Lhe Challenge(?) Thread

[Dirtydutch 8]

6-Max, BB is loose-weak, but I'm not convinced he's the worst ever or anything, and my image, if anyone is paying attention, is extremely aggressive. Preflop: Hero is SB with 4, 43 folds, Button folds, Hero raises, BB callsFlop: (5 SB) 2, 3, 10(2 players)Hero bets, BB call.Turn: (2.5 BB) 9(2 players)Hero bets, BB callsRiver: (4.5 BB) 7(2 players)Hero...? Bet/fold? Check/Call? Am I stupid?

[RabidTortuga 0]

6-Max, BB is loose-weak, but I'm not convinced he's the worst ever or anything, and my image, if anyone is paying attention, is extremely aggressive. Preflop: Hero is SB with 4, 43 folds, Button folds, Hero raises, BB callsFlop: (5 SB) 2, 3, 10(2 players)Hero bets, BB call.Turn: (2.5 BB) 9(2 players)Hero bets, BB callsRiver: (4.5 BB) 7(2 players)Hero...? Bet/fold? Check/Call? Am I stupid?

My standard here is to c/c the river. There are so few hands that are (should, anyway) be calling the river that you beat, and plenty of hands he (should) bet/bluff with if you check the river, many of which you beat.Is he ever folding a better hand here?

[Dirtydutch 8]

I would guess less than never. I think he's never considering folding A-high, ever. I would imagine worse, even. When I'm betting, I'm betting because I don't want to lose value from a check behind.Edit: the more I think about it, I think this is an easy bet; I can't see this guy bluffing too often, in this spot.

[checkymcfold 0]

I would guess less than never. I think he's never considering folding A-high, ever. I would imagine worse, even. When I'm betting, I'm betting because I don't want to lose value from a check behind.Edit: the more I think about it, I think this is an easy bet; I can't see this guy bluffing too often, in this spot.

it's def a bet, imo. i think he has an ax gutterball, a 2, or a 3 here almost every time.

[Flushgarden 0]

6-Max, BB is loose-weak, but I'm not convinced he's the worst ever or anything, and my image, if anyone is paying attention, is extremely aggressive. Preflop: Hero is SB with 4, 43 folds, Button folds, Hero raises, BB callsFlop: (5 SB) 2, 3, 10(2 players)Hero bets, BB call.Turn: (2.5 BB) 9(2 players)Hero bets, BB callsRiver: (4.5 BB) 7(2 players)Hero...? Bet/fold? Check/Call? Am I stupid?

Normally I'd c/c...but what checky said is absolutely right, which makes me realize I probably miss a lot of value on the river.

[Flushgarden 0]

There is no justice in this world. I'm getting absolutely ass-raped by morons today.

[Abbaddabba 0]

800+200 today = 1,000BBs at 5/10 in the past 7 days. lolroggaments

[Flushgarden 0]

800+200 today = 1,000BBs at 5/10 in the past 7 days. lolroggaments

I must be doin it wrong. I've never come close to running that good.

[Flushgarden 0]

120 BB downswing in since last night. I feel like I'm playing well.I'm ****ing sick of my ****ing inlaws and their ****ing philippino channel on ****ing max volume all ****ing day every ****ing day.

[RabidTortuga 0]

it's def a bet, imo. i think he has an ax gutterball, a 2, or a 3 here almost every time.

This is probably a stakes-related point, but I'm so used to getting bluffed at by pretty much any hand I check to here, I think it's become a habit. I wonder what the 1/2 nits would call with if I bet?

[checkymcfold 0]

that whole "you make a pair with two random cards about half the time" thing is a total myth and needs to be revised.i do indeed make a pair about half the time playing HU.if you are playing me HU and hold two random cards, you make a pair about 2/3 of the time. if, however, i make a pair, then this probability goes up to 5/6, and the probability that your pair is higher than mine or that you hold 2p+ is approximately 9 in 10.lol obv i started off stuck 40BB to a donk hu today, but i won it back and finished +25BB on the day. nice, since i was playing higher than i usually do .

[Flushgarden 0]

I can't win anymore.

[Abbaddabba 0]

hmm... i thought i was getting crushed pretty badly, and it turns out i was down $5 at the tables.sick downswing.

[Flushgarden 0]

hmm... i thought i was getting crushed pretty badly, and it turns out i was down $5 at the tables.sick downswing.

Graph?

[Dirtydutch 8]

This is probably a stakes-related point, but I'm so used to getting bluffed at by pretty much any hand I check to here, I think it's become a habit. I wonder what the 1/2 nits would call with if I bet?

I think if anything, lower stakes make it more of a bet. Does anyone think that 1/2 players are more likely to bluff than even 2/4 or 3/6 players?It's more of a player read than it is a stakes thing, though; if he were completely unknown, I would say I'd be a lot more likely to bet into a micro player than the types of unrelenting LAGs in the midstakes games. But if I knew a particular micro player to be really tricky or aggressive, I'd be inclined to throw him a check. So without a specific read, in a stakes-typical game, I think this is usually a bet lower (2/4-), and maybe 50/50 between b/f and c/c at a higher level (2/4+)? Anyone think I'm wrong and have a specific reason?

