Worst Fold In Poker History?

[SilentButDeadly3 0]

I suppose the Moneymaker bluff HU in the Main Event is still the best bluff of the century?

If Sammy calls, is there a poker boom?

[Vick12 0]

now? You wanted to before?

QFT, why would you want to throw money away?

Tbh, I don't wanna play ANYONE who's any good for cash. I'd rather play fishies all day every day in cash games.In mtt's? I would KILL to play Chan or Ivey, Doyle, or even Hellmuth. I see mtt's more as competition...and I am personally unafraid of anyone in a mtt. The INSTANT I enter a mtt is the INSTANT I forget about how much money the entry was or how much the lowest level cash is. I also want to be THE BEST MTT PLAYER I CAN HUMANLY BE. This may never end up being the best in the world, but I feel playing the best competition possible only can make me better as a player. As someone who has played almost every buy in level online, I can tell you unequivacally that the higher buy in mtt's are infinately tougher than smaller buy in mtt's. I can literally FEEL a difference when I am playing a $24 mtt or a $100 1+1 rebuy. So to answer honestly...Cash games I would never want to sit with anyone good. In mtt's I look FORWARD to playing strong players because I feel they make me stronger in the long run.

I suppose the Moneymaker bluff HU in the Main Event is still the best bluff of the century?

If Sammy calls, is there a poker boom?

That's the Multi-Billion Dollar question isn't it?

[NoSup4U 0]

If Sammy calls, is there a poker boom?

Thank God for Moneymaker Farha.Mark

[chgocubs99 0]

Pretty sure there'd be a poker boom anyway, hole card cams were much more influential than Moneymaker winning.But this is another discussion for another time.

[Jordan 1]

I agree it turned out to be a bad fold, although if the Morgan had tabled 85 this would be a thread about the best fold ever.Hachem read Morgan for being super strong, which he was, and Morgan obv wasn't bluffing as he thought he had the best hand by far.As someone pointed out earlier, this fold was very similar to Doyle folding the best flush to Jamie Gold, and many have praised Doyle for his read in that.In both cases Hachem and Doyles read was spot on. (Hachem's of course was a worse fold than Doyles as Hachem had the 2nd Nuts and Doyle only had the 3rd or 4th nuts, and in Hachems case the chances of his opponent having the nuts is reduced by the face that Hachem was holding 5 in his hand)

nope, it would still be pretty horrible fold.do you see why?- Jordan

[Jordan 1]

So to answer honestly...Cash games I would never want to sit with anyone good. In mtt's I look FORWARD to playing strong players because I feel they make me stronger in the long run. That's the Multi-Billion Dollar question isn't it?

yes, they 'make' you stronger, but that's not really something you have to experience by playing the best of the best...granted it helps and you should challenge yourself in any venue...but you should also be looking for softer competition (in general) so you have a better chance of actually winning a tournament, or being a long term cash game winner.i prefer to play weaker players HU, I'll play "good" players from time to time, but it's usually kinda pointless cause the reason of grinding out hands is to pick good spots and exploit your small to medium edges. Against other good players, your edge becomes so small the variance of a small sample of hands will determine (more often than not) who the winner is going to be...but with no inclination of who the better player is. Also, it should be noted a good player is much diff from a 'regular'. ive played plenty of regulars who play really poorly yet are on everyday. but then again, my sample of playing them is probably to small to really judge their play/tendencies.see, in a tournament (and i dont play many of them) i'd think that since most are 9 handed, that you are going to be getting most of your chips from the idiots, and rarely will you have a really tough table and have to deal w/ other 'really good' tournament players cause often fields are full of so many horrible players -- soo I guess I just don't see the point of looking forward to playing against 'strong players' in a tournament, simply cause you have so many more soft spots to pick...grantedi t's good to be able to play against good players, and you certainly can...but i just don't really see teh logic behind looking forward to playing strong players, cuz they make you stronger in the long run...i think if you play a solid/good, etc game...you'll continually improve...and yes part of that is going up against good players, that just happens...but it also comes from experience, studying, and talking over hands and situations w/ other good players...not necc. playing them...i dont know if i made sense or i'm just a freaking idiot.but to each his own.- Jordan

[gilbertology 0]

I think it must be the Bellagio poker room or casino. My first time in Vegas and second live session ever I was playing 2/5 at Bellagio and folded 55 on an AQ5 two heart board to a drunk donkey who went all-in with what he later said was A5. Have never played at Bellagio since. But I just folded the third nuts so it's not as bad as Hachem's fold. I hope I've gotten better since that hand.

[RuntCake 0]

When you win the WSOP ME and the WPT Championship ME, then you can tell Joe he sucks. Till then, enjoy the rail.

