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A Change In Beliefs


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I really dislike going on to an online forum to ask for ideas. Mostly that is probably because almost always I figure I know I'm not going to listen to any advice I don't like anyway, so asking for ideas would generally be an exercise in futility. But I'm kind of stuck here, so all help is appreciated.For any Christians who read this, let me make it clear I don't mean to insult anyone about their faith. I really am just looking for how to best handle this situation.I have grown up in a Christian (non-denominational) background. Starting from around 8th grade, I became more critical of the church I went to with my family for various reasons. So, I started going to a different church with one of my friends from school. Later when I started going to college, I found another church I seemed to click well with, so I started going there when I was at college, not at home. I also developed (at the time) more of an independent faith that was more than just a result of growing up in a Christian household. My parents were aware of this, and being Christian, they of course approved.For whatever reasons (I don't care to discuss them because that isn't the focus of the thread), a little over a year ago I crossed that line into non-belief. It was a somewhat gradual process over a few months, but I just don't believe anymore.Myself: While I no longer am a Christian, I haven't exactly become a Nihilist. I still have a strong interest in ethics in general (actually I'm going to be attending grad school in the fall for philosophy hoping to specialize within the realm of ethics if possible). I say this to try and emphasize that I guess not too much has changed about "me" and my personality except for the whole Christian-to-agnostic thing.My dad: He is a frequent church-goer who gets involved with lots of church activities. He isn't that intelligent in the sense that I cannot really speak rationally about Christianity with him. I think it would bother him a lot to know I no longer believe.My mom: She doesn't seem to be thrilled with the family church as much as my dad, but she still goes mostly. She is smarter than my dad by a lot, and I have tried to talk logically about Christian beliefs with her several times, with limited success in getting through (I never have let on yet that I just don't believe anymore). My mom is the parent I'm much closer with overall. She would also be bothered I think (maybe less than my dad, but I'm not sure) to know I am not a Christian anymore.I really don't know how much of the information I shared is relevant to my question, but I am just trying to give any information that might help yield some good advice. So my question is basically, how do I break this news to them in a way that will cause the least amount of...I dunno, uncomfortableness? Would it maybe be better to continue to "lie" about my beliefs? Like I said before, I hate asking for advice on a forum like this, but I'm kind of stuck.Thanks for any help you guys can provide.

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This is going to sound flip, but it isn't. Tell them you're all grown up and don't believe in Santa any more.Pretty much what I told my grandfather, who loves him some Jesus.This only applies if your parents understand that you are an intelligent, strong and good man who doesn't suffer fools lightly and isn't afraid of being honest with the people you love.If you don't like this idea, soften the blow by saying, "I'm going to prison because I 'love children too much', as the judge calls it." Then say you're, "just kidding, but I am agnostic now. I'm going out to lunch, want me to bring you something?"

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um... well, basically, I think you need to answer the question of why you want to tell them, what is your purpose in telling them. If you want to do it, to have like an open and more honest relationship with your parents, that's fine, I suppose. But, honestly, do they really need to know?I can say for myself, that I have never, ever told my mom that I am a skeptic. Never, not once. Because she has mental health ( bipolar) issues and an intense belief in Jesus and the bible, and that if you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to hell. It would cause my mother insane amounts of grief and worry if she thought i was going to hell. It could literally kill her. She worries obsessively about things like that i might have high blood pressure( which i don't), and that would be a drop in the bucket compared to hell, the fear of which is extremely real to her. I have no good reason to tell my mom I don't beleve in the divinity of Jesus that comes close to outweighing the pain that the admission would cause her. So I lie. And if she wants me to come to church for easter or xmas or what ever, I do and I smile, and I keep my mouth shut. Because telling her would be extremely selfish of me.My dad is a mason, and I think he's a closet Diest, though he would never say so to my mom. Me and Dad never talk about religion much, but he's a bright guy, I'm sure he has an idea of my beliefs, but he keeps his opinions and comments to himself.

