Mvp: Kobe Or Cp3?

[keith crime 8]

I think Kobe should win - it's his turn (not a great argument but he lost so many times because of his team's record you have to give it to him when he wins an ultracompetitive West even though it was only by one game)I have no idea who will win but I don't really think Garnett or Lebron have much of a shot

[Jadaki 0]

Its a 3 horse race.Kobe is going to win.CP3 is deserving, but likely won't win because Kobe got his team to the 1 seed even though the Hornets are a lottery team without CP3.KG will get a few votes, deservedly so for the leadership, defense, and great play he brought to Boston to make them gel the way they did.Lebron has no shot because he plays in the weaker conference and the Cavs aren't even at the top of that.

[keith crime 8]

i agree Lebron has no shot but he was in the discussion until they faded at the end

[Jadaki 0]

i agree Lebron has no shot but he was in the discussion until they faded at the end

I never thought he was because as has been discussed, the award has shifted from the most outstanding player to the player who took his team farther in the regular season.Lebron had a shot if it was just most outstanding player just because of his averages, but when you factor in the west > east and what the Lakers and Hornets did in comparison in a much tougher division then I never thought he had a shot, KG gets nods for turning around a team more than any other in history and being the anchor of the best defense in the league.

[keith crime 8]

I never thought he was because as has been discussed, the award has shifted from the most outstanding player to the player who took his team farther in the regular season.Lebron had a shot if it was just most outstanding player just because of his averages, but when you factor in the west > east and what the Lakers and Hornets did in comparison in a much tougher division then I never thought he had a shot, KG gets nods for turning around a team more than any other in history and being the anchor of the best defense in the league.

that's easy to say now but midseason - it was pre-Gasol for Kobe - if they don't make that trade he doesn't winChris Paul and his team were being discountedDuncan and Nowitzki and Nash were all having so so yearsGarnett was there but much as I love him - after watching them play the Hawks how can you ever give it to this guy - MVPs have to demand the ball at the end of a close game or at least be an amazing playmakerIt's always been the number one criticism against him and he's never changed his game one iotaDown the stretch the other night I barely knew he was in the game the last half of the fourthAmazing year though - Lebron went 30 - 7 - 7 something only done by two other players ever and will be fourth

[Jadaki 0]

Amazing year though - Lebron went 30 - 7 - 7 something only done by two other players ever and will be fourth

That would be more impressive if Oscar Robertson hadn't averaged a triple double for a season on more than one occasion before.And the MVP is a regular season award, you can't penalize KG for anything in the playoffs. How often did he need to demand the ball in the 4th quarter, they were usually cruising to easy victories with the best record in the league. That includes crushing the western conference at a 5-1 win ratio.I'm glad Atlanta and Philly are showing up for the playoffs, young hungry teams with athletic players make the first round exciting which is more than I can say for what is going on out west.

[keith crime 8]

That would be more impressive if Oscar Robertson hadn't averaged a triple double for a season on more than one occasion before.And the MVP is a regular season award, you can't penalize KG for anything in the playoffs. How often did he need to demand the ball in the 4th quarter, they were usually cruising to easy victories with the best record in the league. That includes crushing the western conference at a 5-1 win ratio.I'm glad Atlanta and Philly are showing up for the playoffs, young hungry teams with athletic players make the first round exciting which is more than I can say for what is going on out west.

I know it's a regular season award but because of this its often been an embarrassmentesp when Shaq destroyed David Robinson in the playoffsand Dirk last yearOscar was a god and he did it five time but you keep ignoring that the number of shots back in the late sixties was at least 50% higher - aka a lot more rebounds and a lot more assists

[Jadaki 0]

I know it's a regular season award but because of this its often been an embarrassmentesp when Shaq destroyed David Robinson in the playoffsand Dirk last yearOscar was a god and he did it five time but you keep ignoring that the number of shots back in the late sixties was at least 50% higher - aka a lot more rebounds and a lot more assists

Really, they took more shots when there was no shot clock? That's news to me.And for the playoffs, that's why they have Finals MVP.