[Jordan 1]

no one said he sux...but it's hard to argue that this fold was just pretty horrible and a pretty massive mistake given the action, etc.and im done w/ this thread.- Jordan

[Vick12 0]

yes, they 'make' you stronger, but that's not really something you have to experience by playing the best of the best...granted it helps and you should challenge yourself in any venue...but you should also be looking for softer competition (in general) so you have a better chance of actually winning a tournament, or being a long term cash game winner.i prefer to play weaker players HU, I'll play "good" players from time to time, but it's usually kinda pointless cause the reason of grinding out hands is to pick good spots and exploit your small to medium edges. Against other good players, your edge becomes so small the variance of a small sample of hands will determine (more often than not) who the winner is going to be...but with no inclination of who the better player is. Also, it should be noted a good player is much diff from a 'regular'. ive played plenty of regulars who play really poorly yet are on everyday. but then again, my sample of playing them is probably to small to really judge their play/tendencies.see, in a tournament (and i dont play many of them) i'd think that since most are 9 handed, that you are going to be getting most of your chips from the idiots, and rarely will you have a really tough table and have to deal w/ other 'really good' tournament players cause often fields are full of so many horrible players -- soo I guess I just don't see the point of looking forward to playing against 'strong players' in a tournament, simply cause you have so many more soft spots to pick...grantedi t's good to be able to play against good players, and you certainly can...but i just don't really see teh logic behind looking forward to playing strong players, cuz they make you stronger in the long run...i think if you play a solid/good, etc game...you'll continually improve...and yes part of that is going up against good players, that just happens...but it also comes from experience, studying, and talking over hands and situations w/ other good players...not necc. playing them...i dont know if i made sense or i'm just a freaking idiot.but to each his own.- Jordan

Hardly.I guess what i am saying is...for me...my mtt game has gotten substancially better in the last year or so. In the past year I have probably spent the least amount of time talking/analyzing hands w/ friends and spent more time "in the fire" so to speak. To me this has EVERYTHING to do with having better competition and being put into crazy situations that I never find myself in w/ smaller buy ins.I spent a good number of years as a volleyball coach. I can tell you w/ 100000% certainty that in all my years of coaching I never had better teams than I did in 1995 and 2005. The common theme of both years was the following. We had not only our #1 team which was great, but our #2 teams that year were AWESOME. In both years, we sent many players on either our 2nd team or our 17's team to D1 schools and MANY of them had good/great college carreers. Our practices that year were almost always harder than any match we saw. No matter how good a practice schedule is, it can't replace actually PLAYING against great competition. So...I guess my point is...and I AM AN IDIOT...is that I have found playing better players has personally made me better. Like..as a nit...in smaller mtt's I would NEVER have to do anything but ABC my way through a field. I knew people were not paying enough attention to me to realize...umm he's a nit and he always has u!!! Now in many cases I have to my nitty image against tougher players in different ways. If I know I have a thinking opponent...I am a TON more likely to bluff at him since he has me pegged as a nit and it's easier to get free chips. Like...other day I was at a FT of the Turbo Fitty w/ Onlyme. Folds to my small blind, and I call w/ 2 suited clubs. Onlyme checked his option and we saw a 2 club flop. I check to Only and he makes a potsize feeler bet. I SNAPSHOVE my draw and after tanking for awhile Onlyme mucked. Now...in that case I used an image of being nitty/tight to semibluff my way to that pot. Now...if I am AT a FT would I prefer 8 donks or 8 studs...well 8 donks obv!!! However, I don't mind seeing a few tough players at all my tables along the way, because I know that I will likely bring my A+ game knowing that there are solid players at my table.Hope I made a little sense!

[SilentButDeadly3 0]

Jordan, you fool. You want to play against the best players in the world, so they respekt your raises.

[psujohn 0]

I think it must be the Bellagio poker room or casino. My first time in Vegas and second live session ever I was playing 2/5 at Bellagio and folded 55 on an AQ5 two heart board to a drunk donkey who went all-in with what he later said was A5. Have never played at Bellagio since. But I just folded the third nuts so it's not as bad as Hachem's fold. I hope I've gotten better since that hand.

That makes me not feel so bad about folding 99 on a 9TJxx board the first time I ever played live in a casino.

[SilentButDeadly3 0]

When you win the WSOP ME and the WPT Championship ME, then you can tell Joe he sucks. Till then, enjoy the rail.

