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Wsop 2008 Final Table In November


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At first I was like err....What the hell? Thought it might be a poor idea that shouldn't be applied to this type of event. But after thinking about it I think I'm going to really enjoy the hype that will be built up. It could be a very good thing IMO.

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I think for the players it's of course going to be awful, but for the audience (and that's where ESPN is aiming obv.) it should be great. Imagine a table full of players who actually know what they're doing! No more guys who pray to god for the mighty 6 outer. Should be a lot more entertaining, esp since it will be a little bit more like PAD, where they show more hands instead of the all-in action only (unless they cut it down to 1h all-in fest in the 12h delay, which hopefully won't be possible for them).

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That's freaking horrible for a number of reasons.After the grueling, tough road to make the final table, fatigue won't be much of a factor. Everyone will be fresh. European players and amateurs now have to make a separate trip back to Vegas to play the final table (though with that payday they probably won't mind too much).The overall feel of the table will be different. If you make the final table of the ME, you've probably played quite a few hands with the other 8 players over the previous few days. You get a good read on how they've played certain hands, pick up on mannerisms, etc. They're still fresh in your mind. Now you sit down for the final table, and you haven't seen these people in 4 months? Seems to be a big disadvantage for players who can get really zoned in. Poker players go through hot and cold streaks just like anyone else. You may be playing great poker in July and then have your game slip a little by November.It just seems to have the final table that disconnected from the rest of the tourney is stupid.And I think it's ridiculous that the final 9 will get to watch coverage leading up to the final table before finishing the tourney. The day 1 and 2 play probably won't matter much, but there could be some key hands from when they're down to 45 players or so. I guess it's gonna add a new wrinkle to the mind games: Playing a hand a certain way knowing that your opponent already saw you play it before.

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No PPV/ No online feed is what I don't like about this the most. I think that's the best thing about poker is watching the actual final table. The EPT shows all their events live and it's the best thing for poker because you get to see all the hands. And yes following it online is fun too but it's not the same as actually seeing the hands. It's not even close. Watching 2 hours just isn't enough. It's probably roughly 20 hands out of hundreds of hands. I think if they kept the PPV or put it online it would still get great ratings for the final table the next day.

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DN just wrote a blog on it.He was obviously involved in it. And is "neutrally" defending it.The side deals are a big problem. A 9mil or 10mil first prize? We have seen much crazier things happen over far less sums of money than this. No way will it be a legit tournament. Will be stinking of scams.Will be entertaining though, with the amount of things that could go wrong.And if I was a known pro and finally Final tabled one of these, I would be so pissed. Every other player there would have studied every single part of you.You would be the complete focus of their studies.In short, I can't wait. I hope its just a one time thing though.

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They should do this with the HORSE not the ME.
My thoughts exactly when I read this. Would the pros allow the 50k HORSE FT to be delayed 4 months without throwing a fit? That's the true "championship of poker" now anyway, so why not have us sweat that final table rather than the main event FT? The 50k HORSE field is 99.999% pros, they don't have day jobs so they don't have day job schedules to conflict with, the field would remain even due to everyone being essentially on the same professional level, and it's the most prestigious title at the WSOP. It makes 10 times more sense to do it to that one rather than the ME. ESPN would be smart to suggest this with the HORSE so that it would become the holy grail of poker tournaments, rather than the ME, to the average viewer...to me that's win-win for everyone. And secondly, the WSOP shouldn't be dictated by ESPN's ratings. Sorry, but they shouldn't be calling the shots on this.
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From Blog: I think the poker world should support the efforts here to try and improve the WSOP main event and understand that if it flops, it's not the end of the world. We can always change it back next year. I say, give it a chance. It's a gamble, but hey, aren't we all poker players?Unfortunately, there are those of us that believe the indicator on whether it flops or not will be only Harrah's bottom line, and nothing else.Mark

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From the story at ESPN.comhttp://sports.espn.go.com/espn/poker/news/story?id=3375032"With this change, the players will return to Harrah's, which will host the event, on Nov. 9 to begin the final table. The "heads-up" final will start "late in the evening" on Nov. 10, with a champion crowned Nov. 11."What the heck this mean. They are going to stop play when it gets to heads up and return the next day to play heads up? Also, are they going to Harrah's or Rio? or somewhere else. Not that I really care, just curious why they would also change the venue.

