Lhe Challenge(?) Thread

[opie 0]

I'm pretty sure that I am supposed to get away from this, but where? Turn bet was made to see if villain after me would raise again.

I would probably play it the same. Looks like a cooler hand to me. I really don't like the button tagging along for all those flop and turn bets.But you said the turn bet was made to see if villain would raise you again. And he did. So how did that change how you played the hand? You bet to gain information, and got some information - what did you do with it?I like the flop cap - you are ahead of all but sets and 53 (which seems unlikely unless UTG limps in any 2 cards) and Aces (which we can mostly rule out due to no preflop raise). After turn raise, a set seems more likely, so slow down, which you did. So far, so good.Maybe you can fold the river? I don't know. The river is 2 bets back to you, and at your decision time you don't know that MP and UTG won't cap the river. This is a huge pot to throw away a decent hand, but it is hard to see what you beat, other than a bluff. Maybe MP has an 8 and UTG is bluffing - but for both of those to happen, it seems pretty unlikely. Peace,Opie

[SwolyswoND 1]

I'm pretty sure that I am supposed to get away from this, but where? Turn bet was made to see if villain after me would raise again. Preflop: (1.50 SB) Hero is UTG+1 with (10 players)UTG calls, Hero raises, MP calls, 4 folds, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG callsFlop: (9.50 SB) (4 players)UTG checks, Hero bets, MP raises, Button calls, UTG folds, Hero 3-bets, MP 4-bets, Button calls, Hero callsTurn: (10.75 BB) (3 players)Hero bets, MP raises, Button calls, Hero callsRiver: (16.75 BB) (3 players)Hero checks, MP bets, Button raises, Hero calls, MP calls(Rake: $0.20)

Flop 3bet is fine, but after he caps you need to c/c the turn and c/f the river when its two bets back to you. There are no draws on that flop that he will cap, you c/c the turn because he might've spazzed A8, but no one raises the river when they can't beat one pair.

[opie 0]

but no one raises the river when they can't beat one pair.

Yeah, you would think so, but that happened to me on-line on a similar hand just yesterday. I had a big pair (maybe Aces), someone turned a straight against me. There were lots of raises up to that point in the hand. I just called his river bet, but a third player who had been calling all along then raises the river after the board pairs on the river. The guy with the straight calls, and I fold. The raiser had called my 3-bet preflop with 34s and all he had by the river was a pair of 3's.That was at .50/$1 Rush poker at Full Tilt. Peace,Davep.s. Has anyone tried Rush. It is friggin' awesome. I'm getting in 300+ hands per hour at .50/$1 and I'm not even multitabling.

[SwolyswoND 1]

There's always one or two maniacs who will be the exception to the rule - but it happens nowhere near enough to justify the call, even in a mammoth pot.I'll never play Rush for LHE. Reads are too important in this game, IMO.

[Chet Chetterson 0]

Comments on any street welcome but main question for me is my river check looking for the c/r? Will I get enough bets here to get a c/r or did I need to lead out?Feral Cow PokerPokerStars Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.20 - 9 playersUTG+1: $6.07 (Hero)MP: $3.15 MP2: $2.02 HJ: $4.71 CO: $2.81 Button: $3.64 SB: $5.20 BB: $3.43 UTG: $12.08 Preflop: (1.50 SB) Hero is UTG+1 with (9 players)UTG folds, Hero raises, MP folds, MP2 3-bets, 5 folds, Hero callsFlop: (7.50 SB) (2 players)Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero callsTurn: (4.75 BB) (2 players)Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero callsRiver: (6.75 BB) (2 players)Hero checks, MP2 checks(Rake: $0.06)

[SwolyswoND 1]

You absolutely have to bet that river.What range of hands do you put villain on? It should be about 99+, AQ+. What does your range appear to be to villain? Probably broadways with a club, any PP, AT+. Now, think about what villain will do with the range of hands he has. 99-KK will just check behind the river, knowing that you can't possibly call with worse (because theres such a high chance of villain having the Ace, so no Hero will call PP anymore). These hands, however, probably have to call a river lead, since you COULD be bluffing a naked club or just the care card. Even if he for some reason does donk bet 99-KK on the river, he can't call your raise, so you don't win any extra with the c/r.Now with villain's Ax hands, it won't matter how you play it since you're chopping. However, going for the c/r also allows him to 3ball you the very few times he has the flush, and you have to pay him off. If you b/c the river, then you save one bet the times he has the flush.Bottom line is villain will call much wider on the river than he will bet. B/c AINEC.

