Its No Secret Mtt Play Is High Varience

[Tank4Daze 0]

out play "weaker" players?so,im primarily a cashgame player,and have showed a profit in any game ive ever played at any level wether stud/omaha/he/and other mixed games (mostly live,but very much online aswell)in 2008 ,or just before,i made a concerted effort to transition to and become more then a slight winner/break even mtt playeri started playing some 180 mans (all on stars btw) alot of 45 man turbos/and non and whatever large field mtt i could afford or have time for.i have since got my lifetime roi to 20% and my february for instance was 40% or something (and in my defense, everything since 2008 would be in that range if i didnt have freinds who believe in my game and stake me for the odd 109 or other big buy in MTT,which kills my roi when i dont cash.because my average tourny BI is 3 to 6 dollars)i attribute this jump in profit/sucess in mtt's to my willingness to accept the swings and bad beats of tourny poker(hard coming from a side action background)i.e. i am pushing alot more small edges for alot more chips,and putting that against more volume. im confident that the odds are in my favour with this line of thinking,and will play out in my favour over the long run.it gets much deeper as far as the concepts and lines i take during a tourny,but this post is already getting long.but if any fCP'er can make sense of this post i would be appreciative if they let me know if they think this is a proper mindset to be approaching this discipline of the game with,and any concepts that may have been a definging moment in ur tourny game,because i really want to take that next step and figure out how make it just playing tournys.or how the ones that do approach the gameheres my opr if any one cares to check it http://officialpokerrankings.com/pokerstar...E57733.html?t=2and can make something of the numbers and see/tell me what im doing wrong or right,and hopefully i can get some constructive responses on this,as its a topic that i think is integral to succes in tourny poker

[GeneralGeeWhiz 0]

impressive. I would say stick with what you're doing, maybe join cardrunners or another site.

[Tank4Daze 0]

impressive. I would say stick with what you're doing, maybe join cardrunners or another site.

stats are impressive?really?i thought better then average but nothing special,im trying to stick with it...but take it to that mext level and just tear sh!t up.if not might aswell move back to cashive never read a poker book or used a training site in my life,besides that any advice or thoughts on what was writtenid really like responses on that more so then my stats,i was just hoping to add them to maybe help some one spot some patterns or what not,and to back up the words with numbers,so to speakthx for reply GeneralEDIT: yr sig made me rub one *cough cough* i mean time out at my table...lol...wow im sick

[DelftDragons 0]

I enjoy playing a lot of MTT tournies as well.Although the strategy varies based on the hands I get in general I play fairly standard.Slow in the early stages for several reasons:-Blinds are not really worth stealing now-A lot of donks who will call with anything so bluffing could get you into serious trouble.-When you do hit a hand, more then enough donks around to pay you of.Middle stage.Attack the small stacks since out of desperation they go all-in a lot with mediocre hands.Pre-bubble and right afterVery aggressive since a lot of players just want to make the money and when playing these MTT only the top positions are really interesting to win cash.End stagePlay better then the rest and win

[cheesies 0]

Stack preservation and 'tournament life' are the most misapplied concepts in tournament poker. You should indeed be pushing every edge - it seems like you're off to a good start. Keep it up and the result will follow

[copernicus 0]

At the pro level I think you'll still find a lot of debate between preservation and accumulation. At normal internet play I think accumulation is more profitable because the play is so bad in the mid blind levels that any thinking player should have an edge as long as he isnt in pushbot mode.However, imo the "right answer" lies in pot control. If you continually try to ride 55:45 edges for your entire stack you aren't going to be successful. If you turn very many of them away you arent goint to be successful either. Keep pots small and chip up more often than you chip down with those small edges, establish a tight image early, and don't play for stacks without a substantial edge.Also keep variance in mind. If youre a 4.5:1 dog getting 5:1 odds, (barring stack/prize considerations) you may very well walk away from it in a tourney when youd be crazy to in a cash game. The small positive cEV may not be worth the risk with such a high probability of being crippled/busted.

[cheesies 0]

I know there are a lot of opinions on this, but imo, knowingly passing up any cEV edge (when cEV=$EV) is a mistake. But I agree, actively pushing tiny edges for huge amounts of chips isnt the way to go either. Chipping up slowly but surely is good

[Tank4Daze 0]

appreciate all the responses all,thank you.i agree with alot of the opinions expressed,me personally tho,ive come to realize (IMO ofcourse lol) its better to push small edges.and put that up against more volume (seems to be a wining formula)i do agree that making percentage plays for your tourny life is not a good idea, when talking about a tiny edges,for a massive amount of chips,but show me im 55/45 or better and ill take it!!one more thing,all this talk about playing super tight early,thats the one consensus in mtt play theory i disagree with,early im trying to see as money flops as possible,flop somethin huge and crack someone who ,i.e. limped with ak hits an k69 board and jus cant let it go...there more of these guys early then later.thats why i limp 69 and ish right off the bat,so that i have a chance to catch these guys instead of someone else

[copernicus 0]

one more thing,all this talk about playing super tight early,thats the one consensus in mtt play theory i disagree with,

I dont think youll find that advice very often for MTTs, just SnGs.