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From Daniel's blog:

The final table will end very late on the 10th, so late that the outcome will miss the morning papers and media Tuesday morning. Wednesday morning, after the show airs on ESPN, it would hit the papers. Obviously if you go online you'll be able to find out who wins, but if you prefer to watch it "live" you can choose to wait less than 24 hours and watch it Tuesday night.
So will ESPN broadcast the results on shows like Sportscenter, as they have in the past, before the 'almost live' showing? Or would they hold off in order to try to gain a bigger TV audience?Obviously the results are instantaneous online, but since they seem hell-bent on keeping the results as hidden as possible, this seems like it could be a journalistic dilemma for them.
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Poker NewsAfter the excitement, from the pros, concerning this years change in the WSOP Main Event Final Table more changes have been planned for next year. Next years final table will be filmed live with commentary by the kids of out of work 80's actors. During every blind level the players will vote a player off while the chip leader will have immunity. This process will be repeated until a winner is decided. The players will play the final table out 17 times and whomever wins the most final tables will eventually be named champion in the year 2027. In addition, all players will periodically be asked to go into a soundproof booth to discuss their current emotional situation. When a player busts, they will undergo the scrutiny of a panel of judges, all poker greats. We have a great authority that these judges will include Chris Moneymaker and the ghost of Stu Ungar. When asked what they would do if Moneymaker made the final table our source laughed uncontrollably for 34 minutes. The Pros gave mixed reviews when approached for comment. Doyle Brunson made a joke about his age, Phil Hellmuth said "I'm the best" and Daniel Negreanu said "Anything that can get me another endorsement is fine by me".

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From Daniel's blog:So will ESPN broadcast the results on shows like Sportscenter, as they have in the past, before the 'almost live' showing? Or would they hold off in order to try to gain a bigger TV audience?Obviously the results are instantaneous online, but since they seem hell-bent on keeping the results as hidden as possible, this seems like it could be a journalistic dilemma for them.
I'd guess that they won't report anything about the Day 1 final table just because its not big enough news, and then the day 2 HU final table match might not be over before the last sportscenter of the night goes on. But I think if it goes by quick which is probably very possible, they would report the winner.I know they do with sporting events from Europe etc that are being tape delay broadcast in the US, although most of them are broadcast on other channels so I dunno since its their own network. But they'll probably find a way to report on it and hype up the broadcast for the next day I would think?Mark
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I'd guess that they won't report anything about the Day 1 final table just because its not big enough news, and then the day 2 HU final table match might not be over before the last sportscenter of the night goes on. But I think if it goes by quick which is probably very possible, they would report the winner.I know they do with sporting events from Europe etc that are being tape delay broadcast in the US, although most of them are broadcast on other channels so I dunno since its their own network. But they'll probably find a way to report on it and hype up the broadcast for the next day I would think?Mark
I agree they probably won't report on the earlier happenings (other than to hype the airing), but I'm pretty sure there will be like 6-8 episodes of SportsCenter that will run after it completes, if I am interpreting this correctly:
The "heads-up" final will start "late in the evening" on Nov. 10, with a champion crowned Nov. 11.Television coverage of the finals will be shown on ESPN starting at 9 p.m. ET on Nov. 11.
So, HU play starts say at 11PM PST on the 10th, finishes around 2 or 3AM, then the episode is aired that same night at 9PM EST, leaving 12-15 hours in between.I guess my whole point for bringing all this up is that ESPN made a big deal during the NFL Draft about being able to report on who was going to get selected before the pick was actually announced (and I heard a big long interview the day afterward about them keeping their journalistic integrity on reporting the facts as they came in, even at the expense of ruining the suspense from hearing the Commissioner walk up and announce the pick himself), so I think they have to broadcast who wins prior to the airing, which seems to go against the whole point of what they are trying to do.
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I don't get why they don't show the HU match live. What they should do IMO (if they're going to stick with the delayed format, which is terrible in and of itself, but we'll put that aside for a moment) is air the HU match live. Come back on the 9th, play the FT down to the HU match. Come back on the 10th, show the FT Episode from 8-9, start the live HU match at 9 EST, 6 Vegas time, and play out the match. It'd be like broadcasting an NHL Playoff game. In all likelyhood it will end in < 2 hours, but it has the potential to go very long, so you put SportsCenter on ESPN2, and oh no, there's no NFL Live or Nascar Now for one night. Having something be live is the most important aspect of this working, or else I see it as being kinda pointless.