[Danege 1]

Comments on any street welcome but main question for me is my river check looking for the c/r? Will I get enough bets here to get a c/r or did I need to lead out?Feral Cow PokerPokerStars Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.20 - 9 playersUTG+1: $6.07 (Hero)MP: $3.15 MP2: $2.02 HJ: $4.71 CO: $2.81 Button: $3.64 SB: $5.20 BB: $3.43 UTG: $12.08 Preflop: (1.50 SB) Hero is UTG+1 with (9 players)UTG folds, Hero raises, MP folds, MP2 3-bets, 5 folds, Hero callsFlop: (7.50 SB) (2 players)Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero callsTurn: (4.75 BB) (2 players)Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero callsRiver: (6.75 BB) (2 players)Hero checks, MP2 checks(Rake: $0.06)

Cap preflop. Bet the flop, bet the turn, bet the river. Call down if raised on any street. If you get raised on this turn and get this river, donkbet the river because villians will check back pairs and such but won't fold them to a donkbet.As played, you HAVE to donkbet this river. Your hand looks SO much like A high that you'll get a lot of villians checking back hands like KK here. Especially passive villians at low levels.

[SwolyswoND 1]

I'm not capping PF when my EP open got 3bet from MP at a full ring table. Any value you MIGHT give up from doing so (which is kind of stretch against a range of {TT+, AQs, AK}) you make back up from deception.

[opie 0]

I bet that river.If you check, villain (with a big pair) often checks behind, which sucks. If he bets at it with a bluff, he'll fold to your c/r, so you get one more bet.If you bet, sometimes he folds, but sometimes he calls with a big pair figuring you might be bluffing.Now - to cap or not cap AK preflop - that's an interesting discussion. I've seen people be deceived by the 4 bet, putting the capper on a huge pair and folding to a flop c-bet (although presumably they aren't often folding big pairs). I'd also suggest that for the average .50/$1 on-line full ring player, Swoly's 3-bet range is a bit tight. I've seen plenty of AJs 3bets and KQ 3-bets, and 99, maybe an occasional mid pocket pair. The worst thing I've seen is a preflop cap, then a check of a J-high board, announcing to everyone "I have AK!!!". Just don't do that, whatever you do.Peace,Opie

[bbgun 0]

Villains seemed competent...obv I'm never folding, does anyone stop jamming here?PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comPreflop: Hero is BB with K, K2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero raises, Button calls, SB callsFlop: (6 SB) 7, 3, K(3 players)SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB callsTurn: (4.5 BB) 5(3 players)SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, SB caps, Hero calls, Button callsRiver: (16.5 BB) 8(3 players)SB bets, Hero ???Total pot: $(BB) | Rake: $1

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Villains seemed competent...obv I'm never folding, does anyone stop jamming here?PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comPreflop: Hero is BB with K, K2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero raises, Button calls, SB callsFlop: (6 SB) 7, 3, K (3 players)SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB callsTurn: (4.5 BB) 5 (3 players)SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, SB caps, Hero calls, Button callsRiver: (16.5 BB) 8 (3 players)SB bets, Hero ???Total pot: $(BB) | Rake: $1

On the River I raise for sure, if he has 64 that's just bad luck. I'll also cap it if he 3 bets especially if the player behind us is still calling and it's 3 way action. The reason that I would 4 bet the river is because it closes the betting. If he could still raise me again and I know the opponent isn't a maniac I wouldn't raise after he 3 bet me.If there were more combinations of straights that beat me I might not be as aggressive but in this case only the 64 beats us.

