. But it seems he isnt relating this instance to sports at all.

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And the negative part of not doing that is what exactly?
What I was saying is I find this to be a negative aspect b/c it prevents me from watching the FT on PPV, as I have done in the 2 previous years. Now, because there is no PPV telecast, I cannot watch it.
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The most relavant sports analogy I can think of is playing the first 3 rounds of the Masters in April then having the Top 10 come back to play the final round in July. It lets them regroup and refocus. Bad idea that is hopefully not going to gain any traction.

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As a poker player I'm not sure what I think about the whole thing but from a marketing standpoint I like the idea a lot. The people who complain likely aren't going to stop playing poker or contributing to the industry. This is a way to attract more attention from new players/sponsors etc. The comparisons to hockey and soccer etc are a bit of a stretch imo but from a marketing stand point this is similar to concepts that the wwe, ufc and boxing all regularly use or have in the past. The ratings alone for things like wwe and ufc prove how much more of an increase in audience you get when people feel as though they know and are invested in the participants (see TUF). As poker players most of us will watch for the game but with the right marketing plan "outsiders" will be drawn in by the various players and personalities who will be featured at the final table.

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Am I the only one that is paying attention to the fact that the publics interest in poker seems to be on the downswing a little bit? This is an attempt to get people excited about the WSOP.
Poker is definitely in a downswing. Largely because of online poker being hurt so much but also because poker drew the attention of a lot of people who have limited attention spans. Some got into it as a spectator thing and have moved on. Others tried playing for a bit and realized it was harder than they expected and moved on. I'm all for raising the profile of poker and getting more people interested in the game. Maybe this will do it. I think that's highly unlikely. I still say the best thing that could happen to poker would be Jen Harmon winning the ME. Or Cindy Violette. An attractive, female pro would do wonders for publicizing the game among those who don't follow it right now.
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I've had some time to think about this since I made a post in the old thread about how it would never happen, and I've become of the opinion that this is a good thing. I won't go into my arguments about how some of the concerns mentioned are either offset by something else, or generally invalid, but there are a few other plusses that no one else has covered. One is that for the most part, the bottom end of the final table (7th 8th 9th) is not remembered by anyone later (other than Matusow, I'm betting the average poster couldn't name more than 1 or 2 others over the past 5 years offhand)-that will change this year. With 4 months to promote all 9 players, the average sponsorship earn from the final table players will increase significantly. Additionally, the ability to get to know the players will increase greatly-imagine the interviews Kimberly does with the WPT final tablists, times 1000.Secondly, the chance of something unethical happening (collusion, softplay, etc) is pretty low-the stage is too big for it to happen. Unless you believe in the teachings of Cartman.Finally, I'm guessing there will be a pay-per-view. It's doubtful that ESPN will just kill that revenue stream.

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