[keith crime 8]

Really, they took more shots when there was no shot clock? That's news to me.And for the playoffs, that's why they have Finals MVP.

ok i love you dude and i'm probably going to owe you twenty bucks on the celtics cavs but Oscar Robertson played his entire career with the shot clockVery low-scoring games with many fouls were common, boring fans. The most extreme case occurred on November 22, 1950, when the Fort Wayne Pistons defeated the Minneapolis Lakers by a record-low score of 19-18. A few weeks later, the Rochester Royals and Indianapolis Olympians played a five-overtime game with only one shot in each overtime. To speed up the game and reduce fouls, the NBA tried several rule changes in the early 1950s before eventually adopting Biasone's idea.The shot clock, together with some rule changes concerning fouls, immediately revolutionized NBA basketball. In the last pre-clock season, teams averaged 79 points per game. In the first year with the clock (1954-55), the average was up to 93 points; by the fourth year (1957-58), it was 107 pointsLook at the rebounding leaders in Oscars era1964 Bill Russell, Bos 78 1930 24.7 1965 Bill Russell, Bos 78 1878 24.1 1966 Wilt Chamberlain, Phi 79 1943 24.6 1967 Wilt Chamberlain, Phi 81 1957 24.2 1968 Wilt Chamberlain, Phi 82 1952 23.8 1969 Wilt Chamberlain, LA 81 1712 21.1 1970 Elvin Hayes, SD 82 1386 16.9 1971 Wilt Chamberlain, LA 82 1493 18.2 1972 Wilt Chamberlain, LA 82 1572 19.2 now I know you are going to say oh that's wilt and russell they were gods - but the Boston celtics used to put up just an unbelievable amount of shots back in the day look at this list of guysWilt Chamberlain — led the NBA in rebounds in 11 different seasons, has the most career rebounds in the regular season (23,924), the highest career average (22.9 rpg), the single season rebounding records in total (2,149) and average (27.2 rpg), most rebounds in a regular season game (55) and playoff game (41) in the NBA, and has the most career All-Star Game rebounds (197). Bill Russell — first player to average over 20 rebounds per game in the regular season, ranks second to Chamberlain in regular season total (21,620) and average (22.5) rebounds, averaged more than 20 rebounds per game in 10 of 13 seasons played, grabbed 51 rebounds in a single game (second best ever), grabbed a record 32 rebounds in one half, and is the all-time playoff leader in total (4,104) and average (24.9 rpg) rebounds. Bob Pettit — averaged 20.3 rebounds per game in the 1960-61 season, his career average of 16.2 rebounds per game is third all-time, and holds the top two performances for rebounds in an NBA All-Star Game with 26 (in 1958) and 27 (in 1962). Nate Thurmond — averaged more than 20 rebounds per game in two seasons (including 22.0 rpg in the 1967-68 season), career average of 15.0 rpg, and holds the all-time NBA record for rebounds in a single quarter with 18. He is also the only player besides Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain to record more than 40 rebounds in a single game. Jerry Lucas — averaged more than 20 rebounds per game in two seasons (including 21.1 rpg in the 1965-66 season), and had a career average of 15.6 rpg. are all the best rebounders of all time from the 60's or has the game changedBill Russell 32 rebounds in one half! That's amazing but C'mon he couldn't possible have gotten every single Boston reboundLast night the entire spurs team only had 50 for the whole game and they were playing a running team that puts up a lot of shotsthere were tons more shots in the 60's

[keith crime 8]

here it is more simplyThis year the cavs led the league in rebounding with 44.6 per gamein 1961-2 the year oscar averaged a trible double and averaged about 12 a game - his cincinnati team averaged 69 rebounds a night! That's 54% more possible rebounds for Oscar to getlebron's had 17% of the cavs reboundsoscar had voila - 17 % of his teams rebounds that's a wash any way you look at it

[Jadaki 0]

Lots of stuff

You need stats on shots per game then, not rebounds. 7 footers are a lot more common now than they were in the days of Wilt and Russel, that's why they could get such a high % of rebounds. I'd bet the average NBA player is 2-3 inches taller now than they were in the 60's.

[keith crime 8]

You need stats on shots per game then, not rebounds. 7 footers are a lot more common now than they were in the days of Wilt and Russel, that's why they could get such a high % of rebounds. I'd bet the average NBA player is 2-3 inches taller now than they were in the 60's.

check my second post it proves my point without a doubtand at least give me an apology for saying Oscar played minus a shot clock

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Kobe will win.. the anti-Kobe vote will be split between KG, Paul and Lebron. Chris Paul should win, but I have no fears, he's going to win at least 3 of those if he stays healthy.

