hey daniel, was johnny chan angle shooting here?

[Random Fluke 0]

He played within the rules of poker to win a big pot.  I'm not defending his actions, but he did take down that hand.

Definition of angle shooter:angle shooter(n phrase) A poker player who uses various underhanded, unfair methods to take advantage of inexperienced opponents. The difference between an angle shooter and a cheat is only a matter of degree. What a cheat or thief does is patently against the rules; what an angle shooter does may be marginally legal, but it's neither ethical nor gentlemanly. Nor is it in the spirit of the game.

[ckbandit 0]

I understand the definition of angle shooting and have doubt that's what occurred. However "unethical" it may be, it is within the rules of poker. I don't think (I may be wrong) that there is a set of "marginal" rules tournament officials enforce. This area is black and white. If it wasn't, I'm sure some disciplinary action would've been taken against him.

[Herr Mensch 0]

Sure you can, just like any other unethical piece of trash. If you think being a champion gives you the right to be a douche, I feel sorry for you. Everyone that thinks this is ok obviously doesn't care about whether poker is regarded an honourable game or a shady game people can turn up their nose at.

THAT is the biggest chuckle of the day.Poker is not a test of hono(u)r. It is a game of deception, manipulation, and guile. Always has been, always will be. :roll: honor....Mensch

[Heyou!!! 0]

???????cardplayer's coverage ??????????Where can i find that coverage??????(Cant find it on their site) :roll: :roll: :roll:

[SapphireTiger 0]

When you area a two time world champion, you can do whatever the hell you want to do.

Sure you can, just like any other unethical piece of trash. If you think being a champion gives you the right to be a douche, I feel sorry for you. Everyone that thinks this is ok obviously doesn't care about whether poker is regarded an honourable game or a shady game people can turn up their nose at.

you asked Daniel for an opinion when you're already set in what you think.If you're so interested in the honor of the game why don't you give Chan the benefit of the doubt. Cardplayer isn't exactly the best source in giving accurate information, and there hasn't been very much discussion on it by players. It just bugs the crap out of me that you're calling him a piece of trash and a douchebag.

[SiliconSlim 0]

Sure you can, just like any other unethical piece of trash. If you think being a champion gives you the right to be a douche, I feel sorry for you. Everyone that thinks this is ok obviously doesn't care about whether poker is regarded an honourable game or a shady game people can turn up their nose at.

THAT is the biggest chuckle of the day.Poker is not a test of hono(u)r. It is a game of deception, manipulation, and guile. Always has been, always will be. :roll: honor....Mensch

Have to completely agree. Spirit of the game? Just because poker has become popular and mainstream, don't be fooled. It's a world filled with degenerate gamblers, cheats, and people who generally do nothing productive with their lives. Do you really think it's filled with honorable gentlemen? C'mon, most of them have done time, or done things they should have done time for. They cheat, they shoot angles, they take pieces of each other and collude in tournaments...they're compulsive gamblers. You only have to read DN's blog to realize it. They may do exciting things, travel all over, and win lots of money...but it's not helping anyone. For every winner there are a hundred losers, and even the winners are down and out more often than they'll let you know.Seriously...honor? spirit of the game? Win at all costs is the spirit of the game. Make sure your opponent is as disadvantaged as possible, that's the ethic.I'm making money playing poker, but it's not nearly as satisfying as I suspected it would be, and it's taken away from the productive things I do with my life, which is a waste of life in my opinion.

[LAPoker 0]

I don't get why you think that this is Unethical. Maybe you shouldn't be playing poker, because you don't understand as Josh Arieh put it "This is war". He played within the rules of the game, and Bax paid the price for it. If this occured at the beginning of the tournement then they are both tools. Don't believe anything your opponent says. Always ask yourself why would he say or do that. How does that affect the range of hands he could be holding. I have tossed Aces in this type of situation, not often but if you don't know how or when to lay down AA KK, then you are never going to make it to the end of a five day tournement. By the way a few months ago there was a discusion about someone moving all in on the first hand and you have KK. I thought people were crazy for saying they would lay it down, but I have seen recently that almost everytime this has occured in a large buy in tournement with long blind structures one guy has AA and the other KK. Think about it what hands is someone going to move in on at the begginning of a big tourney where you have 10,000 in chips, and the blinds are 10 - 25, providing they have some level of sanity, and remembering they just invested $10,000: QQ nope, KK maybe, AA definitely, AK No way in hell, any other PP nope. Now I say easy preflop fold, unless you see that they keep moving in every ten minutes.

[adidas freak 0]

Everyone that thinks this is ok obviously doesn't care about whether poker is regarded an honourable game or a shady game people can turn up their nose at.

Couldn't deception (a key component in poker) be construed as "shady"?He played within the rules of poker to win a big pot. I'm not defending his actions' date=' but he did take down that hand.[/quote']I didnt write that buddy...how do u mess up a quote button???Misquoting someone is also unethical!!!

[ckbandit 0]

I fixed it so you could sleep better tonight.

[Random Fluke 0]

When you area a two time world champion, you can do whatever the hell you want to do.

Sure you can, just like any other unethical piece of trash. If you think being a champion gives you the right to be a douche, I feel sorry for you. Everyone that thinks this is ok obviously doesn't care about whether poker is regarded an honourable game or a shady game people can turn up their nose at.

you asked Daniel for an opinion when you're already set in what you think.If you're so interested in the honor of the game why don't you give Chan the benefit of the doubt. Cardplayer isn't exactly the best source in giving accurate information, and there hasn't been very much discussion on it by players. It just bugs the crap out of me that you're calling him a piece of trash and a douchebag.

You're right, and I apologize I do come off that way in that quote. My responce was meant for the quote in my message there... the idea that 'it is ok for chan to angle shoot because he is a world champion' I should have just said 'no, being a world champion doesn't give you the right to do this.'I'm not saying he's guilty, that's why I was asking for DN's opinion on it. Although from what I read on cardplayer it seems more likely than not that he is guilty. If DN responded to this thread and told me that it was probably an honest mistake, I'd take his word for it.I'm a little surprised so many people think that even if Chan did do this, it is no big deal though. I think I'll just let this thread die as nothing much is coming from it but flames, and with each responce my opinion of internet players drops a little more.

[PMJackson21 0]

If this occured at the beginning of the tournement then they are both tools.

If JB was the first player out, then it obviously was early in the tourney. It's actually a very interesting hand the way it played out, regardless of the questionable play by Chan. It seems like an awful overplay by JB, but Johnny Bax is a very good NLHE tournament player. I can't comment on his live game, but he's been the hottest online tourney player as of late (he has my number baaaaaaad too, always seems to get me regardless if I have the best of it going in or not). JB obviously fell hook, line, and sinker for Chan's angle shoot (or not, debatable), because I don't think he would commit his chips that early with only an overpair.Patrick