[SwolyswoND 1]

You're behind 64 and 64 only, which is 16 combos. You're ahead of 55/33/77, which is 18 combos by themselves, plus all the lawl two pairs that villain could do this with.Pretty standard raise/cap, I think. Villains never can slow down with a lower set here.

[Whatever 1]

69 turned the double gutter

[SwolyswoND 1]

Nobody caps a double gutter on the turn at $1/$2 LHE. If they do, then buddy list this guy ASAP because he just spewed majorly. His double gutter would have like 15% equity on the turn, no matter what Hero's hand is (once we 3bet turn, we always have at least TP)

[SwolyswoND 1]

River plan? B/f to get value from Kx? C/f hoping that two pair will check behind? C/c cuz we has TP?Feral Cow PokerFull Tilt Limit Hold'em $2/$4 - 5 playersButton: $64.00 SB: $36.00 BB: $46.00 UTG: $103.00 CO: $105.00 (Hero)Preflop: (1.50 SB) Hero is CO with (5 players)UTG folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB folds, BB callsFlop: (6.50 SB) (3 players)BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB foldsTurn: (4.25 BB) (2 players)Hero checks, Button bets, Hero callsRiver: (6.25 BB) (2 players)Hero ?(Rake: $1)

[opie 0]

Swoly,That's a scary board. I started to list possible hands that beat you and the list is long. Most Aces beat you (and you chop a couple more), any Q beats you (now that river was a T), and 2-pair seems quite possible. The good news is that the villain has to be putting you on the same range of hands.If you bet, you won't be getting value from K-x hands, since I think he might be scared of the straight and fold. You could use your river lead as a bluff (at having a Q or 2-pair), but I don't see him folding legitimate hands that he raised the turn with. I'm torn between a c/f and a c/c. I'm going to go with a check-fold. The only things you beat are a K and a bluff. Unless you have a read that he can make a play at a board like this, then I might go wtih a check/call to keep him honest.Peace,Opie

[bbgun 0]

On the River I raise for sure, if he has 64 that's just bad luck. I'll also cap it if he 3 bets especially if the player behind us is still calling and it's 3 way action. The reason that I would 4 bet the river is because it closes the betting. If he could still raise me again and I know the opponent isn't a maniac I wouldn't raise after he 3 bet me.If there were more combinations of straights that beat me I might not be as aggressive but in this case only the 64 beats us.

You're behind 64 and 64 only, which is 16 combos. You're ahead of 55/33/77, which is 18 combos by themselves, plus all the lawl two pairs that villain could do this with.Pretty standard raise/cap, I think. Villains never can slow down with a lower set here.

Guess I've just been getting coolered so much I start to see the monsters under the bed. I raised the river, button folded, SB 3-bet, I called and it was 5-5 for the turned set.

[opie 0]

I've been playing a lot of Full Tilt Rush poker (.50/$1 limit 9 handed). I've been enjoying it, although just barely beating breaking even. One aspect of it is that you basically have no reads at all off of opponents (except the few I have notes on, or unless you have PT3, but I have PT2). This means that you have to decide on a starting hand strategy and stick to it. I have a few starting hands charts from various books and a print out I keep by my computer from when I was learning the game several years ago. I think the game has changed in the past few years with players being much more aggressive, and Rush does play pretty tight, so I'm not sure of some of the marginal decisions in my starting charts. So I thought I'd make up a multiple choice quiz on the spots I'm starting to question, to get some other opinions.1. UTG raises and you are UTG+1 with KQo. A. fold B. call C. raise2. UTG raises and you are UTG+1 with AJs A. fold B. call C. raise3. Folds to you in MP with QJs A. fold B. call C. raise4. MP raises and you are button with 88 A. fold B. call C. raise5. MP raises, LP calls, SB folds, you are BB with Q7s A. fold B. call C. raise

[Balloon guy 158]

1. UTG raises and you are UTG+1 with KQo. A. fold B. call C. raise2. UTG raises and you are UTG+1 with AJs A. fold B. call C. raise3. Folds to you in MP with QJs A. fold B. call C. raise4. MP raises and you are button with 88 A. fold B. call C. raise5. MP raises, LP calls, SB folds, you are BB with Q7s A. fold B. call C. raise