[checkymcfold 0]

I think if anything, lower stakes make it more of a bet. Does anyone think that 1/2 players are more likely to bluff than even 2/4 or 3/6 players?It's more of a player read than it is a stakes thing, though; if he were completely unknown, I would say I'd be a lot more likely to bet into a micro player than the types of unrelenting LAGs in the midstakes games. But if I knew a particular micro player to be really tricky or aggressive, I'd be inclined to throw him a check. So without a specific read, in a stakes-typical game, I think this is usually a bet lower (2/4-), and maybe 50/50 between b/f and c/c at a higher level (2/4+)? Anyone think I'm wrong and have a specific reason?

fwiw, the more tight/passive a player is, the more likely i am to c/c here. the more ANYTHING ELSE they are, the more likely i am to valuetown the shit out of them. it has nothing to do with stakes. i played 5/10 and 10/20 today and the games were a whole lot better than they have been in weeks at 3/6.

[Dirtydutch 8]

fwiw, the more tight/passive a player is, the more likely i am to c/c here. the more ANYTHING ELSE they are, the more likely i am to valuetown the shit out of them. it has nothing to do with stakes. i played 5/10 and 10/20 today and the games were a whole lot better than they have been in weeks at 3/6.

Oh, I totally agree. I'm just saying, in response to the stakes thing, that as a general rule, I find the opposite of what he was saying to be true.

[Flushgarden 0]

There are some crazy games on stars tonight. Unfortunately I'm neck deep inside of variance's asshole right now.

[Dirtydutch 8]

...I'm neck deep inside of variance's asshole right now.

Dare I ask if this is breech presentation or conventional?

[Flushgarden 0]

Dare I ask if this is breech presentation or conventional?

Breech

[DinkDonk 1]

Going back to Dutch's 44 hand-At most lower stakes games I'm probably bet/folding pretty much always, unless the guy is bluffy, then its a c/c.As we move up in stakes, I think usually c/c is a bad line, because people recognize your line as one that is showing down really often or check raising . This means that they are unlikely to fire with their bluffs. I think that generally bet/calling is best against good aggressive players. You betting all 3 streets polarizes your range quite a bit more, because it takes out your middling showdownable hands and leaves only bluffs and hands strong enough to get 3 streets of value from. Sooooo, they are going to rebluff you a lot more to make you fold hands exactly like this one. Another thing which makes bet/calling more powerful is the fact that barely anybody waits till the river with their strong flopped hands to raise for value anymore. They will, however, wait till the river and bluff with a missed draw.It probably sounds spewy, but either b/c or b/f (if you don't think they're good enough to delayed bluff) pretty much always.

[Flushgarden 0]

I just went on a hell of an upswing came very close to getting everything back that I lost yesterday and earlier today....then I fell off a cliff again and lost 3242422 [pots in a row and its all gone again. I now find myself back in my sadness hole.

[Dirtydutch 8]

What the hell is the difference between a LAG and a LAGTAG?

[RabidTortuga 0]

I think if anything, lower stakes make it more of a bet. Does anyone think that 1/2 players are more likely to bluff than even 2/4 or 3/6 players?It's more of a player read than it is a stakes thing, though; if he were completely unknown, I would say I'd be a lot more likely to bet into a micro player than the types of unrelenting LAGs in the midstakes games. But if I knew a particular micro player to be really tricky or aggressive, I'd be inclined to throw him a check. So without a specific read, in a stakes-typical game, I think this is usually a bet lower (2/4-), and maybe 50/50 between b/f and c/c at a higher level (2/4+)? Anyone think I'm wrong and have a specific reason?

Can someone please break this hand down for me like I'm a poker retard and explain why the river bet is correct? I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around it, though I don't disagree. I get what you guys have said thus far about getting called by Ax, and being able to fold to a raise, but I'm having trouble understanding the full picture.Thanks.

[checkymcfold 0]

wtf lol(before you yell at pf limp, villain never raises, always calls pre--except to powerlimps, apparently--and is horrific postflop.)Stage #1073569162: Holdem Normal $2/$4 - 2008-09-14 14:46:32 (ET)Table: AMY'S AVE (Real Money) Seat #4 is the dealerSeat 4 - KENT6934 ($24.13 in chips)Seat 1 - CHECKYMCFOLD ($379.87 in chips)Seat 3 - DUSTIN13 ($32.75 in chips)CHECKYMCFOLD - Posts small blind $1DUSTIN13 - Posts big blind $2*** POCKET CARDS ***Dealt to CHECKYMCFOLD [6s 7h] KENT6934 - FoldsCHECKYMCFOLD - Calls $1DUSTIN13 - Folds*** SHOW DOWN ***CHECKYMCFOLD - Does not showCHECKYMCFOLD Collects $4 from main pot*** SUMMARY ***Total Pot($4)Seat 1: CHECKYMCFOLD (small blind) collected Total ($4) Seat 3: DUSTIN13 (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDSSeat 4: KENT6934 (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS