What Should Bush Do About China?

[BigLebowski 0]

Why is it most people, Americans in particular, will eat nearly any animal, but can't fathom eating cat or dog?

[Doug 0]

Finally someon who understands the danger of China holding so much of our debt. Fact is, they don't like us very much so it wouldn't take an awful lot for them to decide to call that debt in. After all if you destroy your competition then that leaves you as the big fish in the big pool doesn't it? Plus they might just still be pissed off about our support of Taiwan. That's why we really don't get a great deal of the countries in the world. We think they're going to act just like us and do things according to their national interests. We just don't understand that in some countries, ideology trumps national interest. Just look at North Korea for an example.

You do understand this would badly damage China too.North Korea is also run by a dictator, ideology does not triumph anything here it's just a military state pretty much.IMO this thread is just a few bitter Americans complaining because they are not/or deceasing as the worlds superpower anymore after being it for so long.

[Nimue1995 1]

You do understand this would badly damage China too.North Korea is also run by a dictator, ideology does not triumph anything here it's just a military state pretty much.IMO this thread is just a few bitter Americans complaining because they are not/or deceasing as the worlds superpower anymore after being it for so long.

Again this is western style thinking and doesn't necessarily equate to the thinking in the rest of the world. We seem to think everyone is like us and basing their decisions on solely economic conditions. That is not true. Again I chose North Korea not necessarily because of their ideology but because neither one has any reason to love the United States. In the conflict between China and the USSR even though both were our enemies, we chose to support the USSR's side of things. And in North Korea, we supported the South where China supported and continues to support the North. In the contention over Taiwan, we again supported Taiwan against China. China has no reason to believe we'll support them in any conflict involving them and another country simply because of our past history. And China certainly has reason to dislike and distrust the U.S. You seem to think that if the U.S. fails that the vacumn left will remain unfilled. What I see is China gearing up to step in and fill that vacumn as soon as it happens. And part of the plan would possibly be buying up U.S. debt. Don't kid yourself about the niceities between China and the U.S. at the moment. They are still a hostile power and a hostile power that is growing in influence and power while we are mired down in our conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. We would do well to pay attention to what's happening further east as well as what's happening in the Middle East.

[timwakefield 68]

[Loismustdie 0]

Again this is western style thinking and doesn't necessarily equate to the thinking in the rest of the world. We seem to think everyone is like us and basing their decisions on solely economic conditions. That is not true. Again I chose North Korea not necessarily because of their ideology but because neither one has any reason to love the United States. In the conflict between China and the USSR even though both were our enemies, we chose to support the USSR's side of things. And in North Korea, we supported the South where China supported and continues to support the North. In the contention over Taiwan, we again supported Taiwan against China. China has no reason to believe we'll support them in any conflict involving them and another country simply because of our past history. And China certainly has reason to dislike and distrust the U.S. You seem to think that if the U.S. fails that the vacumn left will remain unfilled. What I see is China gearing up to step in and fill that vacumn as soon as it happens. And part of the plan would possibly be buying up U.S. debt. Don't kid yourself about the niceities between China and the U.S. at the moment. They are still a hostile power and a hostile power that is growing in influence and power while we are mired down in our conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. We would do well to pay attention to what's happening further east as well as what's happening in the Middle East.

By "western style" I can only assume you mean intelligent. Think. Please.

[BigLebowski 0]

By "western style" I can only assume you mean intelligent. Think. Please.

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that was her point. Not all countries use intelligence when determining their foreign policy. Zing!!North Korea is willing to starve it's citizens and keep them in the 19th century to make what they think is an intelligent statement.edit: As I've said before....it is a non-zero chance China would try to screw us, but not as high as 1%.

[Nimue1995 1]

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that was her point. Not all countries use intelligence when determining their foreign policy. Zing!!North Korea is willing to starve it's citizens and keep them in the 19th century to make what they think is an intelligent statement.

Thank you BL for understanding. And I'd say intelligent by our standards of intelligence though starving people in my opinion is never intelligent. But still we've seen before countries willing to cut off their nose to spite their face in order to try to take us down. What makes us so arrogant as to think that all countries and their leaders are going to be rational.

[Franchise632 0]

edit: As I've said before....it is a non-zero chance China would try to screw us, but not as high as 1%.

You think there is no possibility that China would mess with us? Are you serious? China is the biggest threat to this country. They have an army that has more soilders than we have citizens in this country. At some point China is gonna come knocking simply for the fact that they are going to become desperate for natural resources. They have more then a billion people in China and they are going to need a place to where they have more access to fertile farm land, fresh water, and other resources. Not to mention that based on eugenics China is going to have a 10 to 1 male to female ration in the coming years and that is bad news. Pissed off, hungry and pent up soliders....maybe not bad for us, but it could be very bad for someone else.

[Dareiko 0]

He has enough issues....doing nothing is a good option at this time.

Agreed with you and he shouldn't start something new leaving the world in another terrible dilemma.

[BigLebowski 0]

You think there is no possibility that China would mess with us? Are you serious? China is the biggest threat to this country. They have an army that has more soilders than we have citizens in this country. At some point China is gonna come knocking simply for the fact that they are going to become desperate for natural resources. They have more then a billion people in China and they are going to need a place to where they have more access to fertile farm land, fresh water, and other resources. Not to mention that based on eugenics China is going to have a 10 to 1 male to female ration in the coming years and that is bad news. Pissed off, hungry and pent up soliders....maybe not bad for us, but it could be very bad for someone else.

I guess that's my point. There is no doubt China is going to run into natural resource problems in the future as is all of SE Asia, Africa, Europe, North American, and South America....did I miss anyone? I just read today that India and Cambodia have cut off rice exports. Egypt already did that April 1st. Rice prices have doubled already THIS YEAR. If you think China would rather come to our soil (pun intended) for any resource they might need I think you are delusional. Their entire country, as well as ours, would be a nuclear wasteland before they got 1/10th of the way here. I see them going into Russia for their needs before they ever come calling on the US.I think the bottom line is the way the western world is living is simply not sustainable. Now we have HUUUGE countries such as India and China trying to become more westernized which is leading to massive amounts of consumption. Who in their right mind thinks this is not going to create a huge worldwide catastrophe?

[Nimue1995 1]

I guess that's my point. There is no doubt China is going to run into natural resource problems in the future as is all of SE Asia, Africa, Europe, North American, and South America....did I miss anyone? I just read today that India and Cambodia have cut off rice exports. Egypt already did that April 1st. Rice prices have doubled already THIS YEAR. If you think China would rather come to our soil (pun intended) for any resource they might need I think you are delusional. Their entire country, as well as ours, would be a nuclear wasteland before they got 1/10th of the way here. I see them going into Russia for their needs before they ever come calling on the US.I think the bottom line is the way the western world is living is simply not sustainable. Now we have HUUUGE countries such as India and China trying to become more westernized which is leading to massive amounts of consumption. Who in their right mind thinks this is not going to create a huge worldwide catastrophe?

Many many wars before have started over resource needs. It's ostrich thinking to believe that we're invulnerable.

[BigLebowski 0]

Many many wars before have started over resource needs. It's ostrich thinking to believe that we're invulnerable.

Sorry if I gave that impression. I don't think that for one second. I just think we are way down the list of China's, or anyone else's, options.

[Franchise632 0]

Sorry if I gave that impression. I don't think that for one second. I just think we are way down the list of China's, or anyone else's, options.

Of course you have that mindset, that is the way they have trained us to think. That we are some how this untouchable force. That may have been true in the past but we a stretched thin in so many ways that we are more vulnerable then the general public realizes. They way things have gone the past eight years, if one didn't know any better, you would think they were trying to make things this effed up.

[Nimue1995 1]

Of course you have that mindset, that is the way they have trained us to think. That we are some how this untouchable force. That may have been true in the past but we a stretched thin in so many ways that we are more vulnerable then the general public realizes. They way things have gone the past eight years, if one didn't know any better, you would think they were trying to make things this effed up.

I have to agree. My son-in-law who's in the army has talked to us for some time now about the lack of adequate training our troops have for going to Iraq and elsewhere. In fact, he's said on more than one occasion that on the tour he's about to embark on, he wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't get him killed.

[akoff 0]

They have an army that has more soilders than we have citizens in this country. At some point China is gonna come knocking simply for the fact that they are going to become desperate for natural resources.

How exactly would they get here, smuggle them into Mexico? LOL Yea they will be knocking on our door. They would never get to the mainland...It won't happen.

[kafkapoe 0]

Bush has already said he is not going to boycott the Olympics.Somebody in here said that Tibet has no national interest for us and they are correct. Sorry Tibet, Sorry Sudan...we cannot save you all.People seem to want it both ways. They want us to stand up for everyone's right to not be abused in the world but they also want us to not meddle in foreigners affairs.But look on the bright side for those of you obsessed with Bush and waking up in the middle of the night with a fever whispering his name into the dark...he will be gone soon enough and the dems will create national healthcare, end the iraq war, bridge the mental divide between the classes and races, and poop magical beans to end world hunger.Seriously though, the boycotts that the world will see in China are going to be huge and cause enough trouble for China's image and bring untold attention to the plight of human rights in China. I am guessing it will make Tianeman (too lazy to google correct spelling right now) Square look like a typical sunday brunch in Utah.

[Nimue1995 1]

Bush has already said he is not going to boycott the Olympics.Somebody in here said that Tibet has no national interest for us and they are correct. Sorry Tibet, Sorry Sudan...we cannot save you all.People seem to want it both ways. They want us to stand up for everyone's right to not be abused in the world but they also want us to not meddle in foreigners affairs.But look on the bright side for those of you obsessed with Bush and waking up in the middle of the night with a fever whispering his name into the dark...he will be gone soon enough and the dems will create national healthcare, end the iraq war, bridge the mental divide between the classes and races, and poop magical beans to end world hunger.Seriously though, the boycotts that the world will see in China are going to be huge and cause enough trouble for China's image and bring untold attention to the plight of human rights in China. I am guessing it will make Tianeman (too lazy to google correct spelling right now) Square look like a typical sunday brunch in Utah.

Absolutely true. So regardless of the rhetoric about how we went into Iraq because Sadaam was abusing his own people, it's not friggin' true. We went in there because someone thought it would be to our strategic advantage to have a country in the middle of the Middle East, full of oil, that would be friendly enough to U.S. causes to allow us to keep a base or 2 there. As we can see it was an abominable disaster and we have $3.50 gal. oil to show for it. What a sick joke.

[kafkapoe 0]

Absolutely true. So regardless of the rhetoric about how we went into Iraq because Sadaam was abusing his own people, it's not friggin' true. We went in there because someone thought it would be to our strategic advantage to have a country in the middle of the Middle East, full of oil, that would be friendly enough to U.S. causes to allow us to keep a base or 2 there. As we can see it was an abominable disaster and we have $3.50 gal. oil to show for it. What a sick joke.

Agreeances.BTW I am voting for Hillary lest you all start to label me a republican. I am an independent best described as a pro-personal freedom moderate.

[Balloon guy 158]

Agreeances.BTW I am voting for Hillary lest you all start to label me a republican. I am an independent best described as a pro-personal freedom moderate.

Do you always contradict yourself in one sentence?Hillary:

"We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society."

[kafkapoe 0]

Do you always contradict yourself in one sentence?Hillary:

I want to keep the focus on China here and not make this a Hillary thing. But I think strong personal freedom leads to a better society. So the concepts can work together without contradiction.

[Nimue1995 1]

Agreeances.BTW I am voting for Hillary lest you all start to label me a republican. I am an independent best described as a pro-personal freedom moderate.

I know you want to keep this on China but I have to ask anyway, why Hilary? I'm an Obama supporter in case you hadn't guessed. But basically I'm not happy with any of my choices,lol. But I guess I've not met too many Hilary supporters on this forum or any other that want to admit it so I'm wondering what she has to offer in your opinion?

[kafkapoe 0]

To me the choice is clear between Hillary and Obama.If I see a thread where that is being discussed in a logical and rational manner than I will partake.Otherwise I fear it is way too hot button so I seriously just wanted to limits my comments to China here with context.

[Doug 0]

To me the choice is clear between Hillary and Obama.If I see a thread where that is being discussed in a logical and rational manner than I will partake.Otherwise I fear it is way too hot button so I seriously just wanted to limits my comments to China here with context.

so is this +av or -av?