These are my answers.I don't play rush poker though, even though it should be a natural for me

[bbgun 0]

I've been playing a lot of Full Tilt Rush poker (.50/$1 limit 9 handed). I've been enjoying it, although just barely beating breaking even. One aspect of it is that you basically have no reads at all off of opponents (except the few I have notes on, or unless you have PT3, but I have PT2). This means that you have to decide on a starting hand strategy and stick to it. I have a few starting hands charts from various books and a print out I keep by my computer from when I was learning the game several years ago. I think the game has changed in the past few years with players being much more aggressive, and Rush does play pretty tight, so I'm not sure of some of the marginal decisions in my starting charts. So I thought I'd make up a multiple choice quiz on the spots I'm starting to question, to get some other opinions.1. UTG raises and you are UTG+1 with KQo. A. fold B. call C. raise2. UTG raises and you are UTG+1 with AJs A. fold B. call C. raise3. Folds to you in MP with QJs A. fold B. call C. raise4. MP raises and you are button with 88 A. fold B. call C. raise5. MP raises, LP calls, SB folds, you are BB with Q7s A. fold B. call C. raise

That's how I would play it most of the time...interested to see how many I got "wrong."

[Balloon guy 158]

That's how I would play it most of the time...interested to see how many I got "wrong."

curious why you raise with 88 to a mp raise on the button?To price out the blinds?

[bbgun 0]

curious why you raise with 88 to a mp raise on the button?To price out the blinds?

Yep...of course keep in mind I only play 6-max and I know this quiz was designed for a 9-handed game.

[Balloon guy 158]

Yep

I tend to treat 9s and lower as set mines only, rather have 3 players in when I set it than only 1

[opie 0]

Guess I should have given my answers, although recently I've been changing them up to see if other choices play better. I tried to invent choices that would be easy ones given a read, but are hard without one.1. UTG raises and you are UTG+1 with KQo. A. fold B. call C. raiseI had been raising, but I kept missing flops and would eventually fold.2. UTG raises and you are UTG+1 with AJs A. fold B. call C. raiseI was raising, but would get callers of my 3 bet, and except for a few donkeys calling with mid to low pairs, no one would call with a worse hand than mine, meaning I had to really hit the flop hard.3. Folds to you in MP with QJs A. fold B. call C. raiseI think that is an easy one. Really I wanted to ask what you do in EP, but I had already asked 2 EP questions. I've started trying to limp this in EP with decent success. I just hate open limping since I've played a lot of 6-max. In MP, I think it is a raise in hopes of stealing the blinds, or at least just playing only against the blinds.4. MP raises and you are button with 88 A. fold B. call C. raiseI had been raising until a few days ago, to isolate against the villain. I'm a small favorite against 2 over cards, but villain often seems to have a bigger pair which has me crushed. And unless villain gets real passive, I don't see a good way to play this hand. On a flop with any face card and he bets into you, what do you do?5. MP raises, LP calls, SB folds, you are BB with Q7s A. fold B. call C. raiseI was in a similar situation with K5s yesterday, and flopped a K and (correctly) check folded the flop. After my check, EP had bet and MP had raised and there were no draws and I (correctly) put MP on a K with better kicker. I couldn't see what else he could raise with. But it really seemed weird folding top pair. Not asking for comments on that hand, but instead asking what you are looking to flop to continue with Q7s in the BB. I think I am hoping for a flush draw or top pair with my 7.

[opie 0]

4. MP raises and you are button with 88 A. fold B. call C. raiseI had been raising until a few days ago, to isolate against the villain. I'm a small favorite against 2 over cards, but villain often seems to have a bigger pair which has me crushed. And unless villain gets real passive, I don't see a good way to play this hand. On a flop with any face card and he bets into you, what do you do?

I just played a 20 minute session (100+ hands) and lost $5. I only won 3 out of 9 showdowns. But the exact situation above occurred. I had 77 on button and MP raised. I 3 bet. This strategy works GREAT when you flop a set! :-) Villain had AQ.