[Tank4Daze 0]

I dont think youll find that advice very often for MTTs, just SnGs.

i hear it for both all the time

[Tank4Daze 0]

altho im russian,so maybe im jus hearing that,while their actully asking about the best method to boil a potatoEDIT: lol jk,altho i actually do hear that theory used alot in mtt advice i hear/read

[Vtlaxer09 4]

i hear it for both all the time

I play a shit ton of mtt's.... a shit ton... almost entirely on full tilt.I do ok... but yes, the variance can be really sick. I can play my absolute best poker for a week and be -2,000$ maybe more... just with how many buy ins im playing. Sure, I get the occasional decent score, but usually its just offsetting hte past 2 weeks of buy ins.Keys to being a succesful mtt player imo.1. get pokerxfactor (www.pokerxfactor.com)2. browse pkt 5's and 2pt tourney strat forums3. experience4. patience5. not tilting.(in no particular order)

[Tank4Daze 0]

I play a shit ton of mtt's.... a shit ton... almost entirely on full tilt.I do ok... but yes, the variance can be really sick. I can play my absolute best poker for a week and be -2,000$ maybe more... just with how many buy ins im playing. Sure, I get the occasional decent score, but usually its just offsetting hte past 2 weeks of buy ins.Keys to being a succesful mtt player imo.1. get pokerxfactor (www.pokerxfactor.com)2. browse pkt 5's and 2pt tourney strat forums3. experience4. patience5. not tilting.(in no particular order)

im actually a fan of ur play,thx for responding,ive watched and learned from u,when i see a rail call for yaand as for the list,check for all 5 except number 1i also am a winning tourny player,but like u said,often the scores are jus recouping losses with a tad of profit,keeping my roi in the positive,but not "balling" so to speakthats why i play cash games,thats where my "cashout" money comes from.but the thing is i know i play mtt's well enough to be beating them for large sums.i cash all the time and either lose flips in key spots or get coolered,either or prevents me from getting over that final hump mos times(throw in the odd donk play or w/e) btw not complaining,i know its the nature of this beast.but my numbers show me its just a matter of time till i hit a real score(i hope/correct me if im wrong pls)just getting frustrated waiting for my big score to come along

[copernicus 0]

im actually a fan of ur play,thx for responding,ive watched and learned from u,when i see a rail call for yaand as for the list,check for all 5 except number 1i also am a winning tourny player,but like u said,often the scores are jus recouping losses with a tad of profit,keeping my roi in the positive,but not "balling" so to speakthats why i play cash games,thats where my "cashout" money comes from.but the thing is i know i play mtt's well enough to be beating them for large sums.i cash all the time and either lose flips in key spots or get coolered,either or prevents me from getting over that final hump mos times(throw in the odd donk play or w/e) btw not complaining,i know its the nature of this beast.but my numbers show me its just a matter of time till i hit a real score(i hope/correct me if im wrong pls)just getting frustrated waiting for my big score to come along

pass up a few of those 55/45s for your whole stack and your results will improve.

[Tank4Daze 0]

pass up a few of those 55/45s for your whole stack and your results will improve.

u think so?the moment i accepted the varience for what it is,and embraced it and started pushing the tiniest of edges is the time when my results strarted improving,and have only gotten better sincecare to elaborate,or give me some specific hands/situations where folding a positive edge would work in my favour? and im not talking about 51/49s for my stack over aqnd over again.thx for response..hopefully u we can get some more interesting disscusion going on this matter(oh and btw those 55/45s are usualy for villians whole stack,this new style ive implemented either has me out early or with a big stack to be pushing those edges with.alot of what i do is based on playing stack sizes and position,vs others stacksizes/M and thier position) just thought id mentioni should have started posting way long ago,lol

[copernicus 0]

u think so?the moment i accepted the varience for what it is,and embraced it and started pushing the tiniest of edges is the time when my results strarted improving,and have only gotten better sincecare to elaborate,or give me some specific hands/situations where folding a positive edge would work in my favour? and im not talking about 51/49s for my stack over aqnd over again.thx for response..hopefully u we can get some more interesting disscusion going on this matter(oh and btw those 55/45s are usualy for villians whole stack,this new style ive implemented either has me out early or with a big stack to be pushing those edges with.alot of what i do is based on playing stack sizes and position,vs others stacksizes/M and thier position) just thought id mentioni should have started posting way long ago,lol

Playing for villains whole stack is fine, if its not your whole stack. Its simple math. Take 2 55/45 coinflips for your whole stack and youre out of 70% of the tourneys you enter, and youve quadrupled up in the 30% you survive. For that to be breakeven, quadrupling your stack as to increase your equity 3.33 x, which it doesnt, due to additional chips being worth less than earlier chips. 3 coin flips and youre out 85% of the time, with 8x the stack in the 15% you survive. 8x the stack would have to be an equity increase of about 6.5x...it isnt.After this thread started this morning I happened to read DNs strat post on small ball. A lot of what he said is the same as my first response here. He learns fast

[Tank4Daze 0]

Playing for villains whole stack is fine, if its not your whole stack. Its simple math. Take 2 55/45 coinflips for your whole stack and youre out of 70% of the tourneys you enter, and youve quadrupled up in the 30% you survive. For that to be breakeven, quadrupling your stack as to increase your equity 3.33 x, which it doesnt, due to additional chips being worth less than earlier chips. 3 coin flips and youre out 85% of the time, with 8x the stack in the 15% you survive. 8x the stack would have to be an equity increase of about 6.5x...it isnt.After this thread started this morning I happened to read DNs strat post on small ball. A lot of what he said is the same as my first response here. He learns fast

good post