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um... well, basically, I think you need to answer the question of why you want to tell them, what is your purpose in telling them. If you want to do it, to have like an open and more honest relationship with your parents, that's fine, I suppose. But, honestly, do they really need to know?I can say for myself, that I have never, ever told my mom that I am a skeptic. Never, not once. Because she has mental health ( bipolar) issues and an intense belief in Jesus and the bible, and that if you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to hell. It would cause my mother insane amounts of grief and worry if she thought i was going to hell. It could literally kill her. She worries obsessively about things like that i might have high blood pressure( which i don't), and that would be a drop in the bucket compared to hell, the fear of which is extremely real to her. I have no good reason to tell my mom I don't beleve in the divinity of Jesus that comes close to outweighing the pain that the admission would cause her. So I lie. And if she wants me to come to church for easter or xmas or what ever, I do and I smile, and I keep my mouth shut. Because telling her would be extremely selfish of me.My dad is a mason, and I think he's a closet Diest, though he would never say so to my mom. Me and Dad never talk about religion much, but he's a bright guy, I'm sure he has an idea of my beliefs, but he keeps his opinions and comments to himself.
The bolded question is really what has made me keep my mouth shut up until now. They certainly don't "need" to know. I'm just not sure how much I'm supposed to "put up" with just to avoid upsetting them I guess. What you are doing for your mom is admirable for sure, mostly because of her mental health issues. I would do the same thing. Neither of my parents have mental health issues though, so I guess I see it as less clear as to what I should do. The "grief" issue you bring up with your mom is something I'm not sure about in my case. I really don't know how upset me telling my own parents would make them, since I haven't ever done this before. (For the record, I was a pretty "good" kid in high school, never having any issues with drugs or even alcohol so I haven't ever really "shocked" them before.)On the other hand, during breaks I still live with my parents (I didn't say before that I am still in undergrad school right now and will just be going on without any extended break to grad school next semester). It just seems weird to me that during the time I am staying at home I would be obligated to go to a church or something just to keep my parents in the dark about my change. In addition, I guess I just feel ingenuine in some ways with them now. Sometimes we might talk about an issue I might have with something, and then my mom or dad (whomever I happen to be talking to) says I should pray about it. I don't really know what to do with that anymore, because my base instinct to that comment is to say "Great, except that doesn't do anything to fix my problem."So I guess what I'm saying is that I understand your situation and concern that telling is being selfish in a way, but I don't know if I can parallel your situation to mine.Out of curiosity, if your mom was not mentally unstable and didn't suffer from such severe grief and worry issues, would you still keep up the charade for her benefit?
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So I guess what I'm saying is that I understand your situation and concern that telling is being selfish in a way, but I don't know if I can parallel your situation to mine.Out of curiosity, if your mom was not mentally unstable and didn't suffer from such severe grief and worry issues, would you still keep up the charade for her benefit?
Well, I'd put the question down to two things. Would they worry about my soul ( and would this worry cause them suffering). If yes, then I wouldn't, if no, then I'd go to this question..Would telling them be more or less hassle than not telling them. IE Would i get harassed by them all the time, giving me prayer tracks, trying to guilt me into coming back to the church, etc, etc. If i'd get undo hastle for my beliefs, then I just wouldn't say anything, because really there's no great benefit for me in telling them. However, if they made me go to church every sunday, and do other religious activities, and by telling them I could get out of those hassles, then I probably would. I guess, I would do a cost/ benefit analysis. What do I stand to gain in telling them vs what it will cost me in telling them.
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Myself: While I no longer am a Christian, I haven't exactly become a Nihilist. I still have a strong interest in ethics in general.
But that's unpossible. Christians have a monopoly on moral behavior...if you don't believe in God, how can you still be a good person?All terrible jokes aside, don't tell them if it will cause them a ton of pain that can't be taken away through reason and gradual understanding. It's just not worth it. Take your ocassional appeasement (sp) time in church to think about...whatever. Think of it as meditation time.edit: to clarify, the terrible joke was mine...not in reference to any...**** it, never mind. i'll just be ignored anyways.
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But that's unpossible. Christians have a monopoly on moral behavior...if you don't believe in God, how can you still be a good person?All terrible jokes aside, don't tell them if it will cause them a ton of pain that can't be taken away through reason and gradual understanding. It's just not worth it. Take your ocassional appeasement (sp) time in church to think about...whatever. Think of it as meditation time.edit: to clarify, the terrible joke was mine...not in reference to any...**** it, never mind. i'll just be ignored anyways.