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"I think the poker world should support the efforts here to try and improve the WSOP main event and understand that if it flops, it's not the end of the world. We can always change it back next year. I say, give it a chance. It's a gamble, but hey, aren't we all poker players?"Just like the 20k chips and differant blind structures that people didnt like. Is it the same this year?Ever hear if its not broke dont fix it? Why do people who think they are important always want to screw up something cool?Hole card cams are nothing like waiting 3 months to play the final table, how can you even try to compare the two.Maybe the goal here is to make the WPT events more popular by destroying the WSOP ?

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I agree they probably won't report on the earlier happenings (other than to hype the airing), but I'm pretty sure there will be like 6-8 episodes of SportsCenter that will run after it completes, if I am interpreting this correctly:So, HU play starts say at 11PM PST on the 10th, finishes around 2 or 3AM, then the episode is aired that same night at 9PM EST, leaving 12-15 hours in between.
I could be wrong, but isn't the Sportscenter you see at 9 in the morning just a tape of the last one from the night before, which I think is like 1am our time or something? I dunno, thats what I meant though, if it finishes after that one, then the next live sportscenter isn't until mid next day I think.But I could be way off here as I don't watch it as much as I used to :)Mark
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I could be wrong, but isn't the Sportscenter you see at 9 in the morning just a tape of the last one from the night before, which I think is like 1am our time or something? I dunno, thats what I meant though, if it finishes after that one, then the next live sportscenter isn't until mid next day I think.But I could be way off here as I don't watch it as much as I used to :)Mark
Yes it is... 4 of them straight, lol.But on ESPN 2 they do First Take.
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Add me to the list of people who think this is a retarded idea.....Oh well, milk it milk it milk it right? thats what network execs are paid to do.I hope it backfires so that they leave it alone next yearanyway, this was a funny write up about the FT and how it can possible get F'd up by various unpredictables Top 5 likely Outcomes of Postponing the Main Event FT

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Add me to the list of people who think this is a retarded idea.....Oh well, milk it milk it milk it right? thats what network execs are paid to do.I hope it backfires so that they leave it alone next yearanyway, this was a funny write up about the FT and how it can possible get F'd up by various unpredictables Top 5 likely Outcomes of Postponing the Main Event FT
So this is basically just taking all the ideas from this thread and the 2p2 thread and this guy passing them off as original.
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OK. I'm taggin in on this one....I don't like it...I'm paranoid by nature so I think this format will only encourage team play/collusion/deal making etc...it also sickens me that these more than likey unknowns will run to these "pros" for "coaching"...the charm of the ME final table is the unknow players and their unknown stories...

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it also sickens me that these more than likey unknowns will run to these "pros" for "coaching"...the charm of the ME final table is the unknow players and their unknown stories...
QFMFT.As someone who has been in enough edit rooms to know, I see NO reason why ESPN needs three friggin months. THREE MONTHS??? C'mon, I could give them two weeks between the ME and the ME Final Table for a proper hype buildup, ala the Super Bowl, but seriously, no one will even care 3 months later! It'll be like one continuous episode of Poker After Dark, just with well-coached unknowns.Look, if CBS can cull together hundreds of hours of March Madness games for their "One Shining Moment" just to make me cry like a little girl 30 seconds after the final buzzer, I think freakin' ESPN can get their sh*t together to pick out a few moments of sheer terror from hours of inane boredom for a nice, week-long lead-up of ME coverage just prior to the Final Table. They can edit the other events for later--it's not like those matter to the ME anyway.
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I think when it gets down to 10 players and they get an all-in with a call they should stop right there. That way they can have a 3 month long Degree All-In Moment.

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heres another thing I just thought of. People who make the final table in the ME have been in vegas for several weeks at least and are well adjusted to the timezone. Most likely a couple people who final table will be from halfway around the world, and they will have to come back to vegas after several months away to play for 1 day and could be at a huge disadvantage compared to american players because of jetlag

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I know myself, if I made the final table, I would be stressed as hell and probably not get a lot of sleep that night. Stretch that out over 3 months and I would be a basket case. I also think a lot of these degens would have bet away or spent most of the money long before they get there in November to play.

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