It's one hand. Anyone who's not an idiot knows that Joe doesn't suck just because of one hand. I think it's just that, Joe had the 2nd nuts and the nuts is an extremely unlikely hand in this case (58). If you're going to call with 53, you should get it in here, otherwise what other board do you want? Therefore it was a pretty bad fold. Everybody makes bad folds, this is just on a grand scale, being at the WPT championship and he publicized his fold by showing it.I made a post in the DB/PA thread where someone says the reason Patrik Antonius will lose to DB is because of one hand where he lays down Queens to Chip's Kings. Not saying PA is > DB, because I don't know enough and don't want to speculate, but to say that someone else has an edge or sucks based on one hand is lollable.Here's the post I referenced:

Also here is the reason why DB will crush in NLHE Chip vs Doyle NLHE horse final table.

Yeah and this dude I know once beat Johnny Chan in a single hand. It was so sick. He sat waaaaaaaaay above his roll. Somehow was able to 5-bet Johnny with only like 20 bb's. But Johnny folded! Suddenly my friend got a ton of confidence after playing one hand well. So he went to the local underground poker club. Unfortunately, he was cleaned out by some Russian.

[koolromeo 0]

i don't know which is worse. folding the second nut straight, or showing the folded second nut straight.

[Mercury69 3]

This jacket is NOT BLACK!

[Jupiter 0]

When you win the WSOP ME and the WPT Championship ME, then you can tell Joe he sucks. Till then, enjoy the rail.

Hachem didn't win the WPT Championship.

[silkyjonson 1]

If you play enough tournaments you realize taht usually you have to target and extract chips fromt the weaker players usually more so earlier on, but most tournaments act somewhat as a filter and as you get deeper in large fields you should be playing for the most part against the stronger players and will get tougher tables. I think its a good idea to play against strong players in whatever area of poker you choose to get better and bring your game to another level, obviously I would'nt pull a Benyamine but doing it occaisonally can only help your game IMO.

[rjkdb8 1]

When you win the WSOP ME and the WPT Championship ME, then you can tell Joe he sucks. Till then, enjoy the rail.

Are you trying to say that Carlos Mortensen is the only person in the world that can criticize the play of Hachem?

[chgocubs99 0]

Are you trying to say that Carlos Mortensen is the only person in the world that can criticize the play of Hachem?

Anyone can criticize it, but he can just go home and take a bath with $100 bills and I'm sure he'd feel better.

[Jam-Fly 8]

I also think it's important to note that AA is alot easier to play than 53 in this situation. With AA you can happily get your chips in, it's likely your opp has a lower set, but if he has the 53 of 58, you've got outs. With 53, if your opponent has got the 85, your dead.So it all comes down to this, you gotta ask yourself "Does he have it?"You gotta know when to hold 'em,know when to fold 'em....

[KTW 0]

I like how "you" use "quotes"

A little birdie once told me they were better than BOLD for emphasis.

[potatoman 0]

I dont care how big my ego is, I'm not folded a straight on a non paired / non flushed board. IF he has a better straight then **** em. He gets my chips. I couldnt imagine not hellmuth calling the guy.

[RuntCake 0]

Hachem won the WSOP ME and the 5 Diamond...http://www.cardplayer.com/players/bio/Joseph-Hachem/15766Also, his read was that his opponent was EXTREMEMLY STRONG which he though he was considering who the hell calls an open raise with suited babies at that stage?Did the other guy show? I read reports that said he did and others that just say he said he had AA.And yes...Carlos is a good start, lol.

[Ex_Matt 0]

This fold is pretty badPokerStars Game #16976445024: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/04/25 - 02:41:22 (ET)Table 'Arenda' 6-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: Ex_Matt ($29.35 in chips) Seat 2: oldZappa ($50 in chips) Seat 3: Squeeky4711 ($68.05 in chips) Seat 4: Vismund ($53.15 in chips) Seat 5: richie0102 ($22.70 in chips) Seat 6: g_a_r_y_1968 ($32.80 in chips) g_a_r_y_1968: posts small blind $0.25Ex_Matt: posts big blind $0.50*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Ex_Matt [5c Jh]oldZappa: folds Squeeky4711: folds Vismund: folds richie0102: raises $1 to $1.50g_a_r_y_1968: folds Ex_Matt: calls $1*** FLOP *** [2s 5h Kh]Ex_Matt: bets $2richie0102: raises $2.50 to $4.50Ex_Matt: raises $4 to $8.50richie0102: raises $7.50 to $16Ex_Matt: raises $11.85 to $27.85 and is all-inrichie0102: folds Ex_Matt said, "LOL"Ex_Matt collected $33.50 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $35.25 | Rake $1.75 Board [2s 5h Kh]Seat 1: Ex_Matt (big blind) collected ($33.50)Seat 2: oldZappa folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: Squeeky4711 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: Vismund folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: richie0102 (button) folded on the FlopSeat 6: g_a_r_y_1968 (small blind) folded before Flop

[hegland 0]

Haha, 8-5. That was indeed a bizarre fold.