Surprisingly enough I've been through this with my parents. I was raised Mormon but long about the age of 14 or so, I started questioning the Mormon faith. Enough so that by the time I reached high school I was living a double life so to speak. But then I was also doing a lot of other things that were pretty counter to the Mormon teachings. Anyway, I did get caught out eventually and it was much worse than if I'd just told them in the first place I think. Because they believed I'd been lying to them all along. But to make the other side of the case, they then started sending missionaries and relief society ladies etc to my house whereever I went. Finally I went to the Mormon bishop in the area (long after I was grown and married) and asked to be excommunicated. BUT I have never told any of my family that I was officially excommunicated at my request. Because that would cause them untold grief and is just not necessary. I now don't have the Mormon guys calling me up every where I move to and my parents went to their grave believing that I was a fallen Mormon that was somehow a Christian. I don't know that this is much help to you except if there were a chance your parents would find out that perhaps you're not living according to their church's teachings then it would definitely be better to tell them first. Otherwise I think keeping quiet might be the kindest thing you can do. Sorry to all those Christians that think I should take this opportunity to try to bring him back to the fold but it would be a useless exercise in my opinion. If God has His hand on him, then God will provide the time and season for it to occur, not me.
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But that's unpossible. Christians have a monopoly on moral behavior...if you don't believe in God, how can you still be a good person?
I know it's just a joke, but I'll respond to it anyway just because you said you'd be ignored and I'm such a rebel.I intentionally avoided saying I was "still a good person" in my OP because I don't actually believe it to be true. One of the non-negotiable traits of a good person is, in my opinion, that he/she takes action to do things that he/she firmly believes are right. I don't fit into that category. Though that wouldn't be any different than if I was still a Christian I suppose.Anyway, in the event that I assess it is best to tell them the actual truth (not via Lois's idea), anybody have any suggestions as to how best to go about it? Like would it be best to try and talk to one parent about it individually first or just spring it on both of them at the same time? Plan a time to do it or wait for some good opportunity (I can't think of an example off the top of my head) somewhere along the line to present itself?I agree with the suggestion of cost-benefit analysis, but since I have never broken news like this to my parents before (which may possibly be crushing but I'm just not sure) I really don't know how to accurately assess this situation in those terms. I guess I was kind of hoping other people here may have had similar situations and I was interested in how they chose to break the news and what kind of positive or negative reactions they got based on their method.
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Sorry to all those Christians that think I should take this opportunity to try to bring him back to the fold but it would be a useless exercise in my opinion.
Thanks for this. You're right that it would be a pointless exercise, and I appreciate you sticking to addressing my question.
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My Dad is a preacher so it was very hard emotionally for me to tell them, but the oppurtunity came quite easily. I mean I had been an un-believer for a couple of years at the time but when I was 16 I told my sister and she told me to stop partaking in the sacraments of the church. I still went to church but stoped taking communion. Finally my parents sat me down and talked, it was a pain but totally worth it. They still talk to me about "coming back to the faith", but only like once a year or so. However once you are not living with your parents the subject of faith may not come up as much. I mean it most likely would in my family because my parents would want to talk to me about my relationship with God if they thought I was still a believer, but I know many people who do not have much more than a casual religious belief, even if they do believe that Jesus is the Lord and Savior.Are topics of religion discussed regularly amoungst your family? Do they ask you about things such as your struggle with sin on a day to day basis? Do they confess to you their sins and ask for forgiveness when they have wronged you? Do they want you to do more with them than simply go to Church?

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can you say a little more about how your parents would probably react? like, have you said anything jarring to them in the past? how did they react then?lois's idea is probably a good one, purely practically speaking. however, and this is PURELY my personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt, i think that it's just as important for you to be able to talk to your parents about what you believe as it would be if you decided to start doing dudes or whatever. if you want to be completely open and honest with your parents and you don't have a fear of them disowning your or anything (whether it's just troubling them is something different--i'm personally of the opinion that if a parent isn't able to respect their child's grown-up decisions, then they're just not letting their kids be who they are, but i fully acknowledge that that's overly optimistic in some cases, and i don't mean it to sound judgmental of families that work differently, either), i think what you should do is sit down with them and talk to them about your personal ethics before and after your losing your faith. if you're able to focus on the fact that you're not going to interact with them any differently than before, that you're still going to love them and respect them and their faith, and act the same toward others in your life, it might go over a little easier.i might also say something to the effect of "i think it might be worse of me to try to live a falsely christian life when i could be doing what my heart tells me."i have hippie parents, though, so my understanding of parent-child relationships is a little skewed from the norm, i think.also, congrats on philosophy grad school! where are you going? who do you want to study? (memorize the latter answer and learn how to spew shit at length about it, because you'll be asked that by pretty much everyone you meet for the first three months, lol)

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I really dislike going on to an online forum to ask for ideas. Mostly that is probably because almost always I figure I know I'm not going to listen to any advice I don't like anyway, so asking for ideas would generally be an exercise in futility. But I'm kind of stuck here, so all help is appreciated.For any Christians who read this, let me make it clear I don't mean to insult anyone about their faith. I really am just looking for how to best handle this situation.I have grown up in a Christian (non-denominational) background. Starting from around 8th grade, I became more critical of the church I went to with my family for various reasons. So, I started going to a different church with one of my friends from school. Later when I started going to college, I found another church I seemed to click well with, so I started going there when I was at college, not at home. I also developed (at the time) more of an independent faith that was more than just a result of growing up in a Christian household. My parents were aware of this, and being Christian, they of course approved.For whatever reasons (I don't care to discuss them because that isn't the focus of the thread), a little over a year ago I crossed that line into non-belief. It was a somewhat gradual process over a few months, but I just don't believe anymore.Myself: While I no longer am a Christian, I haven't exactly become a Nihilist. I still have a strong interest in ethics in general (actually I'm going to be attending grad school in the fall for philosophy hoping to specialize within the realm of ethics if possible). I say this to try and emphasize that I guess not too much has changed about "me" and my personality except for the whole Christian-to-agnostic thing.My dad: He is a frequent church-goer who gets involved with lots of church activities. He isn't that intelligent in the sense that I cannot really speak rationally about Christianity with him. I think it would bother him a lot to know I no longer believe.My mom: She doesn't seem to be thrilled with the family church as much as my dad, but she still goes mostly. She is smarter than my dad by a lot, and I have tried to talk logically about Christian beliefs with her several times, with limited success in getting through (I never have let on yet that I just don't believe anymore). My mom is the parent I'm much closer with overall. She would also be bothered I think (maybe less than my dad, but I'm not sure) to know I am not a Christian anymore.I really don't know how much of the information I shared is relevant to my question, but I am just trying to give any information that might help yield some good advice. So my question is basically, how do I break this news to them in a way that will cause the least amount of...I dunno, uncomfortableness? Would it maybe be better to continue to "lie" about my beliefs? Like I said before, I hate asking for advice on a forum like this, but I'm kind of stuck.Thanks for any help you guys can provide.
First off... you are going to burn in hell forever and ever.Made ya look! HA ! JKDon't confuse ethics with religion. Being religious doesn't mean you are ethical and vice versa. I'm wondering...do you have to tell your parents at all? I mean... is religion a topic brought up all the time? Are you so 'non-christian' now that if someone wanted to pray at dinner time... you feel you cant participate and say "amen" to make your mom and dad sleep well at night?
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I do think it will be uncomfortable for you living a false life to your parents. And I'd tell them both together if you're going to tell them. My dad found me out before my mom and took every opportunity we were alone to try to convince me to come back to the Mormon fold. It was even more uncomfortable than it was before. So to me it would be better to tell them both at once and get it over with. That said, I'd look for an opportunity that comes naturally without a whole bunch of other people around in the house. I think you'll recognize it when it comes along. Go over in your mind how you'd like to approach it. Perhaps tell them that for some time you've had doubts about your faith and God. And as time has gone on those doubts have come to a point that you feel you can no longer in truth say that you're a believer. They'll try to get you back of course. Expect that. But if they realize that this is a change that has taken place over time, perhaps they'll also come to the conclusion that all you need is some time to come back to God as well. However, they will be praying for you, you know :club:. It's just the way us believers are.

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Are topics of religion discussed regularly amoungst your family? Do they ask you about things such as your struggle with sin on a day to day basis? Do they confess to you their sins and ask for forgiveness when they have wronged you? Do they want you to do more with them than simply go to Church?
Not that regularly. We don't talk about "struggles with sin" or anything much like that. Even when I was a Christian I tended to talk about that kind of stuff more with Christian friends rather than my parents. No confession stuff really either.Hmm, more than just church? Not that much. One family practice that has been bothering me is that at meal times our family has taken turns praying for food. I've basically just been bullshitting my way through that since I stopped believing, and it just feels wrong to me that I have to fake my way through it just to keep my parents happy. I dunno.
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can you say a little more about how your parents would probably react? like, have you said anything jarring to them in the past? how did they react then?lois's idea is probably a good one, purely practically speaking. however, and this is PURELY my personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt, i think that it's just as important for you to be able to talk to your parents about what you believe as it would be if you decided to start doing dudes or whatever. if you want to be completely open and honest with your parents and you don't have a fear of them disowning your or anything (whether it's just troubling them is something different--i'm personally of the opinion that if a parent isn't able to respect their child's grown-up decisions, then they're just not letting their kids be who they are, but i fully acknowledge that that's overly optimistic in some cases, and i don't mean it to sound judgmental of families that work differently, either), i think what you should do is sit down with them and talk to them about your personal ethics before and after your losing your faith. if you're able to focus on the fact that you're not going to interact with them any differently than before, that you're still going to love them and respect them and their faith, and act the same toward others in your life, it might go over a little easier.i might also say something to the effect of "i think it might be worse of me to try to live a falsely christian life when i could be doing what my heart tells me."
No, I have never really shocked my parents with any huge news before. Never got a girl pregnant. No issues with drugs. Didn't even start drinking until college-ish. Never made any huge stupid purchases. Never crashed a family car. That's why I have so much trouble with the cost-benefit analysis here; I have no prior experience with sharing jarring info of this magnitude with them so I don't know how much trouble it will cause.I agree that I would like to be able to just be honest with my parents. If I was in McGee's situation, I'd do what he's doing, but this is different. My parents are completely mentally healthy. They are both somewhat smart, my mom moreso than my dad. It feels kind of patronizing to me to just lie to them, and I guess I would prefer not to have to if I could.My parents will not disown me through this decision, and I just am not sure how much they'd try to change me back. They have been pretty supportive and caring over the years (especially my mom), so I have a hard time imagining that they would just turn on me hardcore for this. But I really don't know, since I've never shocked them hugely before. Seriously, I am giving real consideration to all three options laid out in this thread (continue to lie, tell them the truth, Lois's deceptive way) because I am really at a loss of what to do here.
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also, congrats on philosophy grad school! where are you going? who do you want to study? (memorize the latter answer and learn how to spew shit at length about it, because you'll be asked that by pretty much everyone you meet for the first three months, lol)
Don't know where I'm going yet. Thanks to medicre grades (I screwed up big my first couple years in college) and only "okay" GRE scores, I have a limited selection though. So far I've been accepted to two schools, rejected by four, and I'm waiting on hearing from another five. If I don't get in anywhere else, I'll probably be going to the University at Buffalo.The "who" question is interesting. I'm really interested in ethics moreso than the other aspects in philosophy, but I'm not in love with any really big old school names (which may partly explain why I tend to lean towards ethical pluralism). I like some more modern philosophers though. I'm a big fan of Peter Singer, if you are familiar with him. I'm not a Utilitarian, but he is so incredibly consistent in his beliefs that I have to respect him. I also admire that he seems to live what he preaches, currently giving I believe 25% of his income to organizations like Oxfam. My main interest in ethics is addressing issues like world poverty, the environment, animal rights.Do you have any big names in Philosophy that you really admired and enjoyed studying?
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I know it's just a joke, but I'll respond to it anyway just because you said you'd be ignored and I'm such a rebel.
Sweet! I respect the fact that you want to be honest and therefore a "good person"...I just don't know at what point it actually makes you a better person to tell a white lie for the sake of your loved ones even if it makes you uncomfortable.
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Not that regularly. We don't talk about "struggles with sin" or anything much like that. Even when I was a Christian I tended to talk about that kind of stuff more with Christian friends rather than my parents. No confession stuff really either.Hmm, more than just church? Not that much. One family practice that has been bothering me is that at meal times our family has taken turns praying for food. I've basically just been bullshitting my way through that since I stopped believing, and it just feels wrong to me that I have to fake my way through it just to keep my parents happy. I dunno.
Well... If you are trully set on no longer believing in Christ... you should not fake anything to the point that you are miserable or unhappy.However... we go through life not being 100% honest to our parents, friends and children in many ways.Santa Claus... the Easter Bunny,.... tooth fairey...etc etc.Are we 'lying'? I don't think so.Is it really necessary for you to bring this up to your parents if you are fairly certain it will upset them? I mean... do you feel the urge to climb to a roof top and tell the world "I am NOT a Christian. I do NOT belive Jesus died for my sins!"So is it more about professing your new "non-belief" or you being uncomfortable with the facade you feel you are presenting by participating in Christian rituals?
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Don't confuse ethics with religion. Being religious doesn't mean you are ethical and vice versa. I'm wondering...do you have to tell your parents at all? I mean... is religion a topic brought up all the time? Are you so 'non-christian' now that if someone wanted to pray at dinner time... you feel you cant participate and say "amen" to make your mom and dad sleep well at night?
I haven't at all confused the two, but it is somewhat common for people who are religious to do so, so I tried to address it briefly in my OP.I don't "have" to do anything. I do have reasons for wanting to though, like ones I've given above.
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Sweet! I respect the fact that you want to be honest and therefore a "good person"...I just don't know at what point it actually makes you a better person to tell a white lie for the sake of your loved ones even if it makes you uncomfortable.
I didn't quite mean being honest with my parents as the reason why I don't consider myself a "good person." I actually have very little moral qualms about lying if it can be justified in an ultimately ethical way, like perhaps lying in this case with my parentals. When I said I don't think I am a good person, I actually meant because there are a lot of other things in my life that I believe I should do because it is right, and I don't. This has nothing to do with anything I realize, just trying to clarify the confusion I apparently caused.
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Is it really necessary for you to bring this up to your parents if you are fairly certain it will upset them? I mean... do you feel the urge to climb to a roof top and tell the world "I am NOT a Christian. I do NOT belive Jesus died for my sins!"So is it more about professing your new "non-belief" or you being uncomfortable with the facade you feel you are presenting by participating in Christian rituals?
I think one of my main considerations in possibly telling them is that it seems wrong to have to fake this for their sake, just like I feel it would be wrong for me to insist that they fake being an agnostic so that I could be completely comfortable. There are also other things about my parents I don't agree with (more than just religion), but I would never insist that they pretend to hold certain views on those things either for my benefit. Plus, when it comes to lying to them, there's also the entire patronizing issue that I brought up in an earlier post.I don't care that much about "professing my new non-belief." I just don't feel that I should have to be so fake about this by pretending to be something I'm not.
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I think one of my main considerations in possibly telling them is that it seems wrong to have to fake this for their sake, just like I feel it would be wrong for me to insist that they fake being an agnostic so that I could be completely comfortable. There are also other things about my parents I don't agree with (more than just religion), but I would never insist that they pretend to hold certain views on those things either for my benefit. Plus, when it comes to lying to them, there's also the entire patronizing issue that I brought up in an earlier post.I don't care that much about "professing my new non-belief." I just don't feel that I should have to be so fake about this by pretending to be something I'm not.
I agree with you... in theory. However... I don't think it's necessary to tell your parents something that you know, I assume, would upset them.I smoked pot in college. No need to tell my grandmom this...knowing it would crush her.I'm not sure there is an answer that fits every aspect here. If it trully bothers you to the point you are uncomfortable...maybe you do tell them.I've participated in different rituals from Catholic to Wiccan... and it wasn't a real strain on me to do so...I didn't feel the need to say "Hey...I dont believe these drums are really going to call Manna". I just enjoyed them while it lasted.Good luck bro. Only you can know what to do here. My only advice is... be happy. Sounds simple...but so many people can't do it.
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