[Jadaki 0]

check my second post it proves my point without a doubtand at least give me an apology for saying Oscar played minus a shot clock

Your second posts just says they average more rebounds per game than the current cavs, which can just be a contrast of styles between the two teams. Proves nothing about number of shots taken per game. You are the one always complaining about how slow the Cavs play which artificial limits Lebrons rebound opportunities right?Yea, you were right. I was thinking it was implemented during his pro career.

[Jadaki 0]

Kobe will win.. the anti-Kobe vote will be split between KG, Paul and Lebron. Chris Paul should win, but I have no fears, he's going to win at least 3 of those if he stays healthy.

Kobe fans said the same things years ago.

[keith crime 8]

Your second posts just says they average more rebounds per game than the current cavs, which can just be a contrast of styles between the two teams. Proves nothing about number of shots taken per game. You are the one always complaining about how slow the Cavs play which artificial limits Lebrons rebound opportunities right?Yea, you were right. I was thinking it was implemented during his pro career.

you're just being beligerantevery NBA team this year averaged around 40 rebounds a gamein 1961 every nba team averaged about about 67 a gamefeel free to explain to me how you can have 50% more rebounds across the league without there being 50% more missed shots - if you can do it I will forfeit our 20 dollar bet before the series

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Kobe fans said the same things years ago.

Chris Paul doesn't have the baggage ( yet, at least) that Kobe does, and there's a point-guard bias with alot of voters. And there's no really good white player to steal Paul's MVP like Dirk and Nash stole Kobe's. I think Paul, Lebron and Howard are going to swap MVP's for the next 8 years.

[keith crime 8]

Kobe will win.. the anti-Kobe vote will be split between KG, Paul and Lebron. Chris Paul should win, but I have no fears, he's going to win at least 3 of those if he stays healthy and doesn't rape anyone.

fyp

[Jadaki 0]

you're just being beligerantevery NBA team this year averaged around 40 rebounds a gamein 1961 every nba team averaged about about 67 a gamefeel free to explain to me how you can have 50% more rebounds across the league without there being 50% more missed shots - if you can do it I will forfeit our 20 dollar bet before the series

I just don't want to go digging through statsYou have to appreciate my laziness.

[keith crime 8]

I just don't want to go digging through statsYou have to appreciate my laziness.

i don't just appreciate it I laud ittake my word for it - I've read about the game and those Celtics teams that won all those championships with Cousy used to throw up more shots than the Gathers Kimble Loyola Marymount teams

[Jadaki 0]

i don't just appreciate it I laud ittake my word for it - I've read about the game and those Celtics teams that won all those championships with Cousy used to throw up more shots than the Gathers Kimble Loyola Marymount teams

That I find hard to believe. I'll go do some research later, right now I'm feeling like Arby's.

[keith crime 8]

1959-60 CelticsFG % 41.7%FG Attempts 120 per gameRebounds per game 80.2Pts per game 124 (no three point line!)this years celticsFG % 48 %FGA 77 per gameRebounds per game 42pte per game 101enjoy your roast beef

[Jadaki 0]

1959-60 CelticsFG % 41.7%FG Attempts 120 per gameRebounds per game 80.2Pts per game 124 (no three point line!)this years celticsFG % 48 %FGA 77 per gameRebounds per game 42pte per game 101enjoy your roast beef

41% shooting, that's as much of a culprit as anything. It's hilarious that they shot so poorly.And I'm having a chicken bacon & swiss, not a huge fan of the roast beef.

[keith crime 8]

41% shooting, that's as much of a culprit as anything. It's hilarious that they shot so poorly.And I'm having a chicken bacon & swiss, not a huge fan of the roast beef.

ever seen the saturday night live michael jordan hosted with the skit The first Black Harlem Globetrotter (A 1991 episode of Saturday Night Live spoofed desegregation of sports with "The First Black Harlem Globetrotter". Michael Jordan plays a fictional player called "Sweet River Banes", who is supposedly the first black member of the Globetrotters in the 1920s.)he scores like 80 points in his first game and all the little white guys berate him for not being a team playerthey eventually made a nike commercial with scottie pippen out of the same conceptthis dude was the most dominating player of the 50's !!

[keith crime 8